Team v Man Utd

[Francis Gibbs]

only 2 questions for me ....... Dempsey or Sig and whether Naughton is fit, although personally I would go for Verts at LB even if he was.

Friedel
Walker Caulker Gallas Verts
Dembele Sandro
Lennon Dempsey Bale
Defoe

also assume Adebayor still not fit

 

[Cavehillspur]

Id go:

Lloris
Walker Dawson Caulker Verts
Sandro Dembele
Lennon Dempsey Bale
Defoe (Ade instead if fit as he'd be more of a handful)

 

[talkshowhost86]

There's definitely an opportunity to control the midfield in this game looking at their options in midfield. Whilst they are all good players, they are not exceptional and if Sandro and Dembele can take the game by the scruff of the neck then that will be a good start.

Still think Defoe on his own will cause us problems though.

 

[DiamondLites]

We can get away with Defoe on his own up top a bit more away from home as we are able to play on the break more than at home where team park the bus against us. Not ideal, obviously, but it's all we have. Adebayor has really annoyed me with his behaviour over the summer tbh, of course he is in no sort of game shape after a 3 month holiday

I'd like Lloris to start in goal, his mobility and positivity will be needed but I expect Friedel to start. Dempsey in for Siggy, the rest more or less picks itself but I do hope Townsend gets decent game time I really like the look of him

 

[Jimmypearce7]

I think Friedel will start becasue OT would be a tough place to make your debut in the league.

 

[knowlespurs]

lloris
walker caulker dawson verts
lennon sandro dembele bale
dempsey
defoe

 

[sloth]

I re-watched the QPR match yesterday, and even took notes (I know, I know, I need to get a life!!!).

So first of all Friedel. In my view is he's over rated, but if that is the case why is it? My theory is that what he does well is often obvious, whereas his weaknesses are usually disguised. So i took a close look at the first half to see if I could find evidence of this.

In the first half he made two decent, diving, saves, the first from a good Clint Hill header after about 4 minutes. He should have saved it, and if he hadn't we'd have been annoyed, but it was still a good save. His second impressive save came from Hoilett's bit of skill on 13 minutes 20 secs in, which stemmed from Walker's error, a chest and then a cross goal volley from a tightish angle at waist height which Friedel palmed away mid-dive. Again it was the kind of skill which sets the pulse racing, but the save was not exceptional, despite the praise lavished on him by the commentators for making it. I should stress that they were both good saves, 7/10 type difficulty, 10/10 execution and he could have done nothing more than he did, so there should be no hint of criticism taken from what I write here.

So what's not to like? If we look at corners, of which I counted seven for QPR in the first half, the problem becomes clear.

1. At 4.15 Clint Hill's header came from a corner, this was a decent corner and Friedel was absolutely right to stay on his line, the ball was headed from 12 yards out and before the mid-point of the area. he made a good save. Hopefully every keeper would make the same choice there.

2. At 5.05 they took a poor corner.

3. At 12:10 they took a corner which Verts headed away from the six yard line. As the corner was taken Verts was standing right besides Friedel, Vertonghen moved after the corner was swung in and was able to head it clear. However the header was awkward, it looped to the edge of the area where QPR regained possession, renewed their attack, before it eventually fizzled out when they made an error. No harm done then, right? Certainly it would have been missed by the majority as a Friedel error. But if Vertonghen and Friedel are standing next to each other, and Vertonghen can get his head to it, sure Friedel should have been able to use his hands to catch it? By sticking to the line he invited continued pressure which could have led to a goal.

4. 14.06 a corner is swung in and it lands in the centre of the six yard box with Friedel rooted to his line, with all the obvious implications. This was commented on at the time, though it was not said that Friedel should have claimed it.

5. 23.38 Corner doesn't come into six yard box, no issue.

6. 31.00 Short corner.

7. 31.45 this is a carbon copy of the corner at 12.10. Vertonghen is standing beside Fridel as the ball is swung into the six yard box, the defender rather than the keeper hares from the line and manages to get his head on it, the ball loops up to the edge of the area, QPR regain possession Granero slips Zamora in and Friedel is beaten. What didn't happen at 12.10, or 14.06 did happen now, however Friedel seems to be blameless, if he does get criticised it's for a weak attempt at a save, but his part in the build up to the goal is not seen.

So no Friedel for me, and Lloris every time.

Other conclusions from the game are that Vertonghen is potentially the best left-back we have at the club, but would be wasted there long-term.

Lennon played really well. He imposed himself on the other side, was prepared to take them on successfully on at least four occasions, and was generally dynamic and aggressive, the player who's shown the biggest improvement since AVB's arrival.

