The England Thread

[Shadydan]

Has anyone got a suggestion of who should be playing LB/LWB when Chilwell is out? Saka doesn't look ready to me and Luke Shaw hasn't been in good form for a while.

If Saka isn't ready then surely he should have not been called up?

Anyway you're right, there's an incredible dearth of talent on the left compared to the right, good incentive for Sess to step up this season.

 

[nailsy]

If Saka isn't ready then surely he should have not been called up?

Anyway you're right, there's an incredible dearth of talent on the left compared to the right, good incentive for Sess to step up this season.

How is Southgate meant to know if he's ready if he doesn't call him up and see how he copes with International football? Sometimes it takes a while for players to adapt and Saka's only 19. Maybe he'll be fine in the next game, but he didn't look convincing against Wales. I can understand why he wasn't played against Belgium.

There must be other English LB's/LWB's out there. Maybe at the less fashionable clubs?

 

[Rocksuperstar]

I haven't really followed England, at least as much as I used to, for a few years now but we regularly used to do this - get a couple of good wins early doors, team starts feeling invincible and stating they could take on the world, pundits start suggesting we could go "all the way" this time, but inevitably we don't and then we look back and all agree we did get a bit over excited and maybe over hyped an average team, pat the plucky losers on the back.

This morning I wake up and see we beat Belgium, nice, then the newspapers pop up and it's all headlines about how we can beat anyone! How this team is our best chance since the 90 World Cup squad, etc...

So someone a bit more invested in the national team - is this yet another exaggerated hype train off the back of a few reasonable results and we're going to go to pieces when it actually matters, or has Southgate managed to pull together a squad?

 

[razzmaster]

How is Southgate meant to know if he's ready if he doesn't call him up and see how he copes with International football? Sometimes it takes a while for players to adapt and Saka's only 19. Maybe he'll be fine in the next game, but he didn't look convincing against Wales. I can understand why he wasn't played against Belgium.

There must be other English Lab's/LWB's out there. Maybe at the less fashionable clubs?

Left back is definitely an area we are lacking in depth.

For me Rico Henry at Brentford is the best option, but might not get picked because he plays in the Championship.

Charlie Taylor at Burnley is probably the next best young Prem LB after Chilwell

If Southgate continues to use wing backs then Saka, Sessegnon and Williams could step up this season if they play enough for their clubs

Steady Prem left backs who probably aren't quite good enough but would offer balance are Cresswell, Shaw, Bertrand and Targett.

If Rose could find a club, then he could still do a job.

Not great options but would prefer any of them to Trippier playing LWB long term.

 

[Ionman34]

I haven't really followed England, at least as much as I used to, for a few years now but we regularly used to do this - get a couple of good wins early doors, team starts feeling invincible and stating they could take on the world, pundits start suggesting we could go "all the way" this time, but inevitably we don't and then we look back and all agree we did get a bit over excited and maybe over hyped an average team, pat the plucky losers on the back.

This morning I wake up and see we beat Belgium, nice, then the newspapers pop up and it's all headlines about how we can beat anyone! How this team is our best chance since the 90 World Cup squad, etc...

So someone a bit more invested in the national team - is this yet another exaggerated hype train off the back of a few reasonable results and we're going to go to pieces when it actually matters, or has Southgate managed to pull together a squad?

Definite overhype ÌMO.

I watched the France v Portugal game last night as well, and it's not an exaggeration to say that the difference in quality and organisation is night and day.

Belgium might be ranked 1st, but I'd back both France and Portugal as being better.

Obviously, anything can happen in a knock out cup competition, but it's fairly evident to me that we are not at their level yet.

 

[Shadydan]

How is Southgate meant to know if he's ready if he doesn't call him up and see how he copes with International football? Sometimes it takes a while for players to adapt and Saka's only 19. Maybe he'll be fine in the next game, but he didn't look convincing against Wales. I can understand why he wasn't played against Belgium.

There must be other English Lab's/LWB's out there. Maybe at the less fashionable clubs?

Yeah good point, Southgate just annoys me now so I'm being unfairly harsh on him

 

[Shanks]

@Rocksuperstar massively over hyped.
We won the game, but it was an awful performance (from both teams).

playing people out of position,picking favourite players etc - pretty much like every other England manager before.

we will not win anything if we continue this way.

