Have we got a deep enough squad?

[coys200]

Given this a lot of thought today we aren’t in bad shape but if we want to win PL and contend CL there are obvious upgrades needed. I’m gonna use a 25 man squad as personally with a few kids I think that’s a perfect number.

Essential:

CM:Winks/wanyama/Dier are all essentially DM although winks is more adaptable. And we also have Skipp coming. The obvious out for me is Wanyama if he regains fitness. Then get in someone top draw more attacking like a Rabiot or Ndombele.

AM/winger: I did think moura/ lamela were ok as 1st attacking sub but currently they have been poor. A Zaha to interchange with dele/Son would be ideal and flog one of moura or lamela.

Kane back up: Doesn’t even have to be anyone spectacular just a solid striker that could get 10 PL a season and take weight off Kane. This is basically llorente replacement.

Just these 3 changes gives us needs quality in CM and 3 serious bench options.

Luxury:
CB: top one to replace Toby if off
RB: selling trippier + Aurier is a possibility and replacing with say a wan bisaka.
Young AM/winger: replacing Nkoudou with someone like Bowden that could be useful at a time like this.

Even with the luxury option if we flogged the mentioned squad players plus some other dead wood like janssen Onomah Ccv Edwards it’s possible it could be done on a net spend of £100-120m. Yes very optimistic but not completely implausible and that’s what it would take to make us title winners imo or get very close.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

it could be done on a net spend of £100-120m. Yes very optimistic

haha

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Yes it's deep enough in players, no, it's not deep enough in quality at various positions. (onion)

No idea why this got a D'oh rating other than the fact the child that follows me about doing so can't place into words how he disagrees.

Just lately, more so than usual, some of the levels of posters IQ and ability to converse has plummeted to new lows.

Shame.

 

[dontcallme]

No idea why this got a D'oh rating other than the fact the child that follows me about doing so can't place into words how he disagrees.

Just lately, more so than usual, some of the levels of posters IQ and ability to converse has plummeted to new lows.

Shame.

Best thing is not to allow yourself to get drawn into petty arguments.

If you feel someone doesn’t have the intelligence to have a worthwhile discussion just ignore them and discuss with those who can make a coherent point.

 

[dontcallme]

Problem is there are many factors into putting a squad together. If we look at pure numbers:

Gk: Lloris, Gazzaniga, Vorm
FB: Rose, Aurier, Trippier; Davies, KWP
CB: Verts, Alderweireld, Davinson, Foyth
CM: Sissoko, Dier, Winks, Wanyama; Skipp
AM: Alli; Eriksen, Son; Moura, Lamela
ST: Kane, Llorente

Then take into account that Dier can cover CB, Moura and Son up front, Eriksen and Alli can play deeper.

So on paper we are strong. We all have players we don’t rate but realistically that is a strong squad.

We have had bad injuries this season and a WC hangover. We also have a few on their way out.

We are going to need to partially rebuild in the next season and a half.

 

[rio bryan]

Given this a lot of thought today we aren’t in bad shape but if we want to win PL and contend CL there are obvious upgrades needed. I’m gonna use a 25 man squad as personally with a few kids I think that’s a perfect number.

Essential:

CM:Winks/wanyama/Dier are all essentially DM although winks is more adaptable. And we also have Skipp coming. The obvious out for me is Wanyama if he regains fitness. Then get in someone top draw more attacking like a Rabiot or Ndombele.

AM/winger: I did think moura/ lamela were ok as 1st attacking sub but currently they have been poor. A Zaha to interchange with dele/Son would be ideal and flog one of moura or lamela.

Kane back up: Doesn’t even have to be anyone spectacular just a solid striker that could get 10 PL a season and take weight off Kane. This is basically llorente replacement.

Just these 3 changes gives us needs quality in CM and 3 serious bench options.

Luxury:
CB: top one to replace Toby if off
RB: selling trippier + Aurier is a possibility and replacing with say a wan bisaka.
Young AM/winger: replacing Nkoudou with someone like Bowden that could be useful at a time like this.

Even with the luxury option if we flogged the mentioned squad players plus some other dead wood like janssen Onomah Ccv Edwards it’s possible it could be done on a net spend of £100-120m. Yes very optimistic but not completely implausible and that’s what it would take to make us title winners imo or get very close.

Obvious upgrades needed and you put in Skipp and sell a fit Wanyama (more likely to sell him if he wasn't fit ), have you forgotten how good he was when fit a few seasons ago.

