The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - THE DEADLINE

[Thenewcat]

Seriously tell me one reason why signing zaniolo was difficult?
certainly not finances

likewise for hincapie.

We aren’t a broke club. Just a tight one

I don’t know why zaniolo didn’t happen - the whole thing is weird. As for Hincapie, there are millions of possible reasons. We didn’t match an exorbitant asking price, they couldn’t line up a replacement, that’s the whole point. January signings are harder because there is less time for the dominos to fall into place

 

[[email protected]]

You are hilarious. I love people who disagree with facts. Instead of putting disagree on my posts like a child, tell me why I’m wrong. Tell me all the times top teams upgraded 3-4 positions in January and I will gladly shut up

Mate you’re missing the point. Still. The numbers are irrelevant. Can you not grasp the point that Trix was making?! Seriously?! Please mate re-read what was said. Or if not, perhaps this next quotation will give you more clarity: Trix said,
“Conte has gone through multiple windows now asking for a CB. So it's not who is available now, it's who could we have got in having 8 months of knowing this?
So we couldn't get one in the Summer, fine. So use the next 6 months to make sure you do get one at the next opportunity? Why have we waited till deadline day again to find out we can't get one again?
The fact is, this is a recurring theme and has been for years”
No one gives a fuck what other clubs have done; how many they’ve bought or not, we are only concerned with what we once again haven’t done and consistently fail to do. I think you’ve been fixating on a small part of a much bigger picture. Do you get it now mate?

 

[[email protected]]

You are hilarious. I love people who disagree with facts. Instead of putting disagree on my posts like a child, tell me why I’m wrong. Tell me all the times top teams upgraded 3-4 positions in January and I will gladly shut up

Mate, the abuse is unnecessary. I’ve answered your questions as respectfully and patiently as I could . I disagreed because I believe you are missing the point Trix was making. Disagreeing doesn’t mean disrespecting mate, and the last thing I want you to do is “shut up”; it’d be a pretty shit forum of views if you did!

 

[Thenewcat]

Mate you’re missing the point. Still. The numbers are irrelevant. Can you not grasp the point that Trix was making?! Seriously?! Please mate re-read what was said. Or if not, perhaps this next quotation will give you more clarity: Trix said,
“Conte has gone through multiple windows now asking for a CB. So it's not who is available now, it's who could we have got in having 8 months of knowing this?
So we couldn't get one in the Summer, fine. So use the next 6 months to make sure you do get one at the next opportunity? Why have we waited till deadline day again to find out we can't get one again?
The fact is, this is a recurring theme and has been for years”
No one gives a fuck what other clubs have done; how many they’ve bought or not, we are only concerned with what we once again haven’t done and consistently fail to do. I think you’ve been fixating on a small part of a much bigger picture. Do you get it now mate?

No I am not ‘missing the point’. It’s a different fucking point. If I say 2 plus 2 is 4, you can’t tell me I’m missing the point because 3 plus 3 is 6. I was responding to posters saying we should have bought 3-4 first team upgrades this window. You can choose to believe the fact that no one ever does this is irrelevant, that’s up to you. But telling me over and over that we should have signed a CB (which I have already said I agree with multiple times) doesn’t get us anywhere. For me, a great window would have been a CB and Porro. A third player (zaniolo or Danjuma) would have been stunningly good. This is not mutually exclusive from thinking we can and should do better than we do. I’m sure everyone is bored of this now so unless you actually want to disagree with the point I am making rather than a different one if your own choosing let’s leave it there

 

[[email protected]]

No I am not ‘missing the point’. It’s a different fucking point. If I say 2 plus 2 is 4, you can’t tell me I’m missing the point because 3 plus 3 is 6. I was responding to posters saying we should have bought 3-4 first team upgrades this window. You can choose to believe the fact that no one ever does this is irrelevant, that’s up to you. But telling me over and over that we should have signed a CB (which I have already said I agree with multiple times) doesn’t get us anywhere. For me, a great window would have been a CB and Porro. A third player (zaniolo or Danjuma) would have been stunningly good. This is not mutually exclusive from thinking we can and should do better than we do. I’m sure everyone is bored of this now so unless you actually want to disagree with the point I am making rather than a different one if your own choosing let’s leave it there

Take care mate. I wish you well.

