Match Threads Colchester vs Spurs - Match Thread

[tvspur]

Just got in from work and saw the result.

So we've finally got our old Spurs back in full. After 5-6 years of daring to dream and mixing it with the big boys, we're finally back to where we were in the 70s, 80s, 90s etc., losing to the likes of Port Vale et al.

Our capitulation at L2 Colchester serves to underline the sheer arrogance of our club in putting out a weaker side in a competition that we were quite capable of winning, especially as everyone keeps saying that we need to win a trophy.

What has happened to us? I am devastated and heartbroken to witness our recent performances. What has happened to our high press? What has happened to Deli other than he is overweight and unfit. Christian Eriksen clearly doesn't want to play for us anymore.

In 2019, apart from the odd moment and some amazing CL matches, we have been nothing short of awful. Our manager continues to sprinkle cryptic nuances as to his future which now looks to be undermining the attitude of the players too.

Right now I don't know what else to say ...……...…….

 

[heelspurs]

Results and performances have been shit for a long time. Many had their heads in the sand last season because we paradoxically had our best start ever. In the first half we played crap but got results. Even in the CL we started crap and got crap results but it was the only place you could see the effort.

In the second half of the season it was complete crap all around in the league and the only place the effort was made was the CL. It almost bit us.

But from all of that the club really needed a 'painful rebuild'. Despite what some of the clueless happy clappers would have you believe some of our players are really, really poor and needed to be moved on. And beyond that many of the poorest performers had no competition...and still don't because our 'rebuild' was not remotely as extensive as it needed to be. Nearly every player (bar the youth) that started tonight would have been on my 'painful rebuild' list. Yet here they are.

I am most certainly behind Poch and will remain. His bittiness with the press is grating as I like happy Poch. But if he's signaling that things aren't great for him then I would hope he would find a better way. His tactics and choices sometimes baffle but he is still learning just like the players and he is doing it with a severe competitive disadvantage (still should be sweeping Colchester aside).

My issue is with the entitlement of fans. Sure, we got to the CL final but were not the 2nd best team in Europe. We long-balled our way there (and then inexplicably gave up on the longball in the final) and had good fortune. Our year was the year prior.

but that surprise has now become expectation in some folks minds and want Poch sacked now. Some of these are the same folks that shouted down people that have any bad thing to say about players that aren't good enough or the crap window...no, not that window but the most recent one. We needed and have needed more and better footballers for all of Poch's reign. If he can't see this then we need a DOF (and some proper scouting).

I would have loved buying lesser known (and less expensive) players than Ndombele and GLC and biting the bullet to get some of the dross out of the team because it is plentiful and painful. And I sure as feck would have gotten the contract holdouts out at any cost. They are an uncommitted cancer to the club...Eriksen, he of the will he or won't he indecision, would have been first.

But I expected this to come to a head last season. I always figured Poch's loyalty to certain players was going to get him sacked as those players are not good enough. 1 Dembele gone and we now see that.

 

[Phomesy]

I hope he means that but he has said a lot of contradictory thing in pressers lately

Well everything he said tonight is consistent with what he's been saying all pre-season so it's not like we can say he didn't warn us. He's said over and over that the squad is unsettled and that the team needs to all "buy in" which is a Poch thing.

The question is - do we now accept that Poch can get back to where we were given time and a "settled squad" or do we think the squad is NOT the problem and he is.

The problem he has is that the players he wants shipped out are also the best players he has available. So he keeps playing them. This, for me, is the crux of the issue. As someone said earlier - if his best" players aren't "buying in" then he should go full Adebayor on them and simply drop them. From the squad. But that's a massive risk. For him and Tottenham.

Either way you look at it, it sucks.

 

[gibbospurs]

Not sure how you can blame Levy for that performance

This.... he has chosen to play that midfield. Not one of us would of called that lineup as it would of got slated the shit out of. Is the bloke looking for a tidy return by getting sacked?? The mind boggles.

 

[dondo]

Poch needs to figure something out quick and we cant rely on Eriksen anymore.

Or Dele, he has been horrendous in the last few matches

 

[C0YS]

This.... he has chosen to play that midfield. Not one of us would of called that lineup as it would of got slated the shit out of. Is the bloke looking for a tidy return by getting sacked?? The mind boggles.

No he is simply thinking about the run of games coming up and playing players who need game time with little consideration of the actual game. Not a single player who started tonight seems to be in Poch's current XI. He was simply trying to rest all of them.