Re kane back up, we are never going to sign an a solid striker that you want for various reasons :
a. Even a decent 10 goal a season CF would be too expensive as a back up.
b. What decent forward would come to spurs as an understudy to kane.
c. We've learnt our lesson with Llorente ( he was your 10 goals a season man when we bought him) that a bit part CF doesn't work.
d. We are more likely to buy a striker / wide man as this will be more flexible.

 

[danielneeds]

Obvious upgrades needed and you put in Skipp and sell a fit Wanyama (more likely to sell him if he wasn't fit ), have you forgotten how good he was when fit a few seasons ago.

Re kane back up, we are never going to sign an a solid striker that you want for various reasons :
a. Even a decent 10 goal a season CF would be too expensive as a back up.
b. What decent forward would come to spurs as an understudy to kane.
c. We've learnt our lesson with Llorente ( he was your 10 goals a season man when we bought him) that a bit part CF doesn't work.
d. We are more likely to buy a striker / wide man as this will be more flexible.

To me a RB and LB are essential in the summer, not luxury.

I don’t really trust Rose to go more than a couple of matches without getting injured. It just seems that niggles are going to be continuous with him now. I know Davies is a Poch favourite, but I would sell him and bring in Tierney. He could have the same impact as Robertson in the PL.

We either sell Aurier and promote KWP or let him go - it can’t really continue forever with him as a third choice. It’s no good for him. It would be great to go for Wan-Bissaka, but no doubt very expensive.

 

[Locotoro]

View attachment 44583

Looking at the break down I've ranked our players based on what I believe is important to Poch's playing style, ability and experience. This is how I would rank our players:

GK. 2nd - behind De Gea.
RB. 3rd - behind Walker and Azpilicueta
CB. 1st - taken as a pairing (as individuals only Van Dijk would be ahead)
CB. 1st - taken as a pairing
LB. 1st - I think Rose and Mendy are as good as each other but Rose shades it with experience.
CM. 5th - Winks would be behind all except Jorginho for me (and only because he's shown nothing in England for me to think otherwise)
CM. 4th - Kante, Pogba and Wijnaldem ahead of Sissoko (Silva is not the kind of midfielder Poch would play in the CM)
CM. 2nd - De Bruyne is the only one who beats Eriksen and only due to his physicality.
AM. 3rd - Salah and Hazard are a step up from Dele at the moment in terms of creativity.
SS. 1st - I personally rate Son ahead of Sterling and Mane but I accept some wouldn't. (Willian is too slow, and the others too inconsistent)
FC. 1st - Aguero is close and the rest are far behind.

Backups
B GK. 3rd - Cech and Romero ahead
B RB. 3rd - Danilo and Gomez ahead
B CB. 2nd - Sanchez behind Stones at the moment
B CB. 2nd - I'd have Foyth over all except Otamendi (only because he's vastly more experienced)
B LB. 1st
B DM. 3rd - Dier behind Fabinho and Gundagon.
B CM. 4th - 1st in terms of quality but Wanyama's injury drops him behind Delph, Keita and Barkley.
AM. 2nd - Lamela would probably be second to Ramsey and level with B. Silva.
B SS. 2nd - Mahrez ahead of Moira (Ozil doesn't fit the Poch method, Mata and Pedro havn't shown enough in the last 2 years)
B AM. 6th- GKN isn't of the same quality of any of the other players
B FC. 6th- I like Llorente but I'd take each of the other back up forwards over him

I've left out the rest because I dont think it's useful to have top quality in those positions at the expense of youth prospects development.

My conclusion would be as you would predict. We need to strengthen with first choice CMs and we need to improve at RB. In the back up squad we need a better FC and a creative midfielder in the mould of Eriksen.

 

[danielneeds]

View attachment 44583

Looking at the break down I've ranked our players based on what I believe is important to Poch's playing style, ability and experience. This is how I would rank our players:

GK. 2nd - behind De Gea.
RB. 3rd - behind Walker and Azpilicueta
CB. 1st - taken as a pairing (as individuals only Van Dijk would be ahead)
CB. 1st - taken as a pairing
LB. 1st - I think Rose and Mendy are as good as each other but Rose shades it with experience.
CM. 5th - Winks would be behind all except Jorginho for me (and only because he's shown nothing in England for me to think otherwise)
CM. 4th - Kante, Pogba and Wijnaldem ahead of Sissoko (Silva is not the kind of midfielder Poch would play in the CM)
CM. 2nd - De Bruyne is the only one who beats Eriksen and only due to his physicality.
AM. 3rd - Salah and Hazard are a step up from Dele at the moment in terms of creativity.
SS. 1st - I personally rate Son ahead of Sterling and Mane but I accept some wouldn't. (Willian is too slow, and the others too inconsistent)
FC. 1st - Aguero is close and the rest are far behind.