Dempsey had a dreadful first-half, the worst player on the pitch. We'll give him a break because he'll need time to learn the system. I do worry however, when players are bought just after the best season of an already long career. People tend to say they're late bloomers, I fear regression to the mean. That said, he was better in the second half when he had a role which didn't require defensive discipline or for him to be involved in the midfield build up.

Finally it was noticeable that Dembele was pushing up on the opposing DM in the second half, when QPR were trying to build from the back, this caused them to often go back to Cesar who then kicked long meaning we regained possession more easily and in better positions.

So my team:

Lloris​

Walker Caulker Gallas Vertonghen​

Sandro​

Lennon Dembele Bale​

Dempsey​

Defoe​

 

[KingKay]

I re-watched the QPR match yesterday, and even took notes (I know, I know, I need to get a life!!!).

So first of all Friedel. In my view is he's over rated, but if that is the case why is it? My theory is that what he does well is often obvious, whereas his weaknesses are usually disguised. So i took a close look at the first half to see if I could find evidence of this.

In the first half he made two decent, diving, saves, the first from a good Clint Hill header after about 4 minutes. He should have saved it, and if he hadn't we'd have been annoyed, but it was still a good save. His second impressive save came from Hoilett's bit of skill on 13 minutes 20 secs in, which stemmed from Walker's error, a chest and then a cross goal volley from a tightish angle at waist height which Friedel palmed away mid-dive. Again it was the kind of skill which sets the pulse racing, but the save was not exceptional, despite the praise lavished on him by the commentators for making it. I should stress that they were both good saves, 7/10 type difficulty, 10/10 execution and he could have done nothing more than he did, so there should be no hint of criticism taken from what I write here.

So what's not to like? If we look at corners, of which I counted seven for QPR in the first half, the problem becomes clear.

1. At 4.15 Clint Hill's header came from a corner, this was a decent corner and Friedel was absolutely right to stay on his line, the ball was headed from 12 yards out and before the mid-point of the area. he made a good save. Hopefully every keeper would make the same choice there.

2. At 5.05 they took a poor corner.

3. At 12:10 they took a corner which Verts headed away from the six yard line. As the corner was taken Verts was standing right besides Friedel, Vertonghen moved after the corner was swung in and was able to head it clear. However the header was awkward, it looped to the edge of the area where QPR regained possession, renewed their attack, before it eventually fizzled out when they made an error. No harm done then, right? Certainly it would have been missed by the majority as a Friedel error. But if Vertonghen and Friedel are standing next to each other, and Vertonghen can get his head to it, sure Friedel should have been able to use his hands to catch it? By sticking to the line he invited continued pressure which could have led to a goal.

4. 14.06 a corner is swung in and it lands in the centre of the six yard box with Friedel rooted to his line, with all the obvious implications. This was commented on at the time, though it was not said that Friedel should have claimed it.

5. 23.38 Corner doesn't come into six yard box, no issue.

6. 31.00 Short corner.

7. 31.45 this is a carbon copy of the corner at 12.10. Vertonghen is standing beside Fridel as the ball is swung into the six yard box, the defender rather than the keeper hares from the line and manages to get his head on it, the ball loops up to the edge of the area, QPR regain possession Granero slips Zamora in and Friedel is beaten. What didn't happen at 12.10, or 14.06 did happen now, however Friedel seems to be blameless, if he does get criticised it's for a weak attempt at a save, but his part in the build up to the goal is not seen.

So no Friedel for me, and Lloris every time.

Other conclusions from the game are that Vertonghen is potentially the best left-back we have at the club, but would be wasted there long-term.

Lennon played really well. He imposed himself on the other side, was prepared to take them on successfully on at least four occasions, and was generally dynamic and aggressive, the player who's shown the biggest improvement since AVB's arrival.

Dempsey had a dreadful first-half, the worst player on the pitch. We'll give him a break because he'll need time to learn the system. I do worry however, when players are bought just after the best season of an already long career. People tend to say they're late bloomers, I fear regression to the mean. That said, he was better in the second half when he had a role which didn't require defensive discipline or for him to be involved in the midfield build up.

Finally it was noticeable that Dembele was pushing up on the opposing DM in the second half, when QPR were trying to build from the back, this caused them to often go back to Cesar who then kicked long meaning we regained possession more easily and in better positions.

So my team:

Lloris​

Walker Caulker Gallas Vertonghen​

Sandro​

Lennon Dembele Bale​

Dempsey​

Defoe​

A thorough analysis! I'd be interested to know why you think United away is the right time to give him his first league start though?

