Jose Mourinho

[Nebby]

So your happy with the way we continually concede possession, aimlessly hoof the ball long, struggle to string 1-2 passes together and completely avoid playing through midfield.

What midfield? We have a bunch of midfielders on the books, but not a cohesive midfield unit.

 

[marion52]

The only surprise is that everyone bought into his charm offensive.

‘everyone’ didn’t ?

 

[Nick-TopSpursMan]

So your happy with the way we continually concede possession, aimlessly hoof the ball long, struggle to string 1-2 passes together and completely avoid playing through midfield.

Took him 6 weeks to turn us in to Wimbledon...

 

[rossdapep]

Seeing as it's typical to compare with Poch and some are getting at Jose, I think it's worth looking at Poch's first season.

Remember when Poch first walked through the door he had a squad full of talented players who were not the most 'professional' shall we say, and some of these had lost desire (Lloris/Vertonghen).

We started of with a couple of wins (WH away and QPR at home) but these wins only papered over the cracks as we got turned over 3-0 by Liverpool at home.

In fact after Poch's first 10 games, our record read

W 4
D 2
L 4

Hardly inspiring, we'd been turned over by both WBA and Newcastle at home.

If anyone can remember the Villa win (Kanes free kick), will be able to say that the performance was absolutely dreadful. Insipid, boring, slow football from what I recall.

It was around this point where Poch started to ditch certain players (Remember he had had a preseason to work with some of these bad apples - Jose hasn't even had that yet).

Form improved but it was still very sporadic. Five 2-1 wins in November and December showed the team were winning but still overcoming defensive and attacking issues. We lost 3-0 to Chelsea inbetween, another hammering from a bigger team.

For the rest of the season we'd win a couple only to lose 1 in 3/4 games. We even got teared apart 3-0 by Stoke. There was also the drab 0-0 with Burnley (Paulinho shot) and the basketball game (4-3) at home to Leicester.

Poch's defensive set up then consisted of Kaboul, Fazio, Dier, Vertonghen and Chiriches. I recall he would rotate them regularly and ditched Kaboul half way through the season. Protecting that back four was Stambouli, Capoue, Bentaleb, Mason - four players not good enough and quickly out the door.

The point here is that Jose is in a very similar situation. He's got a talented bunch of players (Kane, Alli, Toby, Son) mixed with some who aren't good enough (Sissoko, Foyth, Aurier), new players still bedding in (Sessegnon, Ndombele, Lo Celso) some past their best (Vertonghen, Lloris, Rose) and some who want out (Eriksen).

Add to this the fact that Jose hasn't really had a chance to implement his style, hasn't worked out his best 11, is having players get injured and the season is half way through, it just seems incredibly complicated for him to really work well.

We are going to need a couple of windows similar to Poch's second one.
In the 2015 window he sold;
Paulinho
Soldado
Yedlin
Fazio
Stambouli
Townsend
Chiriches
Friedel
Kaboul
Capoue
Lennon
Adebayor
Holtby

He then only brought in 5 first teamers.

Now I think we may need 6 but the truth is Jose needs to declutter this squad and until he's allowed to do that and work with the squad we aren't going to see consistency and we aren't going to see what he really wants from this team. If after that we still look abject, then all criticism is fair.

 

[freeeki]

I'm still finding it difficult to be too critical of Mourinho at this point.

I think he's doing a reasonable job with what he has - and what he has is a squad full of players who are tired, injury-prone, and tactically inept after years of playing the same dreary way under Pochettino.

By 'doing a reasonable job', I mean our results have improved. They're not good enough, but they have improved, and I have faith that they'll continue to do so. I don't think Mourinho will tolerate Levy playing hard ball over the final few pence in potential transfer dealings, and this will have been made clear between them before he took the job. Levy will also, no doubt, have made it clear that there is not an unlimited pit of money to dig in to.

