Jose Mourinho

[Shadydan]

You keep mentioning he's wrong for us, culturally.
Over the last 20 or so years, culturally, we're known as chokers...besides one league cup we're always falling at the last hurdle, sometimes playing nice football (although for huge chunks not), but always the bridesmaid and all that.
The fact that he doesn't fit that, culturally, is absolutely fine by me.

For a club that prides itself on the Spurs way the majority of our managers especially recently have played turgid/uninspiring football and still haven't won anything.

 

[dudu]

Here is our list of "achievements" the last 10 years.

18/19 Final of CL - Lost
18/19 Semi-finals EFL cup - Lost
17/18 Semi-finals FA Cup - Lost
16/17 Semi-finals FA Cup - Lost
12/13 Quarter-finals Europa - Lost
11/12 Semi-finals FA Cup - Lost
10/11 Quarter-finals CL - Lost
9/10 Semi-finals of FA Cup - Lost

Most of these were winnable games in which we did not even turn up and perform to our abilities.

We have waited long enough for another trophy I just don't understand why some are so resistant to at least giving Jose a proper go at getting us past the finish line.

You literally have nothing to lose by having a bit of patience and letting someone who has experience at getting teams winning things beyond anyone we have had in charge here for who knows how long go through their process.

There are no guarantees in football but a close one would be us not turning up in semi-final/final. Jose may not be the man to change it but he deserves a proper chance.

 

[spids]

Here is our list of "achievements" the last 10 years.

18/19 Final of CL - Lost
18/19 Semi-finals EFL cup - Lost
17/18 Semi-finals FA Cup - Lost
16/17 Semi-finals FA Cup - Lost
12/13 Quarter-finals Europa - Lost
11/12 Semi-finals FA Cup - Lost
10/11 Quarter-finals CL - Lost
9/10 Semi-finals of FA Cup - Lost

Most of these were winnable games in which we did not even turn up and perform to our abilities.

We have waited long enough for another trophy I just don't understand why some are so resistant to at least giving Jose a proper go at getting us past the finish line.

You literally have nothing to lose by having a bit of patience and letting someone who has experience at getting teams winning things beyond anyone we have had in charge here for who knows how long go through their process.

There are no guarantees in football but a close one would be us not turning up in semi-final/final. Jose may not be the man to change it but he deserves a proper chance.

Hard to argue with this post. Especially in the cold light of day when opinions are not overly clouded by having just sat through a very turgid 90 minutes of football (e.g. any of the recent Sheff Utd, Everton or Bournemouth games).

I personally think no-one could win anything with our current squad, not Guardiola, Klopp or Mourinho, and it needs significant investment, not on the squad, but on at least 3 if not 4 starting positions (RB, LB, DCM). If you put 'peak power' Walker, Rose and Wanyama / Dembele into this side I think we'd still probably fall short.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

For a club that prides itself on the Spurs way the majority of our managers especially recently have played turgid/uninspiring football and still haven't won anything.

I mean, that’s not true. Jol was a tough cautious but certainly improved our play, and Ramos was too all our attack. Redknapp was very gung ho, and while Pochettino was risk averse his team scored many goals while controlling play. Hoddle had all the best intentions bless him.

I’d say it’s only Graham, Avb and Santini who had no intention to prioritise attack, and in the last 22 years they make up roughly 4.5 seasons between them.

 

[thekneaf]

Hard to argue with this post. Especially in the cold light of day when opinions are not overly clouded by having just sat through a very turgid 90 minutes of football (e.g. any of the recent Sheff Utd, Everton or Bournemouth games).

I personally think no-one could win anything with our current squad, not Guardiola, Klopp or Mourinho, and it needs significant investment, not on the squad, but on at least 3 if not 4 starting positions (RB, LB, DCM). If you put 'peak power' Walker, Rose and Wanyama / Dembele into this side I think we'd still probably fall short.