 

[teok]

I haven't really followed England, at least as much as I used to, for a few years now but we regularly used to do this - get a couple of good wins early doors, team starts feeling invincible and stating they could take on the world, pundits start suggesting we could go "all the way" this time, but inevitably we don't and then we look back and all agree we did get a bit over excited and maybe over hyped an average team, pat the plucky losers on the back.

This morning I wake up and see we beat Belgium, nice, then the newspapers pop up and it's all headlines about how we can beat anyone! How this team is our best chance since the 90 World Cup squad, etc...

So someone a bit more invested in the national team - is this yet another exaggerated hype train off the back of a few reasonable results and we're going to go to pieces when it actually matters, or has Southgate managed to pull together a squad?

We have a good front 3 but a bad defence. We won't win anything but it could be fun.

 

[absolute bobbins]

@Rocksuperstar massively over hyped.
We won the game, but it was an awful performance (from both teams).

playing people out of position,picking favourite players etc - pretty much like every other England manager before.

we will not win anything if we continue this way.

So... 'golden generation' mk2

 

[nailsy]

Left back is definitely an area we are lacking in depth.

For me Rico Henry at Brentford is the best option, but might not get picked because he plays in the Championship.

Charlie Taylor at Burnley is probably the next best young Prem LB after Chilwell

If Southgate continues to use wing backs then Saka, Sessegnon and Williams could step up this season if they play enough for their clubs

Steady Prem left backs who probably aren't quite good enough but would offer balance are Cresswell, Shaw, Bertrand and Targett.

If Rose could find a club, then he could still do a job.

Not great options but would prefer any of them to Trippier playing LWB long term.

Thanks - appreciate the reply.

Henry sounds interesting, but you're right that he won't get a chance.
I've got to admit that I haven't seen much of Taylor so I'll keep an eye on him. It looks like he's 27 already so not a youngster, but definitely not too old to get involved at this level.
Like you say Sessegnon and Williams would need to step up and play games this season to be in the conversation.
I've always thought Bertrand was a bit underrated, but at 31 he's probably missed his chance. Shaw looks like he'll be second choice at United this season.

I haven't really followed England, at least as much as I used to, for a few years now but we regularly used to do this - get a couple of good wins early doors, team starts feeling invincible and stating they could take on the world, pundits start suggesting we could go "all the way" this time, but inevitably we don't and then we look back and all agree we did get a bit over excited and maybe over hyped an average team, pat the plucky losers on the back.

This morning I wake up and see we beat Belgium, nice, then the newspapers pop up and it's all headlines about how we can beat anyone! How this team is our best chance since the 90 World Cup squad, etc...

So someone a bit more invested in the national team - is this yet another exaggerated hype train off the back of a few reasonable results and we're going to go to pieces when it actually matters, or has Southgate managed to pull together a squad?

As others have said we aren't the finished article yet and there are much better teams out there than us. With a few tweaks and if key players return we could do well, but I certainly wouldn't expect us to beat the likes of France if we face them.

 

[Nerine]

I really wish I could get excited by the national team. I don’t know what it is, international football just doesn’t do anything for me these days.

 

[TheTanguy]

I really wish I could get excited by the national team. I don’t know what it is, international football just doesn’t do anything for me these days.

I don't expect to get excited unless it's the quarter-finals, semi-finals or final of the Euros or World Cup. Villa away is ten times more exciting than England v Denmark in the Nations League.

 

[Shadydan]

I really wish I could get excited by the national team. I don’t know what it is, international football just doesn’t do anything for me these days.

There was a buzz after the World Cup when England qualified for the Nations League finals, I remember when we beat Croatia 2-1, it actually felt like we were pulling together as a nation and getting behind the team, morale was up from the World Cup and there was clear progression. I think now though it's a mixture of that buzz wearing off and maybe lack of crowds and the pandemic, everyone seems to have reverted back to their toxic default tribal selves, finger pointing in all directions, lack of patience and critical thinking etc...

 

[Shanks]

The bit that frustrates me, and the FA seem to have gotten away with this.
Our national team is still billed as in development,

quite frankly, that needs to fuck off.

development is what the u21’s is for and all other age groups.

england first team should be developed, the end.

pick the formation and tactics and pick the best performing players for those positions and tactics.

unfortunately, it’s a bit of a whose who, picked from an early age to play international football, the turgid way.

