The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - THE DEADLINE

[Mr Pink]

Well the reason I've heard, and I haven't had it corroborated(so take it with a large pinch of salt) which is why I haven't posted it until now, was that we couldn't shift Sanchez or Tanganga so we never pushed it. We were waiting for one of them to firm up first. Thing is you keep saying that big clubs don't usually get 3 in in January, and you are right they don't(so I've answered your question) but is that because it's so very difficult to do so, or because they don't really need to because they usually get what they need in the Summer. No one can tell me how hard things are in January, I know far better than most the added difficulties the winter window brings, but it's far from impossible. As I've said previously.... "We have wanted Porro for a good while, yet leave it until last minute to try and shave a few quid off(which we didn't btw). It's 100% a deliberate strategy to wait until the last week because in the past there's usually been more value. When you are trying to buy other clubs best players though, it doesn't happen because be it the beginning of the window or the end they still don't want to sell.

Regardless of how much revenue comes in Levy is never willing to push the boat out or take even the smallest risk to push us forward. In January we spent a month haggling for a player we paid full price for, and signed a player on loan who fell in our lap. You keep saying "The big clubs never address three major problems in January", and I've said "you're right because they address them in the Summer and then just need to tweak in January". That's the point. You keep comparing us to the other big 6 clubs, but when it comes to transfers we are not a big 6 club because we don't act like one, if we were we wouldn't be having the same post mortem after every single transfer window be it Summer or Winter.

If we were skint I'd accept it, I'd understand it, and it's why all the way through the stadium build and NDP I made allowances. I defended Levy to the hilt because he was right in what he said regarding needing that income to compete for the bigger players. "It would be a game changer". Fact is though It hasn't made the slightest bit of difference to the way we negotiate through the transfer market, we are still trying to be cute with every deal despite having the best income v outgoings differential and the highest season ticket prices in the world.

Brilliant post.

And your last paragraph is the most frustrating part.

I thought it would change, but we're still applying the same negotiating tactics every window and charging the highest season ticket prices around.

And we've actually got people defending this on here.

It's absurd.

 

[Scot-Spur]

Again I agree, but apparently we also identified RWB as a priority. Which we added. I’m not railing against you here, I don’t want you to think that, but it’s still we didn’t add all we needed, rather than we didn’t add what we needed.

What we do is add the bare minimum. Just enough so Levy thinks we can qualify for the CL.

 

[SheffieldAndy]

What we do is add the bare minimum. Just enough so Levy thinks we can qualify for the CL.

As I’ve said, I don’t disagree, and I won’t disagree. But if we do, and then improve the team and squad after, then surely that’s not a bad thing?

 

[Trix]

I’d also dread to think what would be being said in the forum if we added Hinacapie and not Porro ?

But it shouldn't be an 'either or' situation. Not when we had money to do so, and if we didn't, then why on earth didn't we considering what we bring in? Not to mention the 150 million that we only took up the option for two thirds of. Yes we might be able to get them cheaper in the Summer, but that costs us now. Always the same with us, struggle through in the hope we can do something cheaper next time around.

 

[Stoof]

Brilliant post.

And your last paragraph is the most frustrating part.

I thought it would change, but we're still applying the same negotiating tactics every window and charging the highest season ticket prices around.

And we've actually got people defending this on here.

It's absurd.

I don't think people "defend" it. They can just understand that there's potentially another point of view of which they try and put across.

More than anyone I'd love us to splash the cash, but I can see why in the current state of the world we're not. An understanding of potentially why something is done does not mean you side with them. There's nuance there surely Mr P?

 

[SheffieldAndy]

But it shouldn't be an 'either or' situation. Not when we had money to do so, and if we didn't, then why on earth didn't we considering what we bring in? Not to mention the 150 million that we only took up the option for two thirds of. Yes we might be able to get them cheaper in the Summer, but that costs us now. Always the same with us, struggle through in the hope we can do something cheaper next time around.

It shouldn’t, but it seems to be. And that’s not a ‘we didn’t sign our priority’ situation. It’s a, we didn’t prioritise all properly and push it situation.
But if you’re telling people CB was a priority, then if we had to choose we’d take the CH and not the RWB. Which to me, and I can only speak for me, isn’t acceptable. The RWB changes us so much more than a CH for me.

 

[Scot-Spur]

As I’ve said, I don’t disagree, and I won’t disagree. But if we do, and then improve the team and squad after, then surely that’s not a bad thing?

It’s not a bad thing, however when you consider our starting point and work to be done we are either standing still or regressing in the bigger picture.

 

[SheffieldAndy]

It’s not a bad thing, however when you consider our starting point and work to be done we are either standing still or regressing in the bigger picture.

I don’t think we’ve done either personally, but that is still to be seen and is very much objective in the view of no evidence either way.

 

[worcestersauce]

Seriously tell me one reason why signing zaniolo was difficult?
certainly not finances

likewise for hincapie.