Not sure about that last bit, impossible to say. What I will say is that a lot of our previous almost seasons where with managers punching above their level. Redknapp hit new heights with us and exceeded himself, and Poch was learning. I certainly don't think Poch has reached his ceiling, but he was certainly a bit green behind the ears in crunch games.

Would a manager with a mature killer instinct have got us over the line, who knows. Would that manger have got us there in the first place?

We are where we are, let's buckle in and see what happens.

 

[Shadydan]

I mean, that’s not true. Jol was a tough cautious but certainly improved our play, and Ramos was too all our attack. Redknapp was very gung ho, and while Pochettino was risk averse his team scored many goals while controlling play. Hoddle had all the best intentions bless him.

I’d say it’s only Graham, Avb and Santini who had no intention to prioritise attack, and in the last 22 years they make up roughly 4.5 seasons between them.

That's not the majority of our recent managers (take last 20 years for example and go through them and most of them have been uninspiring) and Ramos playing all out attack?, don't remember much of his reign other than the fact we looked disjointed and clueless.

 

[buckley]

Well I never wanted Mourhino because his style of play was so defensively based but having said that if you look at the goals his teams at Chelsea Inter Real and United the goals scored are either more than other clubs per season or near the top for goals scored .
Listening at the time to Chelsea supporters denying he was a defensive coach only made me smirk but looking back factually I now believe they were right and I was wrong it would not surprise me if he also had a good goal scoring record with his other clubs .I think my attitude stems from the misguided arrogance that we are somehow better than other clubs because of our history and I have said before and I will say it again dont look backwards look to the future .
So I have come to the conclusion that my dislike of Mourhino has blinded me to the real facts and having taken it on the chin and admit I was wrong ( admitting your wrong really hurts the ego ) I am finding myself really liking Mourhino and his attitude that he will prove the doubters wrong is making me ever confident that once he brings in the players he needs albeit not the players he would take as first choice because of financial restrictions . We will be a force next year come on Jose COYS

 

[BringBack_leGin]

That's not the majority of our recent managers (take last 20 years for example and go through them and most of them have been uninspiring) and Ramos playing all out attack?, don't remember much of his reign other than the fact we looked disjointed and clueless.

Because he was just going all out attack.

Graham
Hoddle
Santini
Jol
Ramos
Redknapp
Avb
Pochettino
Mourinho

That’s every permanent manager to operate under Enic. I’ve highlighted the managers who at least intended to create a cohesive attacking side, even if they ultimately did not succeed. Too early to judge Mourinho.

Anyway, you’re point was in defence of Mourinho, which I applaud and agree with, I just disagree that we’ve mainly played dross in recent history. The last two decades since Graham was sacked has seen at the very least football geared to attack, and certainly the tenures shares between Jol, Redknapp and Pochettino, who’ve been the three malinger serving as well as most successful managers for us, produced mainly pleasing football in my opinion.

 

[dudu]

Hard to argue with this post. Especially in the cold light of day when opinions are not overly clouded by having just sat through a very turgid 90 minutes of football (e.g. any of the recent Sheff Utd, Everton or Bournemouth games).

I personally think no-one could win anything with our current squad, not Guardiola, Klopp or Mourinho, and it needs significant investment, not on the squad, but on at least 3 if not 4 starting positions (RB, LB, DCM). If you put 'peak power' Walker, Rose and Wanyama / Dembele into this side I think we'd still probably fall short.

You say that, but even at our peak, we were not capable of turning up in the big game. That is not just a personnel problem. Maybe Poch didn't know how to do it because he didn't have the experience of how?

Do you think we would have been more likely to win in most of those semi's/finals the last few years with a more experienced manager than Poch in charge?

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Here is our list of "achievements" the last 10 years.

18/19 Final of CL - Lost
18/19 Semi-finals EFL cup - Lost
17/18 Semi-finals FA Cup - Lost
16/17 Semi-finals FA Cup - Lost
12/13 Quarter-finals Europa - Lost
11/12 Semi-finals FA Cup - Lost
10/11 Quarter-finals CL - Lost
9/10 Semi-finals of FA Cup - Lost

Most of these were winnable games in which we did not even turn up and perform to our abilities.