 

[Thenewcat]

Mate, the abuse is unnecessary. I’ve answered your questions as respectfully and patiently as I could . I disagreed because I believe you are missing the point Trix was making. Disagreeing doesn’t mean disrespecting mate, and the last thing I want you to do is “shut up”; it’d be a pretty shit forum of views if you did!

I apologise for the ‘child’ comment. But you really need to stop telling me I’m missing Trix’s point. I agree with his post, and said so, except for the inference that it made my post invalid

 

[Trix]

I don’t know why zaniolo didn’t happen - the whole thing is weird. As for Hincapie, there are millions of possible reasons. We didn’t match an exorbitant asking price, they couldn’t line up a replacement, that’s the whole point. January signings are harder because there is less time for the dominos to fall into place

Well the reason I've heard, and I haven't had it corroborated(so take it with a large pinch of salt) which is why I haven't posted it until now, was that we couldn't shift Sanchez or Tanganga so we never pushed it. We were waiting for one of them to firm up first. Thing is you keep saying that big clubs don't usually get 3 in in January, and you are right they don't(so I've answered your question) but is that because it's so very difficult to do so, or because they don't really need to because they usually get what they need in the Summer. No one can tell me how hard things are in January, I know far better than most the added difficulties the winter window brings, but it's far from impossible. As I've said previously.... "We have wanted Porro for a good while, yet leave it until last minute to try and shave a few quid off(which we didn't btw). It's 100% a deliberate strategy to wait until the last week because in the past there's usually been more value. When you are trying to buy other clubs best players though, it doesn't happen because be it the beginning of the window or the end they still don't want to sell.

Regardless of how much revenue comes in Levy is never willing to push the boat out or take even the smallest risk to push us forward. In January we spent a month haggling for a player we paid full price for, and signed a player on loan who fell in our lap. You keep saying "The big clubs never address three major problems in January", and I've said "you're right because they address them in the Summer and then just need to tweak in January". That's the point. You keep comparing us to the other big 6 clubs, but when it comes to transfers we are not a big 6 club because we don't act like one, if we were we wouldn't be having the same post mortem after every single transfer window be it Summer or Winter.

If we were skint I'd accept it, I'd understand it, and it's why all the way through the stadium build and NDP I made allowances. I defended Levy to the hilt because he was right in what he said regarding needing that income to compete for the bigger players. "It would be a game changer". Fact is though It hasn't made the slightest bit of difference to the way we negotiate through the transfer market, we are still trying to be cute with every deal despite having the best income v outgoings differential and the highest season ticket prices in the world.

 

[Thenewcat]

Well the reason I've heard, and I haven't had it corroborated(so take it with a large pinch of salt) which is why I haven't posted it until now, was that we couldn't shift Sanchez or Tanganga so we never pushed it. We were waiting for one of them to firm up first. Thing is you keep saying that big clubs don't usually get 3 in in January, and you are right they don't(so I've answered your question) but is that because it's so very difficult to do so, or because they don't really need to because they usually get what they need in the Summer. No one can tell me how hard things are in January, I know far better than most the added difficulties the winter window brings, but it's far from impossible. As I've said previously.... "We have wanted Porro for a good while, yet leave it until last minute to try and shave a few quid off(which we didn't btw). It's 100% a deliberate strategy to wait until the last week because in the past there's usually been more value. When you are trying to buy other clubs best players though, it doesn't happen because be it the beginning of the window or the end they still don't want to sell.