We aren’t a broke club. Just a tight one

Maybe he wanted to go to Milan.

 

[Mr Pink]

I don't think people "defend" it. They can just understand that there's potentially another point of view of which they try and put across.

More than anyone I'd love us to splash the cash, but I can see why in the current state of the world we're not. An understanding of potentially why something is done does not mean you side with them. There's nuance there surely Mr P?

OK mate, I just find it difficult to process that understanding or particular mind set.

I don't think I, or anyone else, is suggesting that we just throw cash around like confetti.

But there's a clear pattern to the way we do business and its continuing to hamstring us IMHO.

 

[nico97531]

It shouldn’t, but it seems to be. And that’s not a ‘we didn’t sign our priority’ situation. It’s a, we didn’t prioritise all properly and push it situation.
But if you’re telling people CB was a priority, then if we had to choose we’d take the CH and not the RWB. Which to me, and I can only speak for me, isn’t acceptable. The RWB changes us so much more than a CH for me.

That’s why the problem wasn’t about us buying a RWB instead of a CB, it’s us not buying both as they are both priorities.
We shouldn’t be in a situation where we had to choose.

 

[nico97531]

Maybe he wanted to go to Milan.

I think he would happily pay for his own ticket here if we had actually made an offer after what happened

 

[SheffieldAndy]

That’s why the problem wasn’t about us buying a RWB instead of a CB, it’s us not buying both as they are both priorities.
We shouldn’t be in a situation where we had to choose.

We shouldn’t, but as I’m saying, it seems we are. And of the two, I’d take RWB every time over CH. And if CH was a priority, surely we’d have gone full bore for that rather than Porro? I’d love both, I want us to improve as much as anyone, but if we didn’t want to, then I’d have taken RWB too.

 

[Thenewcat]

OK mate, I just find it difficult to process that understanding or partucular mind set.

I don't think I, or anyone else, is suggesting that we just throw cash around like confetti.

But there's a clear pattern to the way we do business and its continuing to hamstring us IMHO.

I don’t think anyone has disagreed with your last line. For me, we should have bought a CB in the summer when it was obviously a priority for our manager. Budget is no excuse because we could have not spent money on a player our manager didn’t want or need (Spence) then just be more realistic on the outs and raise some cash. We then compounded it by nickel and diming the Porro deal (unsuccessfully, as trix pointed out) and only switching focus to a CB at the very end of the window. Our modus operandi is designed to win battles (look at the deal I wrung out of those suckers) but lose wars (oops we still don’t have a CB)

 

[worcestersauce]

I think he would happily pay for his own ticket here if we had actually made an offer after what happened

Unless he wanted to go to Milan and he believed his ultimate destination could be Milan.
I'm simply questioning the absolute assertion that it was a done deal waiting for us to hand him the pen.

 

[Gb160]

I thought it would change, but we're still applying the same negotiating tactics every window and charging the highest season ticket prices around.

And we've actually got people defending this on here.

This is the reason why my (and I would guess many, many others) views on Levy and Enic have more or less 180'd over the last few seasons.
I could see the reasons behind being so frugal during the stadium development (as frustrating as that was) so gave the benefit of the doubt, but now it's just fucking inexcusable.

 

[EJWTartanSpur]

Trix has this spot on. Personally, I’ve always been understanding towards our ownership and believed the new stadium would be what changed things for us. Doesn’t appear to be the case so I’ve had enough.

In order to compete we need the type of owners who, if Hincapie was indeed the managers first choice CB, turn up at Leverkusen’s door on January 1st and financially bully them into making Hincapie our player within that window. There’s no excuse for not having the means to do so.

 

[SheffieldAndy]

Trix has this spot on. Personally, I’ve always been understanding towards our ownership and believed the new stadium would be what changed things for us. Doesn’t appear to be the case so I’ve had enough.

In order to compete we need the type of owners who, if Hincapie was indeed the managers first choice CB, turn up at Leverkusen’s door on January 1st and financially bully them into making Hincapie our player within that window. There’s no excuse for not having the means to do so.

And if we’d done that and not got Porro, would you feel the same?

 

[Shanks]

OK mate, I just find it difficult to process that understanding or partucular mind set.

I don't think I, or anyone else, is suggesting that we just throw cash around like confetti.

But there's a clear pattern to the way we do business and its continuing to hamstring us IMHO.

Yeah this, I’m fine with cash not being splashed, just address the needs on the pitch, which we don’t!
Every fan has seen how many mistakes our defence have made this year, we have literally gifted goal after goal.

that is the cause of us not challenging for the title this season, so go strengthen, even more so considering our weakened CL hopes for next season too - another window to give us a platform to go forward, and another window of lost opportunity is how i see it

 

[Scot-Spur]

And if we’d done that and not got Porro, would you feel the same?

It shouldn’t be one or the other though! It should be both. We need both, we have plenty cash apparently and plenty room with FFP. We need to push the boat out.