 

[sloth]

A thorough analysis! I'd be interested to know why you think United away is the right time to give him his first league start though?

I think his real baptism of fire will be against the Sunderlands, Stokes, Norwich's of this world. Teams that play football the traditional English way, taking advantage of the licence our referees give robust forward play. Against Utd we'll be playing a more cultured side, they won't be putting huge bombs into the box from deep. they won't have the single tactic of targetting the new boy in goal. They won't be trying to crowd the six yard area, and they don't have players schooled in the dark arts of "getting away with it".

Lloris has played in massive matches against the biggest teams in club and international football, in far bigger competitions than the PL, where the consequences of an error are more dire. I don't particularly worry about putting him in against Utd, but I do worry that Friedel's weakness in dealing with his six yard box will lead to more goals before he is replaced.

 

[Riandor]

A thorough analysis! I'd be interested to know why you think United away is the right time to give him his first league start though?

As I said i would consider starting him here as there is in some respects less pressure. It's Man Utd AND he has played them before in the CL and shone. It also adds to the overall speed and distribution of the team and if we play high tempo we have a good chance.

 

[theShiznit]

The thing is the longer the Friedel/Lloris decision is shelved the more it will become a press issue (which will eventually manifest in a real issue)

If Friedel plays again it will be "Lloris demands 'more' talks after further snub" (even if there have never been any talks)

If Friedel plays it will be "AVB caves in to player power and drops Spurs' best player" (which Friedel has seemingly become from making a few saves that any top flight keeper should have made.

The best keeper should play, if that is evidentally Lloris in training then that should be the only factor.

Brad has done well so far this season but i find the "kept us in it" comments laughable.

 

[bugsdad]

Would love to see Lloris play he is the future and a better keeper.
Trouble is AVB is on a hiding to nothing by picking him in this game.
If we lose as all the media are saying and Lloris is in goal AVB will be castigated.
Will he really take the risk? as a loss will give him the ideal chance to drop Brad for the next game, and avoid criscism.
Hope he has the balls to put Lloris in goal as in my opinion that will give us a better chance of getting a result, but I will understand the reasons why if he doesnt.

 

[Adam456]

Assuming that Adebayor and Naughton are out:

I agree with whoever said that Defoe would be more effective in this game compared to low prem opppostion as we'd be more likely to be hitting them on the break rather than them parking the bus. That said, most of the formations above ^^^ involve playing him ahead of Dempsey. One of Dempsey’s best attributes is breaking through the middle on to the ball but I'm really, really struggling with the idea of Defoe making bleep all contribution to holding on to the ball to relieve pressure but then also blasting high or wide from 25 yards when Dempsey is running through to help (ditto Bale or Lennon if they are far enough forward). For all of Defoe’s goalscoring he wastes 3-4 really good team chances per game by not looking up and picking out a much better placed team mate. The best midfielder to exploit his pace on the break is IMO Hudd as he’ll be able to find him with passes most easily but he won’t break through the middle like Dempsey will.

So, for me, I’m going a tiny bit too far out of the box for some of you but….considering the pace of Dembele, Bale, Lennon (and Sandro on the very odd occasion) and the likelihood of being out of possession so often I would go for this:

………………….Friedel
Walker…..Gallas…..Caulker…..Vert
……Sandro……Hudd….Dembele
Lennon………………………………..Bale
…………………Dempsey……………….

Won’t happen of course but I bet that, even if he scores, Defoe will waste a load of possession and chances and people will be talking after the game about how we can’t play him up front alone and when is Adebayor going to be fit blah blah

 

[Mikegold]

A thorough analysis! I'd be interested to know why you think United away is the right time to give him his first league start though?

I'd add to what he's already replied and just say because we're expected to lose. We really are. So him being the reason we lose won't be as bad to take as him being the reason we lose to Wigan etc. Also, as he's said, he's played quality like Man Utd who I think are easier to play then brutal english teams which seem to take keepers a while to adapt. They won't play 100s of balls into him etc.

 

[sloth]

Assuming that Adebayor and Naughton are out:

I agree with whoever said that Defoe would be more effective in this game compared to low prem opppostion as we'd be more likely to be hitting them on the break rather than them parking the bus. That said, most of the formations above ^^^ involve playing him ahead of Dempsey. One of Dempsey’s best attributes is breaking through the middle on to the ball but I'm really, really struggling with the idea of Defoe making bleep all contribution to holding on to the ball to relieve pressure but then also blasting high or wide from 25 yards when Dempsey is running through to help (ditto Bale or Lennon if they are far enough forward). For all of Defoe’s goalscoring he wastes 3-4 really good team chances per game by not looking up and picking out a much better placed team mate. The best midfielder to exploit his pace on the break is IMO Hudd as he’ll be able to find him with passes most easily but he won’t break through the middle like Dempsey will.