Regardless of how much revenue comes in Levy is never willing to push the boat out or take even the smallest risk to push us forward. In January we spent a month haggling for a player we paid full price for, and signed a player on loan who fell in our lap. You keep saying "The big clubs never address three major problems in January", and I've said "you're right because they address them in the Summer and then just need to tweak in January". That's the point. You keep comparing us to the other big 6 clubs, but when it comes to transfers we are not a big 6 club because we don't act like one, if we were we wouldn't be having the same post mortem after every single transfer window be it Summer or Winter.

If we were skint I'd accept it, I'd understand it, and it's why all the way through the stadium build and NDP I made allowances. I defended Levy to the hilt because he was right in what he said regarding needing that income to compete for the bigger players. "It would be a game changer". It hasn't made the slightest bit of difference to the way we negotiate through the transfer market though, trying to be cute with every deal despite having the best income v outgoings differential and the highest season ticket prices in the world.

I agree with everything except other teams definitely have needed January signings and haven’t made them either. Are Liverpool fans happy they only got one in this window and didn’t address the midfield? When Arsenal, Chelsea and United have been much further off CL places than we are now with multiple holes in the last few years they haven’t done it either. Surely there’s a reason this is the case. It doesn’t invalidate anything else you’ve said about the levy approach. If we didn’t sign a CB because we couldn’t shift Tangana i think thats ludicrous and totally underlines the point that levy is holding us back

 

[mr ashley]

Well the reason I've heard, and I haven't had it corroborated(so take it with a large pinch of salt) which is why I haven't posted it until now, was that we couldn't shift Sanchez or Tanganga so we never pushed it. We were waiting for one of them to firm up first. Thing is you keep saying that big clubs don't usually get 3 in in January, and you are right they don't(so I've answered your question) but is that because it's so very difficult to do so, or because they don't really need to because they usually get what they need in the Summer. No one can tell me how hard things are in January, I know far better than most the added difficulties the winter window brings, but it's far from impossible. As I've said previously.... "We have wanted Porro for a good while, yet leave it until last minute to try and shave a few quid off(which we didn't btw). It's 100% a deliberate strategy to wait until the last week because in the past there's usually been more value. When you are trying to buy other clubs best players though, it doesn't happen because be it the beginning of the window or the end they still don't want to sell.

Regardless of how much revenue comes in Levy is never willing to push the boat out or take even the smallest risk to push us forward. In January we spent a month haggling for a player we paid full price for, and signed a player on loan who fell in our lap. You keep saying "The big clubs never address three major problems in January", and I've said "you're right because they address them in the Summer and then just need to tweak in January". That's the point. You keep comparing us to the other big 6 clubs, but when it comes to transfers we are not a big 6 club because we don't act like one, if we were we wouldn't be having the same post mortem after every single transfer window be it Summer or Winter.

If we were skint I'd accept it, I'd understand it, and it's why all the way through the stadium build and NDP I made allowances. I defended Levy to the hilt because he was right in what he said regarding needing that income to compete for the bigger players. "It would be a game changer". Fact is though It hasn't made the slightest bit of difference to the way we negotiate through the transfer market, we are still trying to be cute with every deal despite having the best income v outgoings differential and the highest season ticket prices in the world.

Thank you!
hopefully know we can move past the “other teams haven’t so why should we?” argument (conveniently ignoring what we need)

honestly I’d just love to see us announce some deals at the start of the windows for once, because we’d identified the talent and decided we valued them accordingly.

Until that happens we’ll forever be alsorans

 

[Enzo]

Well the reason I've heard, and I haven't had it corroborated(so take it with a large pinch of salt) which is why I haven't posted it until now, was that we couldn't shift Sanchez or Tanganga so we never pushed it. We were waiting for one of them to firm up first. Thing is you keep saying that big clubs don't usually get 3 in in January, and you are right they don't(so I've answered your question) but is that because it's so very difficult to do so, or because they don't really need to because they usually get what they need in the Summer. No one can tell me how hard things are in January, I know far better than most the added difficulties the winter window brings, but it's far from impossible. As I've said previously.... "We have wanted Porro for a good while, yet leave it until last minute to try and shave a few quid off(which we didn't btw). It's 100% a deliberate strategy to wait until the last week because in the past there's usually been more value. When you are trying to buy other clubs best players though, it doesn't happen because be it the beginning of the window or the end they still don't want to sell.

