It simply can't be all ...

[jimmy-jojo]

Good point. In fact, we could easily be sat here at this stage having beaten Liverpool at Anfield (Bale chance at the end), Man City at the Etihad (Defoe chance at the end) and Chelsea at WHL (Adebayor chance at the end). Actually, all 3 of those chances were pretty damn good and should have gotten us 3 points on each of the occasions....

To be honest, it's hard to know exactly who's fault it is when none of us are inside the club.

If we've not been taking the chances we have created, who's responsiblity is that? Surely, it has as much to do with instilling a winning mentlity into the players to TAKE the chances when they come along as it is individual ability?

 

[ajspurs]

But AJ, you could also argue that we were lucky to get a point at Anfield, and Chelsea had a glorious chance to win the game at WHL before the Adebayor chance.

Our chances stick out more, because they were ours....and late on.

Yea I guess so. I don't really know what to think on the 'who is to blame' debate if I'm completely honest. I agree with what Stoof is saying but then I agree with some points that argue that. I mean, there are things that are clearly Harry's fault, like the formation against Norwich and the setup away at Arsenal and stuff but then there are matches like the one against United at WHL in which we dominated but still lost 3-0 and it's so hard to know if there was something that Harry got wrong or did he get it right as we dominated United like we never had done before really, but still lost 3-0?

It's just such a grey area in terms of a topic for debate because no one really knows what goes on inside the club in concern with Harry, the staff, tactical discussions/decisions etc.

 

[Misfit]

That miss by Ade btw? Toddle off with your demands for 100K+. Some nerve.

 

[ajspurs]

If we've not been taking the chances we have created, who's responsiblity is that? Surely, it has as much to do with instilling a winning mentlity into the players to TAKE the chances when they come along as it is individual ability?

No I don't believe that if I'm honest. It could have an impact on their perforance as a whole and I see what you're saying but it seems stupid to say something like, 'it's Harry's fault that Bale missed that one on one away at Liverpool...', 'it's Harry's fault that Defoe never reached Bale's cross at the Etihad' etc.

If we weren't creating the chances in the first place I'd be looking at Harry, but if the players aren't taking the chances then they only have themselves to blame IMO. They're all more than talented enough to be putting away some of the chances they'd missed, even if Harry had been calling them shit ****s every day of the week in training.

 

[ShelfSide18]

It's not all Redknapp's fault at all, but of course he has made some pretty catastrophic errors in these last few months that is severely disappointing. The most baffling bit of all is that I actually think the Chelsea away, Bolton, Swansea, Sunderland 4 game run we were very good all round, dominating each game and looking watertight at the back - but Redknapp doesn't seem to trust what the overwhelming evidence is telling him.

Redknapp has got a lot right this season, but he seems reluctant to let go of the approach that has served him for 30 odd years in management and that killed our season last time around, and could well do this one too. Although in respect of how well placed we were - we went to City in January well in the title race no less - 4th was still the seasons objective and that is where we are and if Redknapp just remembers what he did for that 4 game spell a few weeks ago then I think we will do it, and we will be dining at Europe's top table next season.

Redknapp is a decent manager, he's shown that and whilst we've seen the odd hugely impressive glimpse that he can mix it with the very best - I'm thinking games like Milan in the San Siro here - I don't think it's hugely outlandish to suggest that he is unable to crack the code at the highest level. Back in our unbeaten run, I got castigated for daring to suggest this and no doubt now this view has attracted quite a few jumping on the bandwagon to agree - and some of the anti Redknapp sentiment is to be honest just wildly reactionary bile. If he leaves at the end of the season then I will thank him for taking us to where he has, I've seen my team compete in the San Siro and Bernabeu, Wembley 3 times on his watch which will always be special memories - but we need someone who can mix it at the very highest level because we have a squad that cannot hide the fact that it should be winning trophies and competing at the arse end of all trophies it's in. When Redknapp went mad with joy when we spanked Newcastle and the fans were singing 'we want you to stay...' Jonathanhotspur said how it felt like he was now one of us, and I agreed, and I do feel regret that since then it's all gone very wrong for us and him and now feel like I should be defending the guy in the face of all this hysterical criticism, but deep down I just think it is what it is, he isn't ultimately the man to take us where we should be. For the amazing unbeaten run this loss of form is just essentially the regression to the mean - the fluke wins over Fulham and Arsenal for example have levelled out with a few games recently when we probably have deserved more. I desperately hope that in a few years when we're sat pretty with a league title that we can look back at Harry's tenure fondly and remember him as the guy who got this party started.

That's all a bit rambled, but you get the drift.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

I'm with Stoof on this one. It definitely can't all be Harry's fault, in fact it isn't all his fault for sure. Now I don't quite agree with his sentiments that the manager doesn't really affect the match and if he doesn't then maybe he should. His job is to prepare the players during the week, devise a game plan, drill certain parts of our game that are going to be critical to putting in a good performance and devising ways to break down the opposition. I think based on the games we have seen of late he has fallen well short of all of those things.

