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Match Threads Chelsea vs Spurs

Date
May 2, 2024
KO Time
07:30 pm
Score
0 -2

Match Prediction

  • Spurs Win

    Votes: 40 34.5%
  • Chelsea Win

    Votes: 56 48.3%
  • Draw

    Votes: 20 17.2%

  • Total voters
    116

kitchen

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2006
2,334
3,766
I don’t see much point in playing Lo Celso I don’t think he’s got a long term future here. Better to give Donley a run.

Play Bentancur at 6 and rotate Donley and Maddison as well as Sarr and Bissouma at number 8.
I don't understand why lo celso hasn't got a long term future... unless he is refusing a contract. He's a baller and perfectly suited to Ange's style of play.

Bentancur is not the answer at 6 imo. He's an elite 8 but lacks the destroyer ability of an elite 6 from what I've seen. We need an elite 6 to play with him really.

He's press resistant and has great ability to break the lines, but he seems better at winning the ball on the press than sitting back, sensing danger and mopping up. Maybe I'm wrong and we need to give him more time there as a lot of his game points to him being a Busquets-esque number 6.
 

RuskyM

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2011
7,409
25,043
I don't understand why lo celso hasn't got a long term future... unless he is refusing a contract. He's a baller and perfectly suited to Ange's style of play.

Bentancur is not the answer at 6 imo. He's an elite 8 but lacks the destroyer ability of an elite 6 from what I've seen. We need an elite 6 to play with him really.

He's press resistant and has great ability to break the lines, but he seems better at winning the ball on the press than sitting back, sensing danger and mopping up. Maybe I'm wrong and we need to give him more time there as a lot of his game points to him being a Busquets-esque number 6.
This is his fifth season contracted to us and he's played 41 league games.
 

kitchen

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2006
2,334
3,766
Lo Celso? I won't be at all sorry to see him go. I remember some of the half arsed lackadaisical dross he served up in the past but as is normal on here, players become better for not playing for a while, he can have all the nice five minute cameos he likes to fool people with, but he'll revert to type soon enough. It just hasn't worked out for him here.
What bad performances has he had under Ange?

Granted he had some poor games under Conte in particular but he's not designed to play in a low block Counter attack team. He needs to play pass and move football and under Ange he's only been very good. His second half performance against Bournemouth was the best performance of any of our midfielders all season.

Also against villa him and bentancur had them chasing shadows until they injured Bentancur. As a pair, those two are our best pass and move midfielders. We should at the very least give it some game time as I've not seen many other midfield combinations look nearly as good.

Unless he wants to leave of course...
 

kitchen

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2006
2,334
3,766
This is his fifth season contracted to us and he's played 41 league games.
Yes but now he suits the style of play. Many players are excellent under one manager and poor under others. Look at Sancho right now...
 

VoteMe4Prez

Well-Known Member
Oct 6, 2013
2,809
7,036
The ones we need to keep are Vicario, VDV, Romero, Udogie, Porro, Bentancur, Maddison, Sarr and Johnson. Am I being unfair to Son, Richarlison and Kulu?
 

StockSpur

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2004
5,051
1,600
careful, some here think sons done it all on his own, forgetting we had the best player in the world in the 10 shirt passing him through and pulling defenses all over the place creating huge gaps and space behind them..
 

max cady

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2011
2,624
3,290
I find the issue is with the players is not being cute enough. I seen a few games this season where the opposition have bought freekicks in dangerous areas that have led to sheer panic. We seem to be to honest. For instance Curcurella's free last night he practically jumped in front of our player to win the free and as a result of that a shambles at the back that led to their 2nd.

We need to get cuter if we are to survive, other get away with it so why can't we.
 

spurs mental

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2007
25,753
51,253
What the fuck were Son and Hojbjerg doing for the second goal?! Utter clown show. Captain and legend but standing there holding hands with another player watching the ball go over his head instead of taking responsibility and directing the ball away is not what I want from Son. It was an utterly pathetic goal to concede. Again. Embarrassing.
 

spark7586

Well-Known Member
May 12, 2008
451
892
The ones we need to keep are Vicario, VDV, Romero, Udogie, Porro, Bentancur, Maddison, Sarr and Johnson. Am I being unfair to Son, Richarlison and Kulu?
Wouldn’t be keeping Johnson - he’s so overrated and struggle to see what he actually brings to the team. Richy is another that defo needs to go.
 

Teegart

Scottish Yid
Jun 30, 2006
870
2,336
A massive eye opener for me was the performance of each teams wide men.

Despite being against the elite powerhouses of Gilchrist and Cuccarella, Son and Johnson couldn’t beat them one on one all game. Yet every time Mudryk or Madueke had our full backs isolated I was saying to myself “shit, this is bad”. Madueke beat Emerson time and time again like he wasn’t there. Mudryk the same the other side.

Thing is those Chelsea wingers would have beaten their own fullbacks if the tables were turned, so this ain’t even a dig at the defensive ability of Porro or Emerson.

As I said in the Ange thread, our squad is seriously seriously lacking in a one vs one specialist, none of our front line can beat a man from a standing start. Not even that, they can’t manipulate a defender enough to get a shot or cross away either. We need to spend this summer or it’ll be more of the same.
 

rightwayup

Well-Known Member
Jan 31, 2011
354
1,239
It looks like there may be problems in the dressing room. Players like Porro don't seem invested like they were earlier in the season. I have been concerned a long time about Ange, I love what he was trying to achieve but he only seems to have one way of doing that. Having just a plan A will never win titles or European trophies. Not even top 4. I thought Poch was not great tactically but he did try to change stuff when the situation needed it (Son at LB apart ;) I don't think the squad is really that much of an issue and is largely a decent squad but it needs to be utilised better. Whatever the front line has to be sorted. Only player I would keep for definite is Johnson. He gets pelters but is one of the few that cares and has a great knack for being in the right place. In a better functioning team I think he will be a revelation.
 