So, for me, I’m going a tiny bit too far out of the box for some of you but….considering the pace of Dembele, Bale, Lennon (and Sandro on the very odd occasion) and the likelihood of being out of possession so often I would go for this:

………………….Friedel
Walker…..Gallas…..Caulker…..Vert
……Sandro……Hudd….Dembele
Lennon………………………………..Bale
…………………Dempsey……………….

Won’t happen of course but I bet that, even if he scores, Defoe will waste a load of possession and chances and people will be talking after the game about how we can’t play him up front alone and when is Adebayor going to be fit blah blah

[Edit: not going to ask...]

 

[DJS]

I think going to Old Trafford we need to adjust the team to try and counter them.

It's a shame Parker isn't available as it would have been tempting to slot him alongside Sandro and Dembele to give us a more solid central midfield. We don't really have many other options like him at the moment - Huddlestone wouldn't be match-sharp enough and the Livermore / Sandro combo are a no-no.

Just wonder if against Man U whether we'd be better off with a more solid centre but there aren't the options at the mo.

Lloris

Walker Gallas Caulker Vertoghen

Sandro Dembele

Lennon Siggy Bale

Adebayor (if available)

 

[Riandor]

Assuming that Adebayor and Naughton are out:

I agree with whoever said that Defoe would be more effective in this game compared to low prem opppostion as we'd be more likely to be hitting them on the break rather than them parking the bus. That said, most of the formations above ^^^ involve playing him ahead of Dempsey. One of Dempsey’s best attributes is breaking through the middle on to the ball but I'm really, really struggling with the idea of Defoe making bleep all contribution to holding on to the ball to relieve pressure but then also blasting high or wide from 25 yards when Dempsey is running through to help (ditto Bale or Lennon if they are far enough forward). For all of Defoe’s goalscoring he wastes 3-4 really good team chances per game by not looking up and picking out a much better placed team mate. The best midfielder to exploit his pace on the break is IMO Hudd as he’ll be able to find him with passes most easily but he won’t break through the middle like Dempsey will.

Actually, despite me giving Defoe credit where it is due, i would say in this game i would prefer Adebayour if he was available.

Defoe has rarely if ever done well against top teams, for whatever reason, maybe it is purely because he doesn't get more than 1 or 2 chances and is thus "too wasteful" at that level or what, but history shows he bangs them in against the so called lesser sides and rarely scores against the top teams.

That being said, would be harsh to drop him based on history.

 

[ethanedwards]

I'd add to what he's already replied and just say because we're expected to lose. We really are. So him being the reason we lose won't be as bad to take as him being the reason we lose to Wigan etc. Also, as he's said, he's played quality like Man Utd who I think are easier to play then brutal english teams which seem to take keepers a while to adapt. They won't play 100s of balls into him etc.

Agree, as I said in another thread, why give the opposition an advantage by playing a weaker team.

 

[Leachie]

I think the keeper is the only 'decision' AVB has to make.

Friedel/Lloris
Walker Gallas Caulker Vertongan
Sandro Dembele
Lennon Defoe Bale

I have no problem with Big Brad staying in goal, but I'm a suspicious kind of bloke and think the only reason Lloris wouldn't have featured in the Crap-It-All 1 Cup is if AVB had plans for him on Saturday (not sub keeper).

I have to say when called into action against Lazio, I like what I saw...his movement, clean catches and distribution. I gues we'll find out come 5.00pmish on Saturday.

Alternative scenario...all 4 keepers in a room with AVB and Tony Parkes...AVB asks 'who wants to play in goal against Man U on saturday?' A lengthy silence then takes place. After 5 mins of nobody saying a word Brad Friedel asks 'Hugo?'. Lloris replies 'Non, non. You have been a great keeper. It should be you.' Brad, not convinced asks Gomes 'Hey Octopus, do you want to play in goal?', Gomes replies 'no, not me, Hugo'. Brad then turns to Cuducini 'Carlo? what about you?' Cuducini says 'Naaah, Hugo'. Brad turns to Parkes and AVB 'It looks like its unanimous, they all want me to go in goal'.

Way more confident than I am if you reckon we can beat Man U at OT with 10 men!

 

[THOWIG]

I'd shock them and play:

Friedel

Caulker
Gallas
Vertonghen(sweeper)

Lennon
Sandro
Dembele
Bale

Townsend
Dempsey
Defoe