Backups
B GK. 3rd - Cech and Romero ahead
B RB. 3rd - Danilo and Gomez ahead
B CB. 2nd - Sanchez behind Stones at the moment
B CB. 2nd - I'd have Foyth over all except Otamendi (only because he's vastly more experienced)
B LB. 1st
B DM. 3rd - Dier behind Fabinho and Gundagon.
B CM. 4th - 1st in terms of quality but Wanyama's injury drops him behind Delph, Keita and Barkley.
AM. 2nd - Lamela would probably be second to Ramsey and level with B. Silva.
B SS. 2nd - Mahrez ahead of Moira (Ozil doesn't fit the Poch method, Mata and Pedro havn't shown enough in the last 2 years)
B AM. 6th- GKN isn't of the same quality of any of the other players
B FC. 6th- I like Llorente but I'd take each of the other back up forwards over him

I've left out the rest because I dont think it's useful to have top quality in those positions at the expense of youth prospects development.

My conclusion would be as you would predict. We need to strengthen with first choice CMs and we need to improve at RB. In the back up squad we need a better FC and a creative midfielder in the mould of Eriksen.

You're cuckoo-bananas if you think Rose is the best LB in the PL at the minute. He's played about three or four good games in just over 2 and a half years. Robertson is miles ahead of the rest.

And Lamela a better or as good AM as Bernado Silva... Stop it, my sides are splitting!

 

[coys200]

The point re wanyama is we now have 5 CM and 4 of them are either pure DM or deep playmaker. The only CM we have with some attacking intent is sissoko. So of the 4 wanyama is the obvious one to get rid of it’s highly unlikely he will ever recover his best form. Our options would then be sissoko/newbie as ACM and Dier/winks/Skipp as DCM which is much more balanced.

 

[SamR]

We have a big squad but the depth isn't good enough to challenge the best XI.

I'd replace Llorente, Lamela & GKN with a versatile player like Werner or Zaha.
-2 Foreign players

I'd give Waynama until the end of season but bring in Rabiot now.

The bigger situation is if Eriksen leaves in the summer. I have no idea how we will replace him. I can't think of anyone.

 

[danielneeds]

We have a big squad but the depth isn't good enough to challenge the best XI.

I'd replace Llorente, Lamela & GKN with a versatile player like Werner or Zaha.
-2 Foreign players

I'd give Waynama until the end of season but bring in Rabiot now.

The bigger situation is if Eriksen leaves in the summer. I have no idea how we will replace him. I can't think of anyone.

I would consider James in p/e for that very reason. A risk because of his injury record and lifestyle rumours, but in terms of pure talent, he's up there. I think he's a player who could shine again if he feels the love from Poch and a club in general.

 

[shelfboy68]

We have a big squad but the depth isn't good enough to challenge the best XI.

I'd replace Llorente, Lamela & GKN with a versatile player like Werner or Zaha.
-2 Foreign players

I'd give Waynama until the end of season but bring in Rabiot now.

The bigger situation is if Eriksen leaves in the summer. I have no idea how we will replace him. I can't think of anyone.

If eriksen leaves then ideally we would want a like for like replacement but then comes the stumbling block wages, so now we we are in cheaper option territory possibly having to wait a year or two to get up to eriksens level.

 

[SamR]

If eriksen leaves then ideally we would want a like for like replacement but then comes the stumbling block wages, so now we we are in cheaper option territory possibly having to wait a year or two to get up to eriksens level.

And then the cycle starts again!
That's what makes this all so frustrating for us - we're so very close to having a team that can really compete but a player leaving away from it going Tits up!

 

[shelfboy68]

And then the cycle starts again!
That's what makes this all so frustrating for us - we're so very close to having a team that can really compete but a player leaving away from it going Tits up!

Yes I know nothing will change but least we know what to expect rather than be shocked by it it's all standard stuff.

 

[Hakkz]

I would consider James in p/e for that very reason. A risk because of his injury record and lifestyle rumours, but in terms of pure talent, he's up there. I think he's a player who could shine again if he feels the love from Poch and a club in general.