This current period of rot, as many have pointed out, dates back over 2-3 seasons, and I'm afraid responsibility of it lies firmly with Poch and Levy. They were the architects of this decline through shoddy transfer dealings, terrible scouting and arrogantly assuming that a squad deemed "good enough" will somehow not age or become demotivated.

It's a crucial transfer window for us. More than ever we need the club to back the manager.

 

[C1w8]

Early days down the road but 3 games in and arteta has injected a lot of energy and they have clear intent with the football they play, even if the defensive errors have still been there and cost them points.

Their squad had as many issues as ours when he took over, will be interesting to see how both teams play out the remainder of the season.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

Seeing as it's typical to compare with Poch and some are getting at Jose, I think it's worth looking at Poch's first season.

Remember when Poch first walked through the door he had a squad full of talented players who were not the most 'professional' shall we say, and some of these had lost desire (Lloris/Vertonghen).

We started of with a couple of wins (WH away and QPR at home) but these wins only papered over the cracks as we got turned over 3-0 by Liverpool at home.

In fact after Poch's first 10 games, our record read

W 4
D 2
L 4

Hardly inspiring, we'd been turned over by both WBA and Newcastle at home.

If anyone can remember the Villa win (Kanes free kick), will be able to say that the performance was absolutely dreadful. Insipid, boring, slow football from what I recall.

It was around this point where Poch started to ditch certain players (Remember he had had a preseason to work with some of these bad apples - Jose hasn't even had that yet).

Form improved but it was still very sporadic. Five 2-1 wins in November and December showed the team were winning but still overcoming defensive and attacking issues. We lost 3-0 to Chelsea inbetween, another hammering from a bigger team.

For the rest of the season we'd win a couple only to lose 1 in 3/4 games. We even got teared apart 3-0 by Stoke. There was also the drab 0-0 with Burnley (Paulinho shot) and the basketball game (4-3) at home to Leicester.

Poch's defensive set up then consisted of Kaboul, Fazio, Dier, Vertonghen and Chiriches. I recall he would rotate them regularly and ditched Kaboul half way through the season. Protecting that back four was Stambouli, Capoue, Bentaleb, Mason - four players not good enough and quickly out the door.

The point here is that Jose is in a very similar situation. He's got a talented bunch of players (Kane, Alli, Toby, Son) mixed with some who aren't good enough (Sissoko, Foyth, Aurier), new players still bedding in (Sessegnon, Ndombele, Lo Celso) some past their best (Vertonghen, Lloris, Rose) and some who want out (Eriksen).

Add to this the fact that Jose hasn't really had a chance to implement his style, hasn't worked out his best 11, is having players get injured and the season is half way through, it just seems incredibly complicated for him to really work well.

We are going to need a couple of windows similar to Poch's second one.
In the 2015 window he sold;
Paulinho
Soldado
Yedlin
Fazio
Stambouli
Townsend
Chiriches
Friedel
Kaboul
Capoue
Lennon
Adebayor
Holtby

He then only brought in 5 first teamers.

Now I think we may need 6 but the truth is Jose needs to declutter this squad and until he's allowed to do that and work with the squad we aren't going to see consistency and we aren't going to see what he really wants from this team. If after that we still look abject, then all criticism is fair.

Mourinho has inherited a far stronger squad than Poch did. He was quick to state when he got the job that we had the 3rd best squad in PL. His results and performances since would severely question this, and his ability as a so called "Super manager" to set the team up effectively and not this absolute shambles we are all currently witnessing

 

[rossdapep]

Mourinho has inherited a far stronger squad than Poch did. He was quick to state when he got the job that we had the 3rd best squad in PL. His results and performances since would severely question this, and his ability as a so called "Super manager" to set the team up effectively and not this absolute shambles we are all currently experiencing

Thats true indeed but it doesn't matter how talented your squad is, if you've got players who've lost desire and direction it's always going to be an issue.

Arsenal are different as a lot of there players haven't been at the club as long (Sokratis, Pepe, Torreira, Luiz, Tierney) and they are using a lot of youth players too. Which means players are more receptive to listening and a new voice.

