Team v West Ham

[Archibald&Crooks]

What is snidey about calling someone a fat waste of space?

Or the dutch soldado, or fatssen or........

Snide.

There's really no need for it.

 

[AndyReid_N17]

Or the dutch soldado, or fatssen or........

Snide.

There's really no need for it.

Fat Vince?

 

[millsey]

Or the dutch soldado, or fatssen or........

Snide.

There's really no need for it.

God?

 

[oskathegobshite]

Assuming Alli and Lamela are both out I will go with the OP's formation however I would rest the first choice full-backs here as West Ham are pony and we have some tough games coming up

-----------------------------Lloris---------------------------
-------------Dier---Alderweireld---Vertonghen--------
--Trippier---------Wanyama----Dembele----------Davies----
---------------------------Eriksen----------------------------------
-----------------Kane-----------------Janssen--------

Bench - Son, Vorm, Wimmer, Rose, Walker, Winks, N'Koudou

 

[Shanks]

Wow that's different to the rest of us

No shit numbnuts.

 

[AndyReid_N17]

What's is this obsession with calling him fat?

Is it because every time he shags your missus she gives him a biscuit?

I lost my partner last year to cancer.

 

[Cravenspurs]

Stay with the new tactics or go with the back 4 again?
We definitley need three points to keep contact with the top 4 and regain some confidence.
Needless to say it is always a must win versus West Ham.

I quite like the idea of having our full backs higher up the pitch, so I'd probably try it once more. Would be interested to see Kane and Janssen both starting and getting on the end of some crosses the fbs deliver.

--------------------------Lloris---------------------------
-----------Dier---------Alderweireld---Vertonghen--------
--Walker---------Wanyama----Dembele----------Rose----
---------------------------Eriksen----------------------------------
-----------------Kane------------------Janssen------------------

Subs: Vorm, Wimmer, Trippier, Winks, Lamela, Son, Sissoko/ NKoudou

I don't want this to come off as rude, but the bolded line makes no sense. Their starting positions and the majority of time they spent on the pitch last game was identical to where they played in our 4231 or 4141. We have, since Poch's arrival, been hyper vigilant in getting our FBs up the pitch. They have been our starters of attacks for years now.

This 3 at the back formation is nothing new folks! We played with 3 CBs for the majority of games last year when Dier dropped deep. Sure there are slight adjustments between the two, but these are 95% the same formation as our 4231 which morphs into a 3-3-4 of sorts when moving forward and it dropped to a 5-3-1 of sorts when pushed into our own end. Last year Dier sat at the top of the box as a CB and Dembele harassed ball carriers when teams were parked around our box.

Player positions for game against Arsenal (2015-2016 vs 2016-2017)

Yesterday's game (Tottenham Blue)

2015-2016 (Tottenham Orange)

What you can see here is the FBs have the same position up the pitch. The major difference being we have one less midfielder that can help us move the ball up the pitch, thus we hit too many long balls and we're overly dependent on our FBs to get the ball up the pitch.

 

[Cravenspurs]

Your dropping Wanyama and Dembele? Lol

Yes, @millsey i am. If you have been on the boards recently you would know why.

 

[Cheltenham Spur]

I lost my partner last year to cancer.

Deleted with apologies.

 

[TheHoddleWaddle]

Yes, @millsey i am. If you have been on the boards recently you would know why.

Hard to drop Dembele after the last game. If he is getting back to form. Drives the team forward which has been desperately missed.

 

[DJS]

What is snidey about calling someone a fat waste of space?

Why do you have to get so personal about him?

You can say he's a crap player but not really warranted making personal remarks about him (I suspect he's probably more hench then you as well lol ).

 

[TheHoddleWaddle]

If Vincent Janssen is fat, then fook me my 34" waist is obesity! Where's the treadmill! Bring out the fruit! Fat bastard coming through.

Edit. I cannot train my brain, I keep calling him Theo.! No idea why

 

[widmerpool]

Particularly odd coming from someone named after Andy Reid, who was no waif.

 

[Cravenspurs]

Hard to drop Dembele after the last game. If he is getting back to form. Drives the team forward which has been desperately missed.

I agree and disagree. If he plays in the middle he is a detriment to the team. If he plays up the pitch, I am all for it.

I need to really put together an analysis video of Dembele as a CM cause I really do think people are infatuated by his ability to shield the ball and turn, which is all fine and dandy, but it is what he does after that, that has my panties in a bunch.

I ask, cause I don't have to time to sit and edit video, to watch Dortmund, Liverpool, Chelsea, Madrid and the rest of the teams that are banging in goals and ask yourself this. How is their CM pairing playing. Weigel, Henderson, Can and the rest are quicker to move the ball into attack.

Also ask yourself this. Why do we consistently struggle to break teams down? Why do teams always seem to "Park the Bus" against us? Because we play so bloody slow and conservative.

Yesterday, when either Dembele or Wanyama for that matter won the ball, they either 1) played it back 2) played it sideways to the FB 3) held onto the ball and dribbled it forward.

In order to find space and take advantage of the opposing teams holes in their shape, that transition must become lightening quick like Henderson did yesterday or how Weigel does everyday for Dortmund.

Dembele drives us forward when up the pitch, yes. But he slows us down when behind the midline and is a detriment to our goal scoring dreams.


Now negative rep me because I disagree with the majority of you and I talked ill (which I didn't, cause I actually love the man, just think he isn't suited for a CM2) of Dembele.

 

[TheHoddleWaddle]

I agree and disagree. If he plays in the middle he is a detriment to the team. If he plays up the pitch, I am all for it.

I need to really put together an analysis video of Dembele as a CM cause I really do think people are infatuated by his ability to shield the ball and turn, which is all fine and dandy, but it is what he does after that, that has my panties in a bunch.

I ask, cause I don't have to time to sit and edit video, to watch Dortmund, Liverpool, Chelsea, Madrid and the rest of the teams that are banging in goals and ask yourself this. How is their CM pairing playing. Weigel, Henderson, Can and the rest are quicker to move the ball into attack.

Also ask yourself this. Why do we consistently struggle to break teams down? Why do teams always seem to "Park the Bus" against us? Because we play so bloody slow and conservative.

Yesterday, when either Dembele or Wanyama for that matter won the ball, they either 1) played it back 2) played it sideways to the FB 3) held onto the ball and dribbled it forward.

In order to find space and take advantage of the opposing teams holes in their shape, that transition must become lightening quick like Henderson did yesterday or how Weigel does everyday for Dortmund.

Dembele drives us forward when up the pitch, yes. But he slows us down when behind the midline and is a detriment to our goal scoring dreams.


Now negative rep me because I disagree with the majority of you and I talked ill (which I didn't, cause I actually love the man, just think he isn't suited for a CM2) of Dembele.

Good points. Personally, I'd rather see him on the right of an AM3, where he has played before and was a right old handful. But I think he is still effective in the 2. He made some good surging runs and had an excellent pass completion rate yesterday.

The slowness of play, however, I tend to think is more about the AM3 than the CM2. It's been ponderous at times, stop, look pass sideways, probe for a pass through the middle when opposition pack it out.

Our wings were more adventurous yesterday, and provided us more width which helped. Vast improvements yesterday though.

 

[Cheltenham Spur]

Assuming everyone is fit after the annoying international break:

Lloris
Walker Toby Verts Rose
Wanyama Winks
Lamela Eriksen Dembele
Kane
​

Subs - Vorm Trippier CCV Dier Alli Nkoudou Janssen

 

[TheHoddleWaddle]

Is Lamela still out for this game?

 

[Cravenspurs]

Good points. Personally, I'd rather see him on the right of an AM3, where he has played before and was a right old handful. But I think he is still effective in the 2. He made some good surging runs and had an excellent pass completion rate yesterday.

The slowness of play, however, I tend to think is more about the AM3 than the CM2. It's been ponderous at times, stop, look pass sideways, probe for a pass through the middle when opposition pack it out.

Our wings were more adventurous yesterday, and provided us more width which helped. Vast improvements yesterday though.

His surging runs are nice, but he reverts to those runs all the time verse a simple 20 yard pass that splits the lines and keeps the defense from collapsing.

What I think people are not realizing is space is an issue. When attacking, after winning the ball back, or when the defense is set, there are lines of defense. When a player, Dembele in this instance, is facing those lines they can either pick a pass that slices through those lines, or they can make a run and split them themselves. Now if you choose to do the latter, you need to Coutinho that bitch and continue on with your run and attempt to create cause now you just put an extra body and have forced that line of defense you just broke, to collapse. With Dembele he breaks that line with his run, but then stops and holds the ball or he passes it back. When he does that, he not only forces the defensive lines to become compact, he adds himself into the mix which makes for even less space.

So in short, he eats up valuable space with his constant runs. Sometime you need to break that line with a pass and then run into that area. Not run into that area, pause, and recycle.

As for slowness, I disagree. That again is down to the CM2. Logic follows the same thing above in the sense that we allow teams to get back into shape and then we slowly, self inflicted, force their lines to become so compact that the AM3 have no space to work with. If the CM2 get the ball up the pitch to our Attacking line, with space, we would be seeing more of the Eriksen, Alli, Lamela, Son, Kane we would like.

Again, I disagree. We looked a bit better due to Harry being up top as he just adds a different dimension, but I would say our FBs were still the bridge for our attacks, as they have been for a couple years.

BTW: thanks for the debate and discussion rather than "you're wrong. Go cheer on another team you hater" type flaming remarks we sometimes get.

 

[millsey]

Yes, @millsey i am. If you have been on the boards recently you would know why.

Anything to do with wanyama being our best player this season, Dier being out of form, winks never played at this level and Dembele being magnificent on Sunday?

 

[Cravenspurs]

Anything to do with wanyama being our best player this season, Dier being out of form, winks never played at this level and Dembele being magnificent on Sunday?

Hey @millsey you can check my prior 100 posts or so, I think they all paint the same picture. I am here to discuss our Spurs and not take petty snipes at people's opinions. Your patronizing post is fine, but if you actually want to know my opinion and discuss it, you can do your research.