Match Threads Spurs vs Arsenal

[Cambridge Spur]

They do, but not before they have an established style of playing and identity.

The major issue we have since Pochettino left is we have no identity.

Arsenal have an identity, Man C have an identity, Liverpool have an identity. They all have a signature way of playing. What do we have?

The only way you create an identity is through relentlessly pursuing that way of playing. Arsenal had some terrible results over the last four years. We all had a great laugh at them but they stuck to it. Now they can afford to mix things up a bit because they have an established way of playing. Whereas we lurch from one thing to the other because we don’t have the patience to see something out.

I certainly agree with some of what you’re saying but I have a far simplistic view of the game that perhaps others don’t. Are Arsenal, Liverpool, City etc where they are because of their identity and style of play or is it because the current managers were afforded sufficient funds to overhaul the quality of their teams? Personally I think it’s the latter. There is a fine line between good managers/teams and great managers/teams. I feel that there are various ways of winning football matches but ultimately if you have better players then you will have a better chance than others. For that reason I feel that we cannot take the approach of just playing a certain way until we are the perfect team. There needs to be a balance, we are not good enough to play as open and expansive as we do. We have had some atrocious performances and results of late. Will continuing to play that way reap the results we want because we are establishing an identity? Will Ange or any other manager be given 100m to spend on a CDM, or 75m on a CB? I seriously doubt it, for that reason any manager at Tottenham will need to cut their cloth accordingly.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I agree. Even in tonights game, Chelsea amazingly had more possession than Arsenal.

They will pick us off on the break like so many teams have done to us this season. Newcastle being the most recent example.

Credit where its due Arsenal have played more of a mid block at times this season after their initial 10-15min fast start blitz, then they've become solid after that, its why they have a real real chance of winning it this season, that being said they're still gettable, a poor Chelsea side could've scored a few against them the other night, if we start well we have a good chance with the crowd behind us.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

If they win the league they win the league. We need to worry about ourselves.

I just find some of the comments over the last few pages pretty pathetic. Adult men who can’t handle the idea of losing a match.

If we lose, we lose. If they win the league, they win the league. They won it once at our stadium and we got over it and became stronger in the following years.

Yea I mean they won the league at our ground whilst being unbeaten lol so we won't really experience any worse than that, its never nice seeing them win and still hope and pray they don't but the fact is they've won many league titles before and will probably win more in the future, the reason this one might sting a bit is because for a good while we had the better of them and were on an upward trajectory and we've let them get back up there ahead of us after no title for what 20 yrs?

Lets hope we beat them Sunday, that would be so so sweet.

As you say if not and if they win the league then we move on.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I certainly agree with some of what you’re saying but I have a far simplistic view of the game that perhaps others don’t. Are Arsenal, Liverpool, City etc where they are because of their identity and style of play or is it because the current managers were afforded sufficient funds to overhaul the quality of their teams? Personally I think it’s the latter. There is a fine line between good managers/teams and great managers/teams. I feel that there are various ways of winning football matches but ultimately if you have better players then you will have a better chance than others. For that reason I feel that we cannot take the approach of just playing a certain way until we are the perfect team. There needs to be a balance, we are not good enough to play as open and expansive as we do. We have had some atrocious performances and results of late. Will continuing to play that way reap the results we want because we are establishing an identity? Will Ange or any other manager be given 100m to spend on a CDM, or 75m on a CB? I seriously doubt it, for that reason any manager at Tottenham will need to cut their cloth accordingly.

I'd say that like most things in life, there are a number of factors at play and its too simplistic to say that they are where they are because of just one reason. Yes the players and squads they have are very good but the managers themselves are also very good, there have been a number of teams with lots of quality and star players who have been badly managed but if you get a top manager and let them build and mould a squad to their vision then usually given enough time and patience you get a decent outcome if that manager is top quality.

 

[Cambridge Spur]

I'd say that like most things in life, there are a number of factors at play and its too simplistic to say that they are where they are because of just one reason. Yes the players and squads they have are very good but the managers themselves are also very good, there have been a number of teams with lots of quality and star players who have been badly managed but if you get a top manager and let them build and mould a squad to their vision then usually given enough time and patience you get a decent outcome if that manager is top quality.