Monkey boy

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
6,511
17,380
Our opponents learnt a while back now that suffocating the middle of the pitch completely destroys our whole system.

The fullbacks going central into midfield worked great to begin with as we over loaded that area, but teams saw that and now play extremely narrow defensively which is why we no longer can play those direct balls into midfield and immediately turn and be on the attack. Opponents now drop a little deeper and flood the middle, thats why so much of our play gets slowed down and we end up on the edge of their area playing backwards and sideways passes.

Ange was pissed towards the end of the first half, looked like he was shouting at Sarr and maybe Biss? Saying stop playing backwards play the ball forwards.

The only way this system will every work the way Ange wants is to have better technical players that are brave in making those passes, and also better forwards to receive those passes. Otherwise we turn the ball over with a poor pass with the RB and LB high up the pitch and all of a sudden it's 3 vs 2 for them. VDV's pace has bailed us out too many times.

But people keep telling us that the good teams dont change or tweak their tactics to counter opponents yet it seems that every team we face recently does this and as results have shown it works.

If Ange doesnt wise up to this and soon then he wont be here in January 2025.
 

14/04/91

Well-Known Member
Jan 13, 2006
3,658
5,952
I can now see why Ange isn't prioritising set-pieces. He's got much bigger worries as the team have basically stopped playing his way.
I think he's genuinely concerned as to why our possession play has absolutely fallen off a cliff.
Earlier in the season (up to smashing Villa), we were brave with the ball. We played out from the back, created angles, beat the press and were pretty rapid once we got past the halfway line.

Clearly we've played teams that have sat back and made that style more difficult but even so, we are not brave enough on the ball and our passing is now very slow and very obvious.

I've no idea what has happened. If it's confidence (and they seem very weak away from home the last couple of months) then there's an issue with mental strength and character.
Last night a lot of them looked so out of sorts; poor delivery, misplaced passes were the norm not the exception.

I'm pretty worried. Watching the last few games, I'm struggling to think beyond 2 or 3 outfield players that look like they might be up to this. It is utterly bizarre that the team that took risks and zipped the ball around has now turned into this pedestrian side.

Ending a season badly often means the start of the next season is difficult. Ange's touchline demeanour and post-match interview showed he's clearly worried too.
 

TomElRumi

Member
Aug 31, 2012
15
65
Aside from the obvious defensive fragilities, I think the challenge we're facing is that teams have adapted to how we play: they're not pressing as aggressively and instead fall back quickly into a pretty robust low block that we can't seem to work out how to unlock. The result is that we recycle the ball around the opposition penalty area slowly and without threat, until one winger swings in a speculative and predictable cross. So the challenge, and I think this entirely addressable, is can Ange build and coach a dual-threat system that works *both* against a press (this we can do) *and* against a low block (this we have struggled with all season).
 

kitchen

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2006
2,334
3,766
A massive eye opener for me was the performance of each teams wide men.

Despite being against the elite powerhouses of Gilchrist and Cuccarella, Son and Johnson couldn’t beat them one on one all game. Yet every time Mudryk or Madueke had our full backs isolated I was saying to myself “shit, this is bad”. Madueke beat Emerson time and time again like he wasn’t there. Mudryk the same the other side.

Thing is those Chelsea wingers would have beaten their own fullbacks if the tables were turned, so this ain’t even a dig at the defensive ability of Porro or Emerson.

As I said in the Ange thread, our squad is seriously seriously lacking in a one vs one specialist, none of our front line can beat a man from a standing start. Not even that, they can’t manipulate a defender enough to get a shot or cross away either. We need to spend this summer or it’ll be more of the same.
Agree, and this is also a big reason why we struggle against low blocks. Dribbling past a man is one way of disrupting the shape and organization, and we just don't have this tool readily available.
 

stormfly

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2006
4,651
12,249
Def not Son. He would be first on the list we could also probably get a decent fee for him.
Son will never be sold because he sells us shirts in Korea and gets ticket sells. That’s far more important than his performances on the pitch. Especially in Levy’s eye.
 

EQP

EQP
Sep 1, 2013
8,109
30,246
Son will never be sold because he sells us shirts in Korea and gets ticket sells. That’s far more important than his performances on the pitch. Especially in Levy’s eye.

Sure, he's been pretty poor for several games but let's not pretend as if he isn't leading the team in goals (16) and assists (9).

They way you're trying to frame it, is as if he's been coasting all season and hasn't helped us win games. That is far from true.
 

shoggy33

Well-Known Member
Feb 25, 2007
1,361
4,549
Arteta won FA Cup in his first season. And he got the job late in December and didn't have preseason with the team and didn't buy anyone in Summer to suit his system and wasn't able to get rid of anyone. Ange deserves more time, but we need to see progress next season and not just for a month or two. I believe we will.

That's true, but they were still pretty inconsistent for a good couple of years under him before he got it right and had all the right players for his system. As poor as we've been recently we can't overlook the fact that we have fairly average one dimensional forwards, and every single one of our midfielders has forgotten how to play football since like January. Maddison and Bissoumas loss of form has been the biggest single issue for me, they both look completely clueless, and Bents doesn't look half the player he was pre injury. If he can get the midfielders ticking again, and add some more quality in attack then I think/hope things would turn around pretty quickly.
 

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