We've got a situation where some players have been here so long and they've rode the good years but have nothing to show for it. We also lost what looks like the defining moment (the CL final) for the club. I imagine a lot of soul searching went on after that.

It's why the club desperately needs an injection if youth and new blood.

 

[rossdapep]

Early days down the road but 3 games in and arteta has injected a lot of energy and they have clear intent with the football they play, even if the defensive errors have still been there and cost them points.

Their squad had as many issues as ours when he took over, will be interesting to see how both teams play out the remainder of the season.

Energy is the easiest aspect to add as a new coach. It comes naturally.

Also, after listening to Emery giving them incoherent and confusing messages they have a coach giving them straight instructions.

Once the new energy wears off that's where the real business begins.

 

[whitelightwhiteheat]

So your happy with the way we continually concede possession, aimlessly hoof the ball long, struggle to string 1-2 passes together and completely avoid playing through midfield.

We'd be much better trying to play it through Eric Dier and Moussa Sissoko in CM.

Took him 6 weeks to turn us in to Wimbledon...

We were much, much, much better when we were fannying about with the ball at the back when our most completed passes during games was Davinson Sanchez to Hugo Lloris and back and our modus operandi was our goalkeeper chipping the ball over the heads of our full backs and out for a throw in...

 

[whitelightwhiteheat]

Mourinho has inherited a far stronger squad than Poch did. He was quick to state when he got the job that we had the 3rd best squad in PL. His results and performances since would severely question this, and his ability as a so called "Super manager" to set the team up effectively and not this absolute shambles we are all currently experiencing

In theory our squad is decent, the reality of the situation is different though. We have massive deficiencies which are rotting our core. Our full backs are terrible and our CM is weak - These make us an easy target to pick off.

Our results do not lie.

 

[stevenurse]

Wouldn't blame him at all if he started digging people out now. He's tried the 'I don't need players, they are good enough but need coaching' line and it's worked to an extent but the performances haven't improved much.

Wouldn't blame him at all for lighting a rocket and saying you've got 2 matches to pull yourselves together or I'm replacing you. For too long there have been too many comfortable with their place.

It's up for debate who's fault that is, but one things for sure, some need a massive kick up the arse.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

Wouldn't blame him at all if he started digging people out now. He's tried the 'I don't need players, they are good enough but need coaching' line and it's worked to an extent but the performances haven't improved much.

Wouldn't blame him at all for lighting a rocket and saying you've got 2 matches to pull yourselves together or I'm replacing you. For too long there have been too many comfortable with their place.

It's up for debate who's fault that is, but one things for sure, some need a massive kick up the arse.

I don't think even a rocket up their arse for some will even get the desired response. I would suggest he starts by having cohesive tactics and a game plan they buy into. Not too sure that many have embraced his hoof it long and possession concession tactics. He needs to start by making us harder to breakdown and by being able to retain possession is probably helpful in delivering this.

 

[Gilzeanking]

I don't think even a rocket up their arse for some will even get the desired response. I would suggest he starts by having cohesive tactics and a game plan they buy into. Not too sure that many have embraced his hoof it long and possession concession tactics. He needs to start by making us harder to breakdown and by being able to retain possession is probably helpful in delivering this.

Hoofing could be good.....if we had someone up front prepared to battle for the ball . We don't even have that !

 

[stevenurse]

I don't think even a rocket up their arse for some will even get the desired response. I would suggest he starts by having cohesive tactics and a game plan they buy into. Not too sure that many have embraced his hoof it long and possession concession tactics. He needs to start by making us harder to breakdown and by being able to retain possession is probably helpful in delivering this.

I think you're probably right, but no matter what the tactics are, there's no excuse for not being able to complete a 5 yard pass.

 

[E17yid]

If it’s true that Poch wanted a total rebuild and was sacked for that reason then it’s not looking so great now. The spin from the club, which Jose naturally followed, was that we have a fantastic squad of players that were performing well below what they should be. We saw a mini manager bounce but that looks well and truly over now and has done for at least a few weeks really.