We have waited long enough for another trophy I just don't understand why some are so resistant to at least giving Jose a proper go at getting us past the finish line.

You literally have nothing to lose by having a bit of patience and letting someone who has experience at getting teams winning things beyond anyone we have had in charge here for who knows how long go through their process.

There are no guarantees in football but a close one would be us not turning up in semi-final/final. Jose may not be the man to change it but he deserves a proper chance.

'15 league cup final. (everyone has wiped this from their memory, it tickles me!)

 

[BringBack_leGin]

'15 league cup final. (everyone has wiped this from their memory, it tickles me!)

I’m still stung by losing to newly promoted Blackburn.

Had it gone the right way that day it’d all have panned out differently for GHod

 

[Deleted member 27995]

I’m still stung by losing to newly promoted Blackburn.

Had it gone the right way that day it’d all have panned out differently for GHod

Yeah, we all wipe things because they sting, I forgot that Poch managed to get us to this final sometimes. The squad we had out that day, haha.

 

[ginola99]

Here is our list of "achievements" the last 10 years.

18/19 Final of CL - Lost
18/19 Semi-finals EFL cup - Lost
17/18 Semi-finals FA Cup - Lost
16/17 Semi-finals FA Cup - Lost
12/13 Quarter-finals Europa - Lost
11/12 Semi-finals FA Cup - Lost
10/11 Quarter-finals CL - Lost
9/10 Semi-finals of FA Cup - Lost

Most of these were winnable games in which we did not even turn up and perform to our abilities.

We have waited long enough for another trophy I just don't understand why some are so resistant to at least giving Jose a proper go at getting us past the finish line.

You literally have nothing to lose by having a bit of patience and letting someone who has experience at getting teams winning things beyond anyone we have had in charge here for who knows how long go through their process.

There are no guarantees in football but a close one would be us not turning up in semi-final/final. Jose may not be the man to change it but he deserves a proper chance.

You for

14/15 Final of EFL Cup - Lost

Even worse is the goals scored in that list, if you include both legs of Real (2011), Basel (2013) and Chelsea (2019):

P13 W1 D2 L10 F10 A27

Lost twice on penalties (Basel 2013 and Chelsea 2019).

Even finals alone is beyond depressing as well - 2009, 2015 and 2019 (FAILED to score a singles paltry goal in any of them!)

 

[jimbo]

Really? I don't hate him. I rate him. If I were a fan of Chelsea, Madrid, Arsenal, Inter or Juve I'd welcome him with open arms. I think he is wrong for Spurs, culturally and could do real.harm to a very disjointed squad.

All of those clubs have been considerably more successful than us. Most have their own cultures, or at least fan ideas of what the culture is. What is it about our culture in particular that makes him wrong, do you really believe he is so inflexible as to be unable to take perceptions of culture into account?
I don't expect him to go full Ossie, but I'm prepared to give him the time to see if he can introduce a little more swash and buckle than is considered typical (rightly or wrongly) for his sides.

I'm curious as to which other teams you think he would be a bad fit for culturally?

The chances of him doing real harm to a very disjointed squad... well, if the squad is in that bad of a shape it doesn't matter how much harm he does, it will need to be rebuilt anyway.
Not that real harm is possible, but players come and go regardless - we have a squad of players that have achieved little collectively. I just think the manager deserves the time to see if he can change that - for now.

 

[Shadydan]

Because he was just going all out attack.

Graham
Hoddle
Santini
Jol
Ramos
Redknapp
Avb
Pochettino
Mourinho

That’s every permanent manager to operate under Enic. I’ve highlighted the managers who at least intended to create a cohesive attacking side, even if they ultimately did not succeed. Too early to judge Mourinho.