However I very much doubt that his approach to games has changed much since the amazing run we were on earlier in the season. The tactics are the same (we have won games with both 442 and 4231 and recently we've lost with both) yet the players seem to be passing worse, shooting worse, tackling worse, have poorer work ethic etc. Whilst that is partly the responsibility of the coach to motivate them or bollock them, the players have to take some accountability. Every player on the pitch is there playing for the club and some of them simply aren't pulling their weight, not even nearly. How can exactly the same team go from winning 8 of 9 to losing and playing poorly in every game? I doubt Harry has gone out there and told them to do anything drastically different to when we were winning games but the individual players aren't playing nearly as well.

I do think it is down to Harry to sort it out and find a solution, that is his job of course but whilst I'd lay more of the blame at him than Stoof he certainly can't take it all, I'm far from giving the players a free pass on this.

 

[fortworthspur]

of course its not all his fault. but it is his responsibility to get us into the champions league after the start we had. to squander that would be negligent IMO. He is on the verge of a historic failure at the moment.

 

[Gilzeanking]

At the end of last season he was a **** and two games in he was still a ****, 15 games in he'd won most people around and 25 games in he was a legend and people were slitting their wrists at the thought of losing him. Now he's a ***** again.

Only on SC can you go from **** to legend and back to **** again in the space of a few games.

.

Hold up A & C . I missed the game so am not really part of the emotionalism flying around BUT I take serious issue with this completely false suggestion that other fan forums are never subject to this sort of fluctuation. Arse fans were calling for Wenger's head a coupla months ago , for instance. SC is NOT a one off , we are just the same as other football fans GOTTIT ?

 

[Gilzeanking]

But even when we were winning it wasn't by that much and it felt like luck was on our side a little. For instance, in the league, in the last 2 seasons, we have had 3 wins by a margin of 3 goals or more. Two of those times were Bolton when Cahill was sent off, and Liverpool with 9 men. Even West Bromwich, Bolton, Sunderland, Newcastle, Liverpool, and Fulham have more, in some cases double or triple. Our main "rivals" are much higher, Man City have 19 such wins, United and Arsenal have 13, and Chelsea have 10. Swansea have 3 such victories in their first season in the premier league.

Edit: United have 14 actually with their win today against Villa.

Moving along....this is a brilliant point , something I commented on during those good times....(remember them ?)
I had the impression that we got a goal up and took our foot off the pedal . Minimum effort approach , why chase after a hatful when a single goal margin will do .

I'm going to try and shoehorn this minimum effort approach , along with a passing BC remark about Harry being too nice to the players , into an overall argument that Harry's management style involves getting the players on his side , getting them to want to play for him . The opposite of say an AVB approach . Now if the players are good enough individually this can work , but there are downsides .
1. How many times can you tell a player he is great before it stops having an effect .2. Being nice to players , I imagine means
not stressing them too much in training....arduous fitness training minimised (see how knackered our players look in the last quarter) (b) not to much hassling the players over freekick /corner routines . 3 Not too much tactical brainwork or analysis info on oppo players . 4 No hairdryer treatment concerns ..its a more arm around shoulder confidence building approach .
Yeh being a Spurs player under Harry , from a working environment point of view , could be worse I imagine .

I think this is part of why we are falling away now .

The extra snag is that this overall light work regime may now be ingrained in the Spurs player's training expectations and the new man with a plan who comes in may have his work cut out trying to replace it with a more rigorous training style .

 

[rez9000]

The point that Stoof is making is that it's not all Redknapp's fault. Does that mean that Redknapp isn't at fault? No. He does share some of the responsibility for the truly shocking form we've shown since February.

But the players also carry some of the blame. There have been times when they have shown a frightening lack of concentration or desire.

And although the manager has a responsibility to make sure that his players remain focused and give their all, there is only so much he can do. He can't force a player to concentrate once he's on the pitch. What is Redknapp expected to do - run around the pitch with the players and force their heads to point towards the ball?

What can be said is that Redknapp hasn't stopped the slump. But that is one failing. It's not the only aspect of his time at Spurs. Since we last won the FA Cup, we have had something like fifteen managers. Redknapp is the longest serving of them all. Why? Because he has improved us as a club. We are moving forward.

Contrary to some, I would class this as a crisis of sorts. Not a full-blown one, 'we're all going to die' type crisis, but a crisis of sorts, because much rests on whether the problems at Spurs can be solved to a degree that allows us to get CL football next year, which I think is very important next year.

We need to support the club. That doesn't mean we can't moan or criticise, but it has to be balanced, fair and with an element of insight - not simply a vociferous attack on the manager because 'the buck stops with him'.

I was furious yesterday - I'm still smarting today. But do I think that Redknapp is solely to blame? No. Every bad result, perhaps with the exception of Norwich, has been as a result of more than just a single factor (i.e Redknapp). A&C's ire is well justified, especially as I just saw a thread suggesting that we sack Redknapp now and get Hoddle in for the last five games of the season! I mean, really...

 

[ryantegan]

Redknapp was majorly at fault yesterday for sure.

4-4-2 selected in spite of the evidence. Shocking

 

[adiepf]

Redknapp was majorly at fault yesterday for sure.