It goes without saying that Mourinho needs time, of course he does, but if we’re all saying that Poch was right all along and we do need to overhaul this squad then maybe we should’ve written off this season and given Poch him a few more windows.

It’ll be interesting to see how this month and the summer pan out. I’m not expecting any incomings this month but if we see 3-4 out the door and the same in the summer you’ve got to feel for Poch as this is what he was saying needed to happen. Having said that Tobi has signed a new deal so maybe he is, for the most part, looking to work with this group (with a few tweaks) and in the next 18 months he’ll win us a FA, League or Europa Cup (when we finish outside top 4 this year) and we’ll look back and think it was definitely the right call to sack Poch for Mourinho. I’m not optimistic at that moment. I think it’s more than evident now, after well over a year of watching absolute shit, that we have a lot of players who, for whatever reason, are simply are not good enough. If that is true then we need to do a lot of business in the next 2-3 years really and 1, I’m not even convinced Mourinho will be around that long and 2, I don’t have enough faith in the club (board, scouting network) to recruit well enough to put us back in a place where we’re competing for top honours.

Obviously I’m fully behind Mourinho, in fact I want Mourinho to go full **** mode and shit house everything (as long as we win) so I’m still holding out hope that we get past Leipzig and play the winner of Atalanta v Valencia in the QTRs and then go onto win the Champions League after Jose eye gouges his opposite number in the final. Stranger things have happened.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

I think you're probably right, but no matter what the tactics are, there's no excuse for not being able to complete a 5 yard pass.

Our passing or inability to pass has progressively got worse since Mourinho has come in.

 

[shelfboy68]

If it’s true that Poch wanted a total rebuild and was sacked for that reason then it’s not looking so great now. The spin from the club, which Jose naturally followed, was that we have a fantastic squad of players that were performing well below what they should be. We saw a mini manager bounce but that looks well and truly over now and has done for at least a few weeks really.

It goes without saying that Mourinho needs time, of course he does, but if we’re all saying that Poch was right all along and we do need to overhaul this squad then maybe we should’ve written off this season and given Poch him a few more windows.

It’ll be interesting to see how this month and the summer pan out. I’m not expecting any incomings this month but if we see 3-4 out the door and the same in the summer you’ve got to feel for Poch as this is what he was saying needed to happen. Having said that Tobi has signed a new deal so maybe he is, for the most part, looking to work with this group (with a few tweaks) and in the next 18 months he’ll win us a FA, League or Europa Cup (when we finish outside top 4 this year) and we’ll look back and think it was definitely the right call to sack Poch for Mourinho. I’m not optimistic at that moment. I think it’s more than evident now, after well over a year of watching absolute shit, that we have a lot of players who, for whatever reason, are simply are not good enough. If that is true then we need to do a lot of business in the next 2-3 years really and 1, I’m not even convinced Mourinho will be around that long and 2, I don’t have enough faith in the club (board, scouring network) to recruit well enough to put us back in a place where we’re competing for top honours.

Obviously I’m fully behind Mourinho, in fact I want Mourinho to go full **** mode and shit house everything (as long as we win) so I’m still holding out hope that we get past Leipzig and play the winner of Atalanta v Valencia in the QTRs and then go onto win the Champions League after Jose eye gouges his opposite number in the final. Stranger things have happened.

You must be having a laugh if you think this club is going much further in the CL we have no chance of winning it or getting to the final.

 

[dagraham]

I think you're probably right, but no matter what the tactics are, there's no excuse for not being able to complete a 5 yard pass.

Or for being so passive.

 

[E17yid]

You must be having a laugh if you think this club is going much further in the CL we have no chance of winning it or getting to the final.

I definitely give little to no chance of us winning it but while I won’t exactly be shocked if Leipzig knock us out I'm half expecting us to do the job tbh. Like I said, if we then get the winner of Atalanta v Valencia in the QTR final I’d expect us to be in with a seriously good shout of going through to the semi at which point anything could happen. As unlikely as that all is.