Regardless of how much revenue comes in Levy is never willing to push the boat out or take even the smallest risk to push us forward. In January we spent a month haggling for a player we paid full price for, and signed a player on loan who fell in our lap. You keep saying "The big clubs never address three major problems in January", and I've said "you're right because they address them in the Summer and then just need to tweak in January". That's the point. You keep comparing us to the other big 6 clubs, but when it comes to transfers we are not a big 6 club because we don't act like one, if we were we wouldn't be having the same post mortem after every single transfer window be it Summer or Winter.

If we were skint I'd accept it, I'd understand it, and it's why all the way through the stadium build and NDP I made allowances. I defended Levy to the hilt because he was right in what he said regarding needing that income to compete for the bigger players. "It would be a game changer". Fact is though It hasn't made the slightest bit of difference to the way we negotiate through the transfer market, we are still trying to be cute with every deal despite having the best income v outgoings differential and the highest season ticket prices in the world.

Just imagine Tanganga not leaving being the reason not to fully commit to a quality CB......

Even for us surely he must be irrelevant (seems a lovely lad by the way, strong family values) in both valuation and wages, a promoted youth player on relative peanuts.

 

[Trix]

I agree with everything except other teams definitely have needed January signings and haven’t made them either. Are Liverpool fans happy they only got one in this window and didn’t address the midfield? When Arsenal, Chelsea and United have been much further off CL places than we are now with multiple holes in the last few years they haven’t done it either. Surely there’s a reason this is the case. It doesn’t invalidate anything else you’ve said about the levy approach. If we didn’t sign a CB because we couldn’t shift Tangana i think thats ludicrous and totally underlines the point that levy is holding us back

Again every club has windows where they fail to add what they need. We do it EVERY WINDOW!!!

 

[SheffieldAndy]

Again every club has windows where they fail to add what the need. We do it EVERY WINDOW!!!

We failed to add everything we need I agree, we definitely added something we massively needed in Porro

 

[Trix]

We failed to add everything we need I agree, we definitely added something we massively needed in Porro

And I don't disagree. I don't think I've read a single post that doesn't agree we've strengthened at RWB, but again we could and should have done more considering how things played out in the Summer and during this window. It's your prerogative to see the positives over the window as a whole if that's what you want to do, but I'm not the window as a whole was, "we did enough", but it's not the mentality of an ambitious club with plenty in the bank and a a lot of credit as far as FFP is concerned.

 

[mr ashley]

I don’t know why zaniolo didn’t happen - the whole thing is weird. As for Hincapie, there are millions of possible reasons. We didn’t match an exorbitant asking price, they couldn’t line up a replacement, that’s the whole point. January signings are harder because there is less time for the dominos to fall into place

None of these reason are acceptable from a club with aspirations to win or even qualify for the CL (and you know it full well)
Leaving a transfer too late?
Amateur hour
Bidding too low for a player out of our price range?
Embarrassing behaviour.
Making out that it’s only possible to negotiate a deal in the 31 days of january- give it a rest

market value for hincapie is between £30-40m id suggest, once you’ve considered the sale price for badiashile and the asking price for bastoni (who we also chose to lowball btw). Yet by all accounts we opened the bidding at £23m. If you’re going to fuck other teams about then rightly you won’t sign the players you need.

we could have easily signed him if we were serious about it. But this club prefers to say ‘we tried’

At least you could stomach that back at the old stadium. There no excuse now

 

[SheffieldAndy]

And I don't disagree. I don't think I've read a single post that doesn't agree we've strengthened at RWB, but again we could and should have done more considering how things played out in the Summer and during this window. It's your prerogative to see the positives over the window as a whole if that's what you want to do, but I'm not the window as a whole was "just did enough".