4-4-2 selected in spite of the evidence. Shocking

im just gobsmacked & the main thing for me is i live in plymouth & i have to deal with 2 "pretend" chelsea fans....god knows what some of you who live in London have to put up with...i despare for you lot i really do!

 

[SNAFU_Clarke]

There was no milk in the fridge this morning when I was trying to make my breakfast. I don't take milk in my coffee so that wasn't a problem, but if Harry Redknapp expects me to have cornflakes without milk then he's sadly mistaken. I'm not a continental, there's no way I'll have museli with water or, god forbid, orange juice on my cornflakes. It's a disgrace. He has to go frankly, the time for excuses is over.

Anyhow, I had toast in the end but that's not the point.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

I'm worried that the goal that was clearly not will dominate the discussions of the next day or so, and completely over shadow the obvious ineptitude of one Harry Redknapp, to pick, motivate and direct a very talented team to achieve at a competitive level.
It's abundantly clear that he has been found out and the longer he remains in situ, the deeper the damage will become. Levy needs to act for the best of the club, and this needs to happen quickly.

In normal circumastances, i would never suggest or demand the removal of a manager, whilst the team is still in 4th place with 5 games to go, but on this occasion, I can only see heartache if we allow Redknapp to remain and will endorse his departure.

 

[ryantegan]

im just gobsmacked & the main thing for me is i live in plymouth & i have to deal with 2 "pretend" chelsea fans....god knows what some of you who live in London have to put up with...i despare for you lot i really do!

Disgraceful.

And Modric can fucking do one as well. The guy never plays a decent game against that lot but yesterday he made no effort at all. Some people were saying in the pub before the game that he should be dropped because he is deliberately underperming to ensure a move away in the summer, which i quickly dismissed, however in hindsight

 

[Blockbuster]

The ONLY question mark on the selection was Carlo. the rest of the team picked itself.

if the players cannot be motivated by themselves over a FA Cup Semi final then they are to blame.

 

[adiepf]

if i had performed as badly at my job as he has in the last few months then i wouldnt have a job anymore...

you amaze me, at what point is the man who is employed to "manage" a football club too blame when they..

a) amass 14pts from 13 games
b) get smashed 2-5 against their rivals
c) lose a 10pt lead against said rivals & turn that into an 5pt deficit, soon to be 8!
d) get smashed 1-5 in front of millions in an fa cup semi final to their rivals
e) keeps playing a formation that he himself says is "too open" after EVERY SINGLE DEFEAT!
f) fails to learn from said defeats & play a formation that actually proves to work, ie) 433
g) constantly talks about the club as if he doesnt work for it
h) constantly undermines our history
i) always does g & h on the eve of a big game

what does this guy have to do to take the blame he deserves?...what is his job role if he isnt culpable for ALL of the above then??

is he responsible for making cups of tea or something???

 

[sigurdl]

Redknapp is a decent manager, one of the better once perhaps, but tacticly he seems to come up short. I'm not talking about formations and substitutions or players "playing in the wrong positions". These things are not as important as many people think. I'm talking about how we move on the pitch. Yes we play a classy passing game (when we play well), but off the ball movement, especially offensive, is pathetic. We tend to probe the ball slowly towards the opposition box, making sure that they have two lines of defence well-organized in the time we get there. I look at United playing at home to Alex McLeish, and time and time again they catch Villa on the brake, by making lots of intelligent runs and by attacking quickly. United, of course, is probably an unfair comparison, as few can match fergie tactically. However, I watch Fulham, and the way they attack is magnificent. There is a distinct offensive gameplan, and they play some great stuff. I mean, hallo, this is Fulham! We should get the guy who manages them I say!

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

I'm worried that the goal that was clearly not will dominate the discussions of the next day or so, and completely over shadow the obvious ineptitude of one Harry Redknapp, to pick, motivate and direct a very talented team to achieve at a competitive level.
It's abundantly clear that he has been found out and the longer he remains in situ, the deeper the damage will become. Levy needs to act for the best of the club, and this needs to happen quickly.

In normal circumastances, i would never suggest or demand the removal of a manager, whilst the team is still in 4th place with 5 games to go, but on this occasion, I can only see heartache if we allow Redknapp to remain and will endorse his departure.

Seems unlikely considering there is only one thread about the reffing decision and maybe 5 or 6 with a different twist on how bad Harry is/our performances are/our run of results are.

 

[pablo73]

I really don't think Redknapp needs anyone to defend him, he does a good enough job of that himself. Indeed, it's his shameless self promotion, defensiveness and blame shifting that is the reason he gets much less leeway than he otherwise would. I actually think he's getting a very easy ride of it (in the media) given the complete capitulation this season which exactly mirrors the one last season. The OP and many others don't seem to be able to differentiate between apportioning responsibility and blame - many people are saying think that Harry has to take responsibility - the buck stops with the manager and he's certainly happy enough to take the plaudits when things are going well. The one thing we can all be sure of, and surely all agree on, is that Redknapp will never take responsibility. It's just not in his make up.