Luxury player. On his good days one of the best, on his worse he needs to be carried.

 

[danielneeds]

Luxury player. On his good days one of the best, on his worse he needs to be carried.

A club like us has to be creative in solutions though. Some said Eriksen was a luxury player before Poch got here (even though that wasn't really true). He's not in the Ozil class of luxury, and if you structure a team in the right way you could fit him in.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

On paper, yes.

Goalie: Lloris Gazzaniga Vorm
Right back: Trippier Aurier Walker-Peters
Left back: Rose Davies
Centre back (2): Alderweireld Vertonghen Sanchez Foyth
Central midfield (2): Sissoko Winks Wanyama Dier
Attacking midfield (3): Eriksen Dele Son Lamela Lucas Nkoudou
Centre forward: Kane Llorente

We have at least 2 players for every role, and there are also a lot of positionally versatile players throughout. All but Nkoudou are internationals, and all those internationals are current barring Llorente and Vorm.

However, a closer look raises not many, but a couple of concerns. Llorente clearly can never replicate what Kane does, not even close. None of the CMs are quite the top level, though Winks is going in the right direction, Sissoko has had a very good season and both Dier and Wanyama are very good at a certain type of job. Throw in Wanyama seemingly being unable to stay fit and central midfield looks thin. All the full backs, while ranging somewhere between decent and good, and capable of having great games, are improveable.

In the medium term we may well have to address age related decline (all of the first choice back 5). In attacking midfield we have three excellent options in Dele, Son and Eriksen, two good options who probably won’t get any better in the South American’s, and a still unproven Nkoudou. One of the latter three could do with being upgraded on in reality. And in the short term, unless Wanyama rises like the Phoenix and Winks evolves to the absolute peak of his ability (whatever that is) very soon, I’d say a top class, or at least potentially top class central midfielder coming in is absolutely necessary. A lot of what else is needed depends on how we choose to replace Llorente and Vorm this summer (hopefully a youth is ready to step in for each) and what happens with the Ajax alumni contract stand offs but at this exact point in time I’d say we have a good enough squad, deep enough too, everywhere but CM when I compare to our rivals.

 

[Hakkz]

A club like us has to be creative in solutions though. Some said Eriksen was a luxury player before Poch got here (even though that wasn't really true). He's not in the Ozil class of luxury, and if you structure a team in the right way you could fit him in.

Well that is the gamble. He could well think that he is above us and then jog around picking up paychecks. OR he gets his head down and works hard for the team.

 

[Johnny J]

On paper, yes.

Goalie: Lloris Gazzaniga Vorm
Right back: Trippier Aurier Walker-Peters
Left back: Rose Davies
Centre back (2): Alderweireld Vertonghen Sanchez Foyth
Central midfield (2): Sissoko Winks Wanyama Dier
Attacking midfield (3): Eriksen Dele Son Lamela Lucas Nkoudou
Centre forward: Kane Llorente

We have at least 2 players for every role, and there are also a lot of positionally versatile players throughout. All but Nkoudou are internationals, and all those internationals are current barring Llorente and Vorm.

However, a closer look raises not many, but a couple of concerns. Llorente clearly can never replicate what Kane does, not even close. None of the CMs are quite the top level, though Winks is going in the right direction, Sissoko has had a very good season and both Dier and Wanyama are very good at a certain type of job. Throw in Wanyama seemingly being unable to stay fit and central midfield looks thin. All the full backs, while ranging somewhere between decent and good, and capable of having great games, are improveable.

In the medium term we may well have to address age related decline (all of the first choice back 5). In attacking midfield we have three excellent options in Dele, Son and Eriksen, two good options who probably won’t get any better in the South American’s, and a still unproven Nkoudou. One of the latter three could do with being upgraded on in reality. And in the short term, unless Wanyama rises like the Phoenix and Winks evolves to the absolute peak of his ability (whatever that is) very soon, I’d say a top class, or at least potentially top class central midfielder coming in is absolutely necessary. A lot of what else is needed depends on how we choose to replace Llorente and Vorm this summer (hopefully a youth is ready to step in for each) and what happens with the Ajax alumni contract stand offs but at this exact point in time I’d say we have a good enough squad, deep enough too, everywhere but CM when I compare to our rivals.

This is a fair reflection of where we are, imo, except at full back. I think our game needs flying wing backs, and Trippier and Davis aren't that. Yes, they're decent, but we really suffered when Walker left and Rose's injuries began.