Anyway, you’re point was in defence of Mourinho, which I applaud and agree with, I just disagree that we’ve mainly played dross in recent history. The last two decades since Graham was sacked has seen at the very least football geared to attack, and certainly the tenures shares between Jol, Redknapp and Pochettino, who’ve been the three malinger serving as well as most successful managers for us, produced mainly pleasing football in my opinion.

All out attack doesn't mean it was attractive, it was kamikaze with no real tactical plan, the idea may have been there but it was poorly executed which is why I didn't include Ramos or Hoddle, the others I agree with.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

All out attack doesn't mean it was attractive, it was kamikaze with no real tactical plan, the idea may have been there but it was poorly executed which is why I didn't include Ramos or Hoddle, the others I agree with.

I think we probably agree them but were making different points.

Though I’d suggest that at first both Hoddle and Ramos upped our entertainment value. I remember one game away to I think Sunderland where we scored a goal that at the time was the best passing move I’d ever seen from us, but from a very ordinary player (I think Clemence). And the 5-1 v Chelsea and Arsenal both showed the levels of football we wanted to play at. Sadly Hoddle only managed to get OAPs out of Levy and Pleat, while Ramos lost Berbatov, hated Lennon and tried to play Bentley at right back.

 

[dudu]

You for

14/15 Final of EFL Cup - Lost

Even worse is the goals scored in that list, if you include both legs of Real (2011), Basel (2013) and Chelsea (2019):

P13 W1 D2 L10 F10 A27

Lost twice on penalties (Basel 2013 and Chelsea 2019).

Even finals alone is beyond depressing as well - 2009, 2015 and 2019 (FAILED to score a singles paltry goal in any of them!)

 

[dudu]

You for

14/15 Final of EFL Cup - Lost

Even worse is the goals scored in that list, if you include both legs of Real (2011), Basel (2013) and Chelsea (2019):

P13 W1 D2 L10 F10 A27

Lost twice on penalties (Basel 2013 and Chelsea 2019).

Even finals alone is beyond depressing as well - 2009, 2015 and 2019 (FAILED to score a singles paltry goal in any of them!)

How can anyone say that we don't need to at least try having a serial winner at the helm for a bit.....

I understand why some would want a Naglesmann in but isn't there something to be said for doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results?

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Here is our list of "achievements" the last 10 years.

18/19 Final of CL - Lost
18/19 Semi-finals EFL cup - Lost
17/18 Semi-finals FA Cup - Lost
16/17 Semi-finals FA Cup - Lost
12/13 Quarter-finals Europa - Lost
11/12 Semi-finals FA Cup - Lost
10/11 Quarter-finals CL - Lost
9/10 Semi-finals of FA Cup - Lost

Most of these were winnable games in which we did not even turn up and perform to our abilities.

We have waited long enough for another trophy I just don't understand why some are so resistant to at least giving Jose a proper go at getting us past the finish line.

You literally have nothing to lose by having a bit of patience and letting someone who has experience at getting teams winning things beyond anyone we have had in charge here for who knows how long go through their process.

There are no guarantees in football but a close one would be us not turning up in semi-final/final. Jose may not be the man to change it but he deserves a proper chance.

That is quite interesting when you put it like this we really should've won something more, if you also add in two 'title' challenges under Poch and potential was there for a 3rd under aary until we bought Nelson & Saha.

Mabye patience is the key mate but i suppose some fans are concerned by the style of play and also that if he is the 'wrong man' then we've wasted time with him if we then go back to a 'project manager', i'm not disagreeing with you at all, I think you're probably spot on but I think this is where some fans are coming from.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I’m still stung by losing to newly promoted Blackburn.

Had it gone the right way that day it’d all have panned out differently for GHod

Ghod was a good tactictian but we had an aging squad and he also wasn't the best man manager, he never really succeeded with any club or international side particularly tbh, got England playing some good stuff to be fair until Beckham kicked out. Love the bloke but he was never the man to lead us to glory unfortuantely. I do wonder how Klinsmann would've done with us though as he did very very well with Germany.