It simply can't be all ...

[ItsBoris]

Manager in stating his job is important shock.

Fuck me, I tell my boss my job's important. Doesn't mean it's fucking true.

How much do players earn? How much do managers earn? It's actually that fucking simple.

Harry actually earns a fucking fortune, 4.5 million a year iirc.

So what is your reasoning behind the difference between Harry and Fergie, which is Harry has 1 FA cup in 30 years, while Fergie has 12 Premier Leagues, 5 FA Cups, 4 league cups, 10 charity shields, 2 Champions Leagues, 1 Cup winners cup, 1 club world cup, not to mention the 10 trophies he won with Aberdeen.

 

[Stoof]

Harry actually earns a fucking fortune, 4.5 million a year iirc.

So what is your reasoning behind the difference between Harry and Fergie, which is Harry has 1 FA cup in 30 years, while Fergie has 12 Premier Leagues, 5 FA Cups, 4 league cups, 10 charity shields, 2 Champions Leagues, 1 Cup winners cup, 1 club world cup, not to mention the 10 trophies he won with Aberdeen.

Reckon I'd probably win a cup or two at United.

Fucking simple at Bournemouth too. Yeah, let's get Fergie in charge of Bournemouth. Maybe West Ham. Or Portsmouth. Or Southampton. THEY ALL HAVE THE SAME CAPABILITY AS MANCHESTER UNITED. WITH THEIR 80,000 SEATER STADIUM. AND MILLIONAIRE BACKERS.

That's exactly the same that is. The same. I'm not sure I've ever come across a better description of something that's "the same" as I have done the various capabilites of the clubs that Ferguson and Redknapp of managed.

 

[ethanedwards]

Yes - Gallas, Cuddicini, Modric, Defoe have all failed in this match and been criticised in various threads on this and other message boards.

However, collective responsibility is down to the manager who picks the team and sets out how they play and changes formations throughout the game depending on the flow of play. Redknapp is failing repeatedly.

Agree. Harry has steered us into the iceberg, time to do the honourable thing? Nah he pushed an old lady aside and jumped into the lifeboat, that is the England job, and sailed of into the sunset.

 

[Stoof]

Yes - Gallas, Cuddicini, Modric, Defoe have all failed in this match and been criticised in various threads on this and other message boards.

However, collective responsibility is down to the manager who picks the team and sets out how they play and changes formations throughout the game depending on the flow of play. Redknapp is failing repeatedly.

I'm not saying he's blameless! (FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME). It's just not all his fault. The players have to take their share of the blame.

Sorry, am I saying something foreign? Am I being a bit clever? I don't think I am. It's quite a fucking basic concept that the players who kick the football might have a bearing on our performance. Silly me, eh?

 

[mpickard2087]

I'm not saying he's blameless! (FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME). It's just not all his fault. The players have to take their share of the blame.

Sorry, am I saying something foreign? Am I being a bit clever? I don't think I am. It's quite a fucking basic concept that the players who kick the football might have a bearing on our performance. Silly me, eh?

Stoof I dont think anyone is saying that isnt the case! Lay off the booze for tonight, get some sleep and come back to this tomorrow

 

[Stoof]

Stoof I dont think anyone is saying that isnt the case! Lay off the booze for tonight, get some sleep and come back to this tomorrow

I think this is the best idea for all concerned. Night, you lovely bastards.

 

[Mr Pink]

That's not what I'm saying at all. People are more than happy to praise the players when they play well, but neglect Redknapp's influence on them. But when they play badly, it's entirely Redknapp's fault. That's not fair, for me.

I think people think I'm saying Redknapp's blameless in this. No. He's made mistakes. But it's not all one or the other.

We're Tottenham Hotspur football club. The manager, the coaches, the players ALL HAVE TO TAKE THEIR SHARE. It can't simply be directed at Redknapp because that's fucking lazy.

Its not fucking lazy, he's the manager. He's the one at the top of the tree and everything filters down from there. Yes there have been poor performances and there are things outside of his control, but there are also things happening that are very much within his control and he keeps repeating the same mistakes, have you ever stopped to consider that one is directly affecting the other, like the tactics and how they impact on individual performance?

You can play that down as much as you like, or spin it into one big collective responsibility thing if you like and ignore the details, but personally I think that is exactly the lazy way to approach it.

Managers have to be held accountable. Yes we all know he isn't solely responsible for every little thing happening on the pitch, nor is any manager, but he has to take responsibility for the group, and the decisions he's made therein.

 

[stemark44]

It does? Then who posted these gems then? You or your arsehole?





And has your arsehole got its coaching badges?

Christ you have been a busy little digger.

I stand by all those things,we will be on a sticky wicket because there isn't really anyone in England that we can be 100% sure will lead this team to glory.
However I also believe that the 2 things that are most shocking in the English league is the lack of quality in their football managers and their referees.
I said last summer that we should get rid of Harry and go after Ancelotti and Wilkins when they were available,for me they were the dream ticket.
My arse doesn't have any badges but it has a really nice tattoo!

 

[arnoldlayne]

I'm not saying he's blameless! (FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME). It's just not all his fault. The players have to take their share of the blame.

Sorry, am I saying something foreign? Am I being a bit clever? I don't think I am. It's quite a fucking basic concept that the players who kick the football might have a bearing on our performance. Silly me, eh?

Players do take their share of the blame - repeatedly - we frequently curse them for a variety of things.

