Spurs v Prague Ratings

[Stoof]

unfortunately for the Finn i don't think we'll be seeing him again in a significant match for Spurs.

Sloth, you're a clever chap, and we've duelled on Tainio before, but I really really question the thinking behind this statement. Out of position as a right back, he did a relatively good job. He definitely did better than an in-position Kaboul!

I know people offer the argument that he's all effort and no product, but the number of times he saved our bacon with back post headers were too numerous to count. He put in some crunching tackles. Yes he got turned inside out a couple of times, but he recovered. Yes, he gave the ball away a couple of times (no more than any other player: including Berbatov) but the difference with TT? He'll go hell-for-leather to get it back. And more often than not he succeeds.

No other player does that, and for me why he should start next to JJ as the midfield destroyer like he did in the Arsenal Semi.

 

[sloth]

Sloth, you're a clever chap, and we've duelled on Tainio before, but I really really question the thinking behind this statement. Out of position as a right back, he did a relatively good job. He definitely did better than an in-position Kaboul!

I know people offer the argument that he's all effort and no product, but the number of times he saved our bacon with back post headers were too numerous to count. He put in some crunching tackles. Yes he got turned inside out a couple of times, but he recovered. Yes, he gave the ball away a couple of times (no more than any other player: including Berbatov) but the difference with TT? He'll go hell-for-leather to get it back. And more often than not he succeeds.

No other player does that, and for me why he should start next to JJ as the midfield destroyer like he did in the Arsenal Semi.

I know you think that, but I think you're wrong :grin:. More to the point I'm virtually 100% Ramos agrees with me (as in has the same opinion not as in thinks "you know what, that Sloth character's right!", although if he comes on here I expect that's pretty much what he does think).

I'll stick by my statement that (barring injuries) Tainio won't start another significant game for us. Which means I'm also certain he won't start on Sunday. At least we won't have long to find out if I'm right on the latter.

 

[full-frontal-nudity]

I went to the game, quite frankly spurs were shit.

 

[Stoof]

I know you think that, but I think you're wrong :grin:. More to the point I'm virtually 100% Ramos agrees with me.

And I get accused of being arrogant ...

 

[yanno]

Sloth, you're a clever chap, so how can you assert that because Teemu has yet another ordinary game played out of position he will therefore never start another significant match for us?

I agree with Stoof that Teemu did, as usual, give a totally committed performance in a Spurs shirt. All the more admirable since we all know his limbs are made of china, and if any player is likely to get a minor knock that keeps him out for two games, then it's Teemu.

I have absolutely no idea who Juande will play next to JJ on Sunday. I know I want him to play Teemu because I believe he is the Spurs player most likely to be able to combat the threat of Chelski's AMer (whether it's Bollock or Fat Frank). But I wouldn't be in the least surprized if Juande picked the Hud or Zokora, even though they were both pretty poor last night.

 

[sloth]

I agree with Stoof that Teemu did, as usual, give a totally committed performance in a Spurs shirt. All the more admirable since we all know his limbs are made of china, and if any player is likely to get a minor knock that keeps him out for two games, then it's Teemu.

I agree he was committed and that it's admirable. It's just that other than Chimbonda for me he was the poorest player on the pitch. It's unfair on him though because as you in particular have pointed out he's not a RB he's a CM and a very fine one at that.

I have absolutely no idea who Juande will play next to JJ on Sunday. I know I want him to play Teemu because I believe he is the Spurs player most likely to be able to combat the threat of Chelski's AMer (whether it's Bollock or Fat Frank). But I wouldn't be in the least surprized if Juande picked the Hud or Zokora, even though they were both pretty poor last night.

I think that's being a little disingenuous, if I may say so, you have a pretty good idea who Ramos is going to lay for the most part. Injuries aside we can be certain of 9 out of the 11, with the lynch-pin being King. Let's for the purpose of this discussion though assume King is fit. Tainio will not partner JJ imo. If you think he will fair enough. If you have your doubts (as you appear to) say what they are, why do you think Tainio might not start?

 

[sloth]

And I get accused of being arrogant ...

There's a difference between being arrogant Stoof and being right :grin:

 

[Stoof]

There's a difference between being arrogant Stoof and being right :grin:

:wink:

I know this.

So if you're opinion does become right, we'll see.

Until then, you're playing the arrogance card. It's one of my favourites.

 

[yanno]

I think that's being a little disingenuous, if I may say so, you have a pretty good idea who Ramos is going to lay for the most part. Injuries aside we can be certain of 9 out of the 11, with the lynch-pin being King. Let's for the purpose of this discussion though assume King is fit. Tainio will not partner JJ imo. If you think he will fair enough. If you have your doubts (as you appear to) say what they are, why do you think Tainio might not start?