I honestly don't think he really cares that much about the EFL cup. Last year we went deep into it and it killed us. We were in the title race before that semi final.

Judging by the Press conference, while not happy, Poch doesn't sound to upset, and sounds very optimistic actually.

 

[Legacy]

Or Dele, he has been horrendous in the last few matches

When was the last time he actually played in that second striker role? Pochettino seems determined to give Kane a strike partner, but not the one that gave us so much success in his first few seasons.

 

[C0YS]

Or Dele, he has been horrendous in the last few matches

tbf to Poch, Dele is not really in our first XI right now. Eriksen is harder to replace. tbf. I liked what we did against Leicester. I would just put Dier in the centre and probably play Winks further forward. For me we attacked quite well that match and I don;t think we missed Eriksen at all.

 

[CowInAComa]

Just seen this scoreline. Funny stuff.

Strangely neither surprised nor remotely bothered.

 

[heelspurs]

When was the last time he actually played in that second striker role? Pochettino seems determined to give Kane a strike partner, but not the one that gave us so much success in his first few seasons.

He was literally in the left halfspace or further clogging Parrott's space all night. No more excuses for the lad as it's been 3 seasons of those. It was a league 2 outfit and yet he still looked garbage.

 

[C0YS]

Also for people that didn't watch, we were not great. We were too flat. But we were also in complete control of the game. We just were set up in the wrong way and were too slow going forwards, but not at all like the CL final kind of way. We just didn't connect midfield to attack.

 

[double0]

Just imagine Poch gets sacked tomorrow. Imagine! To think Ramos would have outlasted him from a season start.

Even if this was pretty much any other manager it is wayyy to early to even think about sacking (particularly as it isn't even a bad start).

Just imagine Poch gets sacked tomorrow. Imagine! To think Ramos would have outlasted him from a season start.

Even if this was pretty much any other manager it is wayyy to early to even think about sacking (particularly as it isn't even a bad start).

Nothing surprises me about Tottenham. I can now see him going but for me he needs time and money to fix things.

I'm actually prepared to write this season off, as early as it is, for us to start building from now. What's taken be aback is, we're lead to believe Pochettinho gives youth a go. I'd love for him to just write off completely, Wanyama Eriksen Vertonghen Rose Toby...I know some didn't play against Colchester but that's what I'd like.

Moura Son really need to be honest with themselves, look in the mirror, their inconsistencies are a joke.

 

[dondo]

When was the last time he actually played in that second striker role? Pochettino seems determined to give Kane a strike partner, but not the one that gave us so much success in his first few seasons.

Tonight

 

[mrlilywhite]

Results and performances have been shit for a long time. Many had their heads in the sand last season because we paradoxically had our best start ever. In the first half we played crap but got results. Even in the CL we started crap and got crap results but it was the only place you could see the effort.

In the second half of the season it was complete crap all around in the league and the only place the effort was made was the CL. It almost bit us.

But from all of that the club really needed a 'painful rebuild'. Despite what some of the clueless happy clappers would have you believe some of our players are really, really poor and needed to be moved on. And beyond that many of the poorest performers had no competition...and still don't because our 'rebuild' was not remotely as extensive as it needed to be. Nearly every player (bar the youth) that started tonight would have been on my 'painful rebuild' list. Yet here they are.

I am most certainly behind Poch and will remain. His bittiness with the press is grating as I like happy Poch. But if he's signaling that things aren't great for him then I would hope he would find a better way. His tactics and choices sometimes baffle but he is still learning just like the players and he is doing it with a severe competitive disadvantage (still should be sweeping Colchester aside).

My issue is with the entitlement of fans. Sure, we got to the CL final but were not the 2nd best team in Europe. We long-balled our way there (and then inexplicably gave up on the longball in the final) and had good fortune. Our year was the year prior.

but that surprise has now become expectation in some folks minds and want Poch sacked now. Some of these are the same folks that shouted down people that have any bad thing to say about players that aren't good enough or the crap window...no, not that window but the most recent one. We needed and have needed more and better footballers for all of Poch's reign. If he can't see this then we need a DOF (and some proper scouting).

I would have loved buying lesser known (and less expensive) players than Ndombele and GLC and biting the bullet to get some of the dross out of the team because it is plentiful and painful. And I sure as feck would have gotten the contract holdouts out at any cost. They are an uncommitted cancer to the club...Eriksen, he of the will he or won't he indecision, would have been first.

But I expected this to come to a head last season. I always figured Poch's loyalty to certain players was going to get him sacked as those players are not good enough. 1 Dembele gone and we now see that.

I would have thought that you learn this way before you take charge of a top flight club tbh? I am though inclined to agree with you and that he is still learning, but personally feel he needs to do that at some other club now. What he has achieved has been great, but I work in the present, not in the past and as the old saying goes "you are only as good as your last game" and Poch's last games haven't been up to the standard.

 

[Timberwolf]

A few weeks ago I said the worst thing you could level at Poch is that we just looked a badly coached outfit at present. I've never been shy of saying what I do and don't like, going into more detail/obsession than 99.9% of posters and picking things over to the nth degree, and some things we are seeing have been weaknesses that were there all along, but you could never question that we were fit, ran hard, very disciplined and the best Spurs side in 30 years in terms of application and looking well coached. If that's gone, there are problems.

And since then, its just got worse. Take tonight out of the equation, because it's virtually all games recently and goes much deeper than that. Whoever is selected - starter or reserve, superstar or kid trying to make his way in the game - it looks shambolic. One paced, ultra low tempo, little movement (often standing still), little idea, struggling to complete basic 5 yard passes, no press, wide open, defensively shaky, etc. If teams sit behind the ball we're fucked.

Individuals have to be held to account as well, but when we're just stumbling around the pitch (match after match) aimlessly and with no idea, just playing ultra safely and so hesitantly, this is a collective issue and questions have to be asked as to how this is happening and why the team is going out and playing with this mindset and approach - it has to be something they're feeding off, whether direct instruction or otherwise. But there is so much in the detail you can pick apart that shows substandard areas of our game.

Combination play for instance, how often tonight did we see Parrott, Alli, Moura all dropping off towards the ball at the same time, no harmony or trying to work off what the other(s) were doing. I saw at least a dozen times when a fullback had the ball, centre mid made a channel run (but was tracked) opening space inside for an option, when the man with the ball then is looking for said option no Spurs player has reacted and made any movement. Or late on, when Davies time and again failed to recognise that Son had moved inside and so he needed to pull wider and be the option but didn't, and so the ball couldn't be moved left and we got stuck. And so on, with literally 100's of different mechanics of the game that I could highlight, and that go together to help you play as a cohesive unit and achieve better football.

This also goes for our pressing, or lack of it. Mostly players just ambling about making half-hearted or token efforts. Sometimes a random player just chases around and gets taken out of the game as no else follows them. Very little in the way of a collective and disciplined effort. And that just leads to us being open, and then the players further back being put under a lot of pressure and/or overloaded.

Yes there are quite a lot of individuals currently who need to be showing a lot more and deserve criticism, but the manager is selecting them and when the vast majority of the squad are underperforming then the team itself has to come under the spotlight. Poch is the head honcho and the buck stops with him, he's simply got to get a grip quickly and find the solutions. There are big problems but to try and simplify it he's got to get 11 hungry players out on the pitch who want to work hard, defensively get some sort of approach in order -whether than be high press, or sitting behind the ball - carried out in disciplined fashion, and with the ball we've got to see far more urgency and evolve our attacking structures. You're not going to see 100% improvement overnight, but in the coming months we need to start making progress and ride out this real rough patch and bad run of results.

Personally though I think he deserves more time and getting rid at this point would be massively kneejerk. It's entirely possible he might not be able to fix it and at some point a change has to be made, but that's not yet. I'd even be prepared to put up with a scenario like a few more months of struggle, even if it meant this season became a write off, but then progress, fixing certain things, and a strong end to the season and ready to go onwards. He deserves a proper chance to see us out of this bad patch and revitalise the football team.

I'll engage in the hypothetical 'who next' chat though... I see a lot of calls for Mourinho as he's a winner, not for me. If some fans just want a win/trophy be all and end all, fair enough but that's not for me. I cant separate the process from the end result. For me I watch football for the game, the 90 minutes, the tactics and performances and everything in between that interests me, and to be entertained by it to my tastes and standards - I like high line, high press, possession-based technical attacking football. Of course I'd like Spurs to win every match and trophy too, but style of play and what I'm going to be watching week in week out, for me, comes first and I don't think we should just lurch to someone as they're the easily available 'winning' option.

But as I said, there are big concerns and massive improvements needed, but for now Poch has got to be given the opportunity to try and fix it.

Completely agree with this. I think in recent years our success wasn't necessarily down to our superior tactics or groundbreaking coaching, but rather a combination between fitness, application, individual brilliance and team spirit. Even at our best under Poch we rarely put together cute passing moves, rather our goals came from our pressing, our desire and Poch getting the absolute best our of talented young players.

Now the press is gone, the desire is waning and our talented not-so-young players are under-performing. All of Poch's best qualities are fading from the team and we're left with his questionable tactics, which have got more muddled and confused with each passing year. Our chance creation has been getting worse for a year, while our defence has gotten progressively leakier. We've got what most would consider the 3rd best squad in the league, yet we've been playing like a bottom half team for half a season now.

I agree we need to give Poch some more time to turn things around but with each passing week I can't help but feel it's not a matter of if but when. He's currently the 5th longest lasting serving manager in English football and it's very rare for a manager to be able to rebuild a team and keep things fresh at the end of such a long cycle. We need to give him as long as it takes, but I really think things will just slowly degrade over the coming months until we have no choice but to part ways.

As for the next man, I completely agree about Mourinho. We shouldn't trade an FA Cup or a Europa League for all the progress we've made under Poch. We need to bring in someone who can galvanise the players and move us forward, not someone who will alienate half the team, spend loads of money then leave us in a worse state than we were when he arrived.

 

[dondo]

tbf to Poch, Dele is not really in our first XI right now. Eriksen is harder to replace. tbf. I liked what we did against Leicester. I would just put Dier in the centre and probably play Winks further forward. For me we attacked quite well that match and I don;t think we missed Eriksen at all.

I would go with some sort of 433 with a midfield of winks sissoko and Ndombele as an more attacking midfielder with a forward 3 of 3 of kane son Lucas lamela

 

[gibbospurs]

No he is simply thinking about the run of games coming up and playing players who need game time with little consideration of the actual game. Not a single player who started tonight seems to be in Poch's current XI. He was simply trying to rest all of them.

I honestly don't think he really cares that much about the EFL cup. Last year we went deep into it and it killed us. We were in the title race before that semi final.

Judging by the Press conference, while not happy, Poch doesn't sound to upset, and sounds very optimistic actually.

Are you being serious.? Like seriously being serious? My God.... he could organise a friendly if he wants playing time for his fringe players. He’s finished here. He’s lost the dressing room. It’s gonna take a while before he goes but he will at some point before Xmas. Hopefully for a fee to Madrid.

 

[doctor stefan Freud]

Completely agree with this. I think in recent years our success wasn't necessarily down to our superior tactics or groundbreaking coaching, but rather a combination between fitness, application, individual brilliance and team spirit. Even at our best under Poch we rarely put together cute passing moves, rather our goals came from our pressing, our desire and Poch getting the absolute best our of talented young players.

Now the press is gone, the desire is waning and our talented not-so-young players are under-performing. All of Poch's best qualities are fading from the team and we're left with his questionable tactics, which have got more muddled and confused with each passing year. Our chance creation has been getting worse for a year, while our defence has gotten progressively leakier. We've got what most would consider the 3rd best squad in the league, yet we've been playing like a bottom half team for half a season now.

I agree we need to give Poch some more time to turn things around but with each passing week I can't help but feel it's not a matter of if but when. He's currently the 5th longest lasting serving manager in English football and it's very rare for a manager to be able to rebuild a team and keep things fresh at the end of such a long cycle. We need to give him as long as it takes, but I really think things will just slowly degrade over the coming months until we have no choice but to part ways.

As for the next man, I completely agree about Mourinho. We shouldn't trade an FA Cup or a Europa League for all the progress we've made under Poch. We need to bring in someone who can galvanise the players and move us forward, not someone who will alienate half the team, spend loads of money then leave us in a worse state than we were when he arrived.

You are very sensible

 

[C0YS]

Are you being serious.? Like seriously being serious? My God.... he could organise a friendly if he wants playing time for his fringe players. He’s finished here. He’s lost the dressing room. It’s gonna take a while before he goes but he will at some point before Xmas. Hopefully for a fee to Madrid.

Mate, I don't think he has finished here. I am being serious. He is protecting his players for more important games. It's just football in 2019. I think he aimed for them to win as well, and tbf, they should have won. But I think I know what his priority was.

Also I think the dressing room problems go deeper than Poch.

 

[double0]

I would have thought that you learn this way before you take charge of a top flight club tbh? I am though inclined to agree with you and that he is still learning, but personally feel he needs to do that at some other club now. What he has achieved has been great, but I work in the present, not in the past and as the old saying goes "you are only as good as your last game" and Poch's last games haven't been up to the standard.

I hear want you're saying, for me Pochettinho has acquired good credit in the bank. He at the very least should be allowed to build another team.