I’ve seen it from u14 age group, players being picked because of who their parents are, I’ve those that actially have the talent, better talent.

I know some to get through on talent, but those early stages it’s often a whose who, with very limited science because one scouts/coach’s type of player isn’t another’s.

 

[dontcallme]

The bit that frustrates me, and the FA seem to have gotten away with this.
Our national team is still billed as in development,

quite frankly, that needs to fuck off.

development is what the u21’s is for and all other age groups.

england first team should be developed, the end.

pick the formation and tactics and pick the best performing players for those positions and tactics.

unfortunately, it’s a bit of a whose who, picked from an early age to play international football, the turgid way.

I’ve seen it from u14 age group, players being picked because of who their parents are, I’ve those that actially have the talent, better talent.

I know some to get through on talent, but those early stages it’s often a whose who, with very limited science because one scouts/coach’s type of player isn’t another’s.

Problem is when you look at our players who are 27 or older:

Pope, Kane, Keane, Maguire, Mings, Rose, Trippier, Walker,Henderson, Oxlade Chamberlain and Callum Wilson.

Kane aside they are either not particularly good or on the decline.

We do have talented young players but they don’t have the experienced players to help them along.

 

[Shanks]

Problem is when you look at our players who are 27 or older:

Pope, Kane, Keane, Maguire, Mings, Rose, Trippier, Walker,Henderson, Oxlade Chamberlain and Callum Wilson.

Kane aside they are either not particularly good or on the decline.

We do have talented young players but they don’t have the experienced players to help them along.

Yep, but if that’s our level, then that’s our level of that makes sense, you can almost accept at your team being at a particular level as long as you saw the effort on the pitch (which for the most we don’t).

I could get behind the team with the World Cup run, and even the nations cup, but our sticking point will always be - what to do with a team more Wiley than us, we be some unstuck - that’s when I want to see them play more premiership style football rather than England international brand.
In fairness, theb2nd half of the Belgium match was loss better than the first.

 

[razzmaster]

Thanks - appreciate the reply.

Henry sounds interesting, but you're right that he won't get a chance.
I've got to admit that I haven't seen much of Taylor so I'll keep an eye on him. It looks like he's 27 already so not a youngster, but definitely not too old to get involved at this level.
Like you say Sessegnon and Williams would need to step up and play games this season to be in the conversation.
I've always thought Bertrand was a bit underrated, but at 31 he's probably missed his chance. Shaw looks like he'll be second choice at United this season.



As others have said we aren't the finished article yet and there are much better teams out there than us. With a few tweaks and if key players return we could do well, but I certainly wouldn't expect us to beat the likes of France if we face them.

Agree on Bertrand. Also didn't realise Taylor was 27, thought he was about 23.

 

[DogsOfWar]

I haven't really followed England, at least as much as I used to, for a few years now but we regularly used to do this - get a couple of good wins early doors, team starts feeling invincible and stating they could take on the world, pundits start suggesting we could go "all the way" this time, but inevitably we don't and then we look back and all agree we did get a bit over excited and maybe over hyped an average team, pat the plucky losers on the back.

This morning I wake up and see we beat Belgium, nice, then the newspapers pop up and it's all headlines about how we can beat anyone! How this team is our best chance since the 90 World Cup squad, etc...

So someone a bit more invested in the national team - is this yet another exaggerated hype train off the back of a few reasonable results and we're going to go to pieces when it actually matters, or has Southgate managed to pull together a squad?

For me, Sterling, Kane, and Sancho with Grealish behind them is about as good as it gets at International level.
Henderson at CM, Chilwell at LB, and TAA at right back is pretty good too.

But outside of that there is a bit drop in quality when it comes to DM, CBs, and keeper.
These are the only positions we should be experimenting with. Do we go 4-3-3 with another CM like Foden or Phillips. Or do we play an out and out DM like Rice.
We should also give Pope more time as he looks very solid. Whilst Pickford hasn't done a lot wrong for England he looks like he could implode under pressure.

So I can see where the confidence comes from as our starting eleven has a lot of attacking promise but I struggle to believe we can actually win a big tournament with our defensive unit.

 

[Shadydan]

Not sure on these shouts for Henderson in midfield, he's great for Liverpool in their system but garbage for England when he plays in that midfield.

 

[Mr Pink]

Hope Gary has a long hard look at himself for beating Belgium.