Hopefully neither Juande nor Gus will be "laying" anyone... mg:

Dontcha just hate typos? :wink:

Sloth - with respect, I wrote "I have absolutely no idea who Juande will play next to JJ on Sunday". Ie who the other CM player will be.

I agree that most of the rest of the team is predictable, assuming Ledley is fit enough to start. Robbo will probably get the nod in goal. Hutton will come in at RB and, if fit, Chimbo will be LB to counter Anelka or SWP. So, the only really unknowable position is next to JJ (as I wrote).

I have mucho respect for Ramos. His tactical awareness has impressed me greatly, and with Alvarez, the nutritionist, and Gus, they've clearly improved the players' fitness levels. Juande has been very bold in experimenting with player's postions - eg experimenting Zokora and the Hud at CB.

However, when he became our coach, I wrote on SC that the player he would be most likely to go back to Sevilla for was not Kanoute or Alves (great as they are), but Poulsen. Why? Because I felt our squad was missing a disciplined, teamshape aware, C/DM like Poulsen. Now, the nearest thing our squad has to Poulsen is Tainio. Yet week after week after becoming coach, Ramos did not pick Tainio. Now, he's continuing to pick Teemu at RB, which I do not think is his position.

Now, even great coaches are allowed a blind spot. And I think Ramos' blind spot may be Tainio, despite his outstanding performances at C/DM on the couple of occasions when Ramos has picked him there. And so, I would not be surprized to see Ramos pick either the Hud or Zokora next to JJ on Sunday.

I'm not having a dig at Ramos. I think he's a great coach, and I'm delighted he's in charge of Spurs. Also, Jol hardly ever picked Tainio in CM. So, that's two coaches, which means I'm probably wrong. There's probably a reason why both Ramos and Jol seem reluctant to play Tainio in CM, and it's me who has the blind spot.

Come August, it will be academic anyway, since I strongly suspect we'll sign at least one top class C/DM.

 

[Evolution]

I have a sneaky feeling it will be Zokora next to JJ on Sunday with Teemu being brought on late in to secure a lead perhaps. We shall see I guess

 

[Leigh]

but the difference with TT? He'll go hell-for-leather to get it back. And more often than not he succeeds.

No other player does that, and for me why he should start next to JJ as the midfield destroyer like he did in the Arsenal Semi.

This, my friend, is gospel.

 

[sloth]

Hopefully neither Juande nor Gus will be "laying" anyone... mg:

Dontcha just hate typos? :wink:

Sloth - with respect, I wrote "I have absolutely no idea who Juande will play next to JJ on Sunday". Ie who the other CM player will be.

Ah yes, my bad on both. Sorry

I agree that most of the rest of the team is predictable, assuming Ledley is fit enough to start. Robbo will probably get the nod in goal. Hutton will come in at RB and, if fit, Chimbo will be LB to counter Anelka or SWP. So, the only really unknowable position is next to JJ (as I wrote).

I have mucho respect for Ramos. His tactical awareness has impressed me greatly, and with Alvarez, the nutritionist, and Gus, they've clearly improved the players' fitness levels. Juande has been very bold in experimenting with player's postions - eg experimenting Zokora and the Hud at CB.

However, when he became our coach, I wrote on SC that the player he would be most likely to go back to Sevilla for was not Kanoute or Alves (great as they are), but Poulsen. Why? Because I felt our squad was missing a disciplined, teamshape aware, C/DM like Poulsen. Now, the nearest thing our squad has to Poulsen is Tainio. Yet week after week after becoming coach, Ramos did not pick Tainio. Now, he's continuing to pick Teemu at RB, which I do not think is his position.

Now, even great coaches are allowed a blind spot. And I think Ramos' blind spot may be Tainio, despite his outstanding performances at C/DM on the couple of occasions when Ramos has picked him there. And so, I would not be surprized to see Ramos pick either the Hud or Zokora next to JJ on Sunday.

I'm not having a dig at Ramos. I think he's a great coach, and I'm delighted he's in charge of Spurs. Also, Jol hardly ever picked Tainio in CM. So, that's two coaches, which means I'm probably wrong. There's probably a reason why both Ramos and Jol seem reluctant to play Tainio in CM, and it's me who has the blind spot.

Come August, it will be academic anyway, since I strongly suspect we'll sign at least one top class C/DM.

Aha!!! [sloth looks very pleased with himself as he springs his cunningly laid trap], But you don't have to imagine Ramos with a blind-spot to see why he doesn't play Tainio!!! Perhaps it's you who has the blind-spot instead!!!! [sloth looks about himself nodding at the appreciative applause and even the occasional gasp as his imaginary audience finally grasps the true genius of his well-laid ambuscade].