I certainly do not put success down to just one thing, hence my comments about fine lines. There are plenty of examples of managers looking world class at one club and then completely useless at another. I love Ange and don’t like bringing up previous managers but can you honestly say that Poch, Jose and Conte aren’t top quality managers? Ultimately it was their stubbornness and inflexibility that cost them with us. Which comes back to my point that if Ange or anyone else wants to be a success at Tottenham then they will need to be flexible in their approach.

 

[tony0379]

The fucking state of this place. Bunch of wet wipes.

"Oh Arsenal are so great they're going to batter us I hope we can keep it respectable."

Give your heads a wobble for fuck sake. Listen to our manager and how he speaks about the mentality and what needs to change. It's not just the club mentality, it's the fans too. Liverpool are absolute freaks but they have an unhinged belief in their team. So do Arsenal the last two seasons but they take it to weird levels in some respects.

Follow the managers belief. Get behind him and the team.

Damage limitation my arse. Itll be damage limitation for them on Sunday. Their GD is going to take a walloping.

"Nurse! Nurse!"

 

[Erm33]

Let's just take the game to them and try and win a game of football.

I'd much rather lose having gone toe to toe then lose trying to "contain" them.

Ultimately it comes down to individuals raising their game and the collective working together. We've been so bad recently as individually we've been poor which has stemmed from the collective team not working hard enough for each other both off and on the ball.

Let's hope Richarlison starts, and the rest of the team follows his lead in chasing down every ball. If we lose, so be it. But let's give them no time and no space to play in.

 

[thebenjamin]

Last 9 league games at home to Arsenal. W6. D2. L1. The loss was last year when we were a shambles.
What are we worrying about . They should be worrying, we can destroy their dreams.!!!

Then why am I terrified

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Then why am I terrified

Probably same reason as I am.

 

[SUIYHA]

They've only conceded in one of out their last six league games, whereas we've only kept one clean sheet in 15. On paper it doesn't look good for us, but here's my tactical twopence as to how we can get a result.

We've scored pretty much the same number of goals as them from open play this season. Where they've been much stronger than us (both offensively and defensively) is on set pieces. They play a high pressing, aggressive style that overloads the opposition - and so many of their big wins this season have come from taking the lead through a set-piece or by pressuring their opponent into making a mistake, then putting the chokehold on by continuing to press and overload while their opponent has to come out and try to score - leaving gaps and vulnerabilities that Arsenal exploit. We are prone to both of these things, there's a good chance we give the ball away carelessly to their press - if they take the lead then there's a good chance the floodgates open, particularly if it's in the second half.

On the flipside to this, they have to win. They can't afford to draw the game so they will have to come out and play. And when they do that, they are vulnerable on the break when they've pushed men forward - good as their defence has been this season. Ange won't play a Conte style counter-attacking game, but we do need to think about how we can stay compact, hold onto the ball, avoid giving it away in dangerous areas, drag them out of position and then exploit them when we do win it back ourselves. We also know that they are prone to losing their heads if things aren't going well, and given the number of games they've been playing recently and with such a intense style, there's a good chance they start to tire towards the end of the game. So here's the plan:

1. Bentancur and Kulusevksi have to start - think back to the NLD win two years ago. Bentancur makes us tick, he provides the easy pass and outlet to defenders that are being harassed by the high press, he shields the ball well himself, he spots gaps to transition defence into attack when we're under pressure. And Kulu, whilst in crap form these last few months, holds the ball up better than anyone in our attack. His size and strength means that when he runs with the ball, he may not skin loads of players and beat them for pace but he does drag opponents out of position and leave gaps for particularly when against teams that want to press.

2. VdV at LB, Dragusin at CB - With no Udogie we've got a decision to make, but this gives us extra height at set-pieces and our fastest, strongest defender around to deny Saka space. Will be a baptism of fire for Dragusin but if he can't handle it then we should never have signed him.

3. We need a gameplan for Odegaard. So much of what they do goes through him - if he's given time and space on the ball we're in big trouble. Part of me wonders if we should start Hojbjerg for that reason to sit on him, but whether it's him or Sarr, they've got to make sure not to leave him unguarded. I think expecting Bissouma to man-mark him would be a disaster.

4. We have to play out from the back. Villa and Bayern did this so well against them and it's Ange's style. They will press high, but if we play well using the players I've mentioned above, we can start to exploit them when they push men up the pitch. If we start trying to play long balls up the field they'll destroy our forwards and continue to dominate in our half.

5. Richarlison should start. I can't think of many games he's had much of an impact from the bench, but if he harasses them in the first half, gets in their faces, winds them up and starts to wear them down, the game becomes ideal for Johnson/Werner to come off the bench to run against tired legs. The other option if we're feeling leftfield is to start Kulusevski in the middle as a false 9 if we are to keep Johnson's pace on from the beginning, but that's completely untested and could be a disaster.


Am hoping Ange has used the two weeks without playing to come up with some new tactical suckerpunch, but I doubt it. I don't really see the "get it wide to the winger and flash it across the box" working too well in this game. We need certain players to massively step up, this one is so important for the fans.

First goal will be absolutely massive.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Secondly, about making a few tweaks, its not rocket science, it be could as simple as not always pushing our full backs high up the pitch at every opportunity.

Tbf Ange always makes tweaks depending on the opposition - he'll adjust how we build up from the back depending how the other team presses, sometimes the midfield is more of a double pivot than a single pivot, some times we press with a three, other times we press with a two. The tweaks are there if you analyse our matches and I expect it will be the same on Sunday.

 

[BH_spurs]

Goodison park tonight showing us the type of noise and hostility we need to bring Sunday and most importantly .. belief ! Even if we do go a goal down can’t allow the stadium to turn toxic.

 

[spurs mental]

We’ve all got our opinions… for me we should be nervously looking over our shoulders at Newcastle and potentially Chelsea if they get a result against Arsenal

Hi, wondering if we should be nervously looking over our shoulders at both Newcastle and Chelsea still? Asking for a friend.

 

[CantSmileWithoutYou]

Hi, wondering if we should be nervously looking over our shoulders at both Newcastle and Chelsea still? Asking for a friend.

No no, man united....

 

[Ghost Hardware]

I only just realised Arsenal have scored 85 goals this season and only let in 26. I’m sure it’s been mentioned on here but that really is very impressive. Guess it puts our 65 for and 49 against in to perspective. More in the sense that it’s a good indicator of how early we are in our development. I think we just need to keep that in mind if things don’t go to plan on the weekend.

 

[Misfit]

I just don't want to be embarrassed

 

[bubble07]

I only just realised Arsenal have scored 85 goals this season and only let in 26. I’m sure it’s been mentioned on here but that really is very impressive. Guess it puts our 65 for and 49 against in to perspective. More in the sense that it’s a good indicator of how early we are in our development. I think we just need to keep that in mind if things don’t go to plan on the weekend.

Think under peak poch we had similar numbers

 

[Ghost Hardware]

Think under peak poch we had similar numbers

You could well be right, scary thing is tho they still have 4 games left, they could quite possibly be in touching distance of 100 GF by the end of it and yet they still might not win it. Good marker of where we need to get to. Just hope we do our job this weekend and derail their chances.

 

[bubble07]

I only just realised Arsenal have scored 85 goals this season and only let in 26. I’m sure it’s been mentioned on here but that really is very impressive. Guess it puts our 65 for and 49 against in to perspective. More in the sense that it’s a good indicator of how early we are in our development. I think we just need to keep that in mind if things don’t go to plan on the weekend.

Incredibly just seen in 16/17 we scored 86 and conceded 26

 

[chas vs dave]

Exactly mate.

The atmosohere is key. If its all nervous that will play into their hands.

Need to make it fucking loud, louder than its been yet at the new stadium.

Do that and we'll have a good chance.

Let's get att em boyzzzzzz....