I totally agree, and I’m not personally seeing the positives over the negatives, there are definitely piles of both, and potentially sizeable piles. The window was just enough, and as was summer (with hindsight for me personally, I liked the business at the time). I just wanted to temper people against rallying in the ‘we always fail to add what we need’ part, as it’s not that we fail to add what we need, it’s that we fail add as much as we need.

 

[Trix]

I totally agree, and I’m not personally seeing the positives over the negatives, there are definitely piles of both, and potentially sizeable piles. The window was just enough, and as was summer (with hindsight for me personally, I liked the business at the time). I just wanted to temper people against rallying in the ‘we always fail to add what we need’ part, as it’s not that we fail to add what we need, it’s that we fail add as much as we need.

We needed a CB, we made that a priority, we didn't get one, we failed to add what we needed.

 

[SheffieldAndy]

We needed a CB, we made that a priority, we didn't get one, we failed to add what we needed.

Again I agree, but apparently we also identified RWB as a priority. Which we added. I’m not railing against you here, I don’t want you to think that, but it’s still we didn’t add all we needed, rather than we didn’t add what we needed.

 

[SheffieldAndy]

We needed a CB, we made that a priority, we didn't get one, we failed to add what we needed.

I’d also dread to think what would be being said in the forum if we added Hinacapie and not Porro ?

 

[vegassd]

honestly I’d just love to see us announce some deals at the start of the windows for once, because we’d identified the talent and decided we valued them accordingly.

We definitely need another Summer like last year... the 5 main signings in by the first week of July or whatever it was. 2 of those were on frees of course (which we probably won't have the luxury of this coming Summer) but if we can do 3 critical positions early that will allow for us doing the hokey-cokey somewhat for the rest of the Summer.

What I reckon is the real stick in the mud here - based on what Trix is saying and the general view from outside - is that we aren't getting the blend right of when to splurge and when to haggle. Levy hasn't adjusted to the "big club" vibe. I guess someone like Spence is a fair enough one to thrash out because he's not an instant first choice. But Porro should have been the top priority and done quickly. Or if that deal is done slowly, it is to manage the budget for an additional incoming, which in the end never happened.

I think the outs need to happen this Summer for sure. Ndombele, Lo Celso, Reguilon, Winks have to be gone ASAP. Then if Rodon, Tanganga and Sanchez are not deemed worthy then get them out too. They seem to be hurting us disproportionately. It's a big ask at the best of times, which I think feeds into the feeling that this January was kinda wasted. And unless Levy can stomach taking a loss on these players it's like we're playing with the handbrake on.

 

[Thenewcat]

None of these reason are acceptable from a club with aspirations to win or even qualify for the CL (and you know it full well)
Leaving a transfer too late?
Amateur hour
Bidding too low for a player out of our price range?
Embarrassing behaviour.
Making out that it’s only possible to negotiate a deal in the 31 days of january- give it a rest

market value for hincapie is between £30-40m id suggest, once you’ve considered the sale price for badiashile and the asking price for bastoni (who we also chose to lowball btw). Yet by all accounts we opened the bidding at £23m. If you’re going to fuck other teams about then rightly you won’t sign the players you need.

we could have easily signed him if we were serious about it. But this club prefers to say ‘we tried’

At least you could stomach that back at the old stadium. There no excuse now

Again you seem to be telling me things I agree with. The only thing I don’t is the idea that all we had to do is snap our fingers to get Hincapie. We simply don’t know that. They probably wouldn’t sell without a replacement, and by all accounts opened with a price of 70-80m which makes our opening bid a bit more understandable. Individual deals are hard. Buying 3-4 players in January is obviously hard. But I 1000% agree we should have bought a CB by now