However the players do not set up the team, choose "tactics", decide on formations, choose who starts, etc (at least not since Danny Blanchflower I think), decide on transfer policy or who goes out on loan or who's fit or not fit to play, who sits on the subs bench (what is the point of having players like dos Santos who we know aren't going to get a game on the bench?!), etc.

But one person does do all of these things and is very responsible for rectifying problems when they occur.

 

[chrissivad]

understand you stoof.

harry has made some bad calls, but when the whistle goes its not harry out there kicking the ball about.

we have created plenty of chances in games we havent won, and this is down to the players on the pitch not able to finsh.

plenty of other examples, but thats the one that stands out most for me

 

[ItsBoris]

Reckon I'd probably win a cup or two at United.

Fucking simple at Bournemouth too. Yeah, let's get Fergie in charge of Bournemouth. Maybe West Ham. Or Portsmouth. Or Southampton. THEY ALL HAVE THE SAME CAPABILITY AS MANCHESTER UNITED. WITH THEIR 80,000 SEATER STADIUM. AND MILLIONAIRE BACKERS.

That's exactly the same that is. The same. I'm not sure I've ever come across a better description of something that's "the same" as I have done the various capabilites of the clubs that Ferguson and Redknapp of managed.

Look up Brian Clough.

Also the managers who succeeded Mourinho at Chelsea and Inter raked in the trophies didn't they?

You should also ask yourself why it is that Redknapp has never managed a big club besides us. Still I fail to see your point Stoof? Do you blame Redknapp at all? Do you want him gone or not? I understand you want some blame on the players for, I guess, not kicking the ball around well enough.

Another FACT is that in the last two seasons Man City have won 19 games by at least 3 goals, while we have won 3. Does the difference in quality alone account for that? Plus 2 of ours have come against 9 men and 10 men.

 

[Misfit]

Night mate. You're right btb, it's not all Harry. Well, this 4-4-2 bollox is but the players in general - and this is far from a defence of Wendy, the guy went full retard - still have the loser's mentality. Not all of them of course but it only takes a few and if they aren't shipped out....

Wendy came in and said they weren't fit enough, got them to change the diet etc. What a fucking chorus of bitching that invited from these winners. Some of those still remain.

This club needs a culture change.

A standard set that this club wants to achieve and for everyone to work together to achieve it. Anyone not on board is gone. It requires the right man being brought in by DL and backed by everyone, especially us big-mouthed fans. It isn't going to change overnight.

All I'll say about Harry is that I honestly don't think he is that man to orchestrate that, whether the Ingerlund job was in the offing or not. I still hope he can bring us another brilliant season by getting us top 4 again, even though the manner might be a little underwhelming to how it looked a couple of months back.

 

[Mr Pink]

understand you stoof.

harry has made some bad calls, but when the whistle goes its not harry out there kicking the ball about.

we have created plenty of chances in games we havent won, and this is down to the players on the pitch not able to finsh.

plenty of other examples, but thats the one that stands out most for me

I don't think anybody was arguing that the players are at fault as well but the point is the manager represents, for want of a better word, the group of players and is accountable for his influence and decision making. The buck has to stop with him at the end of the day.

I'm sure the chelsea players were at fault to under AVB, but again he lost his job because he's ultimately responsible.

 

[Misfit]

That and it's easier and cheaper to just get rid of one man.

 

[MrsKeane]

I think this is the best idea for all concerned. Night, you lovely bastards.

Sleep tight amigo and we talk to this to your heart's content later!

 

[ajspurs]

understand you stoof.

harry has made some bad calls, but when the whistle goes its not harry out there kicking the ball about.

we have created plenty of chances in games we havent won, and this is down to the players on the pitch not able to finsh.

plenty of other examples, but thats the one that stands out most for me

Good point. In fact, we could easily be sat here at this stage having beaten Liverpool at Anfield (Bale chance at the end), Man City at the Etihad (Defoe chance at the end) and Chelsea at WHL (Adebayor chance at the end). Actually, all 3 of those chances were pretty damn good and should have gotten us 3 points on each of the occasions....

To be honest, it's hard to know exactly who's fault it is when none of us are inside the club.

 

[theShiznit]

needing very little management and getting very little management are two very different things.

 

[Mr Pink]

Good point. In fact, we could easily be sat here at this stage having beaten Liverpool at Anfield (Bale chance at the end), Man City at the Etihad (Defoe chance at the end) and Chelsea at WHL (Adebayor chance at the end). Actually, all 3 of those chances were pretty damn good and should have gotten us 3 points on each of the occasions....

To be honest, it's hard to know exactly who's fault it is when none of us are inside the club.

But AJ, you could also argue that we were lucky to get a point at Anfield, and Chelsea had a glorious chance to win the game at WHL before the Adebayor chance.

Our chances stick out more, because they were ours....and late on.

 

[ItsBoris]

I don't see how the players can be at fault. If they aren't good enough they aren't good enough but I don't think anyone believes this to be the case.

If they're not putting in the necessary effort or not trying hard enough that falls on the manager's shoulders as well for not motivating them for the task at hand. What I believe is far more likely is that they are frustrated with the lack of direction and tactics in training. Sorry but 'just go run about and knock the ball about' doesn't work at the top level. You need a strategy of how to break another team down. Once again, that is down to the manager.

 

[theShiznit]

every team can go through their coulda woulda shoulda's but as Mr P says they stick out more bacause they are ours, we can remember our bad decisions from 10 years+ ago whilst most fans and pundits will have forgotten them by the time they're tucked up with ted for the night