Ahem! Moving swiftly on. Or not in fact, because all joking aside that is the crux of my argument. The evidence of my eyes show me a good but limited player, you speculate that this is what Ramos sees too. Therefore I would respectfully suggest that it is you who has the blind-spot. That is not to discount the good performances Taino has put in previously.

I also think DZ has all the attributes bar a lack of something mental to be an excellent DM. I think this is precisely what a coach is for and is precisely why we employed Ramos. I also think this is why Commolli struggled with Jol after being so successful with Wenger.

 

[chrissivad]

I know people offer the argument that he's all effort and no product, but the number of times he saved our bacon with back post headers were too numerous to count. He put in some crunching tackles. Yes he got turned inside out a couple of times, but he recovered. Yes, he gave the ball away a couple of times (no more than any other player: including Berbatov) but the difference with TT? He'll go hell-for-leather to get it back. And more often than not he succeeds.

No other player does that, and for me why he should start next to JJ as the midfield destroyer like he did in the Arsenal Semi.

I do agree with you Stoof, but what about Steed?
This season at least i have been realy impressed with his work rate and the way he goes after the ball after it has been lost.

 

[yanno]

The evidence of my eyes show me a good but limited player, you speculate that this is what Ramos sees too. Therefore I would respectfully suggest that it is you who has the blind-spot. That is not to discount the good performances Taino has put in previously.

I also think DZ has all the attributes bar a lack of something mental to be an excellent DM. I think this is precisely what a coach is for and is precisely why we employed Ramos. I also think this is why Commolli struggled with Jol after being so successful with Wenger.

Yup. I'm perfectly willing to accept that it's me who has the blindspot here, and indeed did so in my earlier post. However, my blindspot continues to tell me that of all the players in our current squad, Tainio is the best choice alongside JJ on Sunday.

That said, given Juande's renowned tactical acumen in devising gameplans for specific opponents, he may totally surprize us all on Sunday. If Chelski play their usual 4-3-3, quite possibly with Joe Cole and Anelka playing wide, Drogba in the middle, and three very solid players in CM, then Ramos may rip up the playbook and set us up in a brand new formation. Unlikely, but not impossible with Juande.

As for Zokora, I believe that it is precisely his lack of "something mental" that will prevent him from being a top class C/DM.

Sevilla's Poulsen is a technically limited player. Tainio, Zokora and the Hud are all more talented than him in many different ways. But Poulsen, like Makelele, is a consummate team player - he fills in the gaps when more skilful teammates take those gambles that can win matches but leave the team exposed if they don't come off. In principle, it should be possible to teach a player these team skills. Martin Jol greatly improved Carrick's defensive positioning, and ability to be in the right place to nick the ball. We'll see whether Ramos can achieve similar improvements with any of our current C/DMs.

 

[Stoof]

I do agree with you Stoof, but what about Steed?
This season at least i have been realy impressed with his work rate and the way he goes after the ball after it has been lost.

Ah of course. But Steedo loses it less. :wink:

(Steedo being my favourite player these days alongside Keano) :up:

 

[nickspurs]

I also think DZ has all the attributes bar a lack of something mental to be an excellent DM. I think this is precisely what a coach is for and is precisely why we employed Ramos. I also think this is why Commolli struggled with Jol after being so successful with Wenger.

Bit off piste for this thread but I really agree with that point. One thing you have to give to Wenger is that he develops players very well indeed. Luckily Juande is in that mould so I think our set-up should work much better.

 

[Berbati]

Ah of course. But Steedo loses it less. :wink:

(Steedo being my favourite player these days alongside Keano) :up:

Neither is going to be Spurs Player of the Season :razz:

 

[sloth]

:wink:

I know this.

So if you're opinion does become right, we'll see.

Until then, you're playing the arrogance card. It's one of my favourites.

Pah! And Pah! again. My opinion will become nothing. I am already right.

I have simply yet to be shown as such.

Now that's arrogance for you. Sadly, for everyone else, it's the worst kind of arrogance because I shall be born out.

Of course if I'm wrong you shan't be seeing me in these parts for a few days.

 

[diegooners]

I hate the 37 fakes in 69 fakes.

You may wish to replace fakes with "goals" and "games" as you see fit.

doesn't mean he's really good. Iain Wright scored a lot of goals and he wasn't really good. kezman scored a lot of goals once but he's not really good. Bent scored a lot of goals but hes not any good.......

 

[diegooners]

I don't think Keane is a bad player I must have you know but he is soooooo overrated by some on here he wouldn't get anywhere near Arsenal's, Man u's or Chelsea's team. Good top six player but no more. AND he's a pussy 'ole :lol: