Racism in management

[dontcallme]

Sorry my mistake, I read the info wrong.

Thought as much. Ince only got sacked by Blackburn which was just before Christmas. The other jobs he left.

 

[dontcallme]

Do you think Ince constantly getting jobs after poor performance at the previous club is a sign that once you get into management then getting the next job is infinitely easier?

Many often question why certain managers keep finding work. I'm sure part of the issue with lack of black managers is the difficulty getting the 1st job. But then that appears to be the case for many managers.

 

[Mullers]

Thought as much. Ince only got sacked by Blackburn which was just before Christmas. The other jobs he left.

It was Barnes I thought got sacked in six days, but he was sacked 6 days after a 5-0 defeat to Millwall.

 

[Mullers]

Do you think Ince constantly getting jobs after poor performance at the previous club is a sign that once you get into management then getting the next job is infinitely easier?

Many often question why certain managers keep finding work. I'm sure part of the issue with lack of black managers is the difficulty getting the 1st job. But then that appears to be the case for many managers.

Didn't Ince do well at MK Dons?
I think once you get your foot in the door, then it can be easier to find work, but not if your performance was really poor.

 

[dontcallme]

Didn't Ince do well at MK Dons?
I think once you get your foot in the door, then it can be easier to find work, but not if your performance was really poor.

He did well the first time. The 2nd time he managed them for a season and they finished 13th. Have to ask an MK Dons fan if that was considered a good performance or not.

I'm sure there's been a few managers who have done badly on several jobs and continued to find employment.

 

[Mullers]

He did well the first time. The 2nd time he managed them for a season and they finished 13th. Have to ask an MK Dons fan if that was considered a good performance or not.

I'm sure there's been a few managers who have done badly on several jobs and continued to find employment.

There have been but in this day and age, with so much money at stake, it's very difficult.

 

[The Spurs Lad]

The more pressing matter is the way non ex players are refused jobs within management and coaching at the top level, I completely believe there are a far higher proportion of what I would class as intelligent football analysts, coaches and managers outwith the higher end of football then there are in it. Far too much about who you know and not what you know.

 

[nightgoat]

This time Sol can't understand why he isn't on the new FA commission.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24483665

Having said that, I'm not really sure what Danny Mills has done to make it onto that panel.

 

[Hoopspur]

This time Sol can't understand why he isn't on the new FA commission.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24483665

Having said that, I'm not really sure what Danny Mills has done to make it onto that panel.

I heard Brazil and Warnock having a right go at Sol this morning about this and basically saying he was a joke.

As for Danny Mills - it seems that he had prepared a large document of key points, suggestions and improvements and had submitted it to the FA and was then subsequently invited - not the other way around, which is being pro active I guess. It's easy to suggest things without actually acting upon them, but it looks like he has done so. Note - I'm no supporter of Danny Mills - don't really like him, but fair play tbh.

 

[nightgoat]

I heard Brazil and Warnock having a right go at Sol this morning about this and basically saying he was a joke.

As for Danny Mills - it seems that he had prepared a large document of key points, suggestions and improvements and had submitted it to the FA and was then subsequently invited - not the other way around, which is being pro active I guess. It's easy to suggest things without actually acting upon them, but it looks like he has done so. Note - I'm no supporter of Danny Mills - don't really like him, but fair play tbh.

If that's the case then fair play to him. All I really know is that he was an average defender and a crap pundit/summariser.

Of course if this panel had been formed earlier then presumably Clarke Carlisle would have sat on it. The way Campbell talks about it seems to reduce it to a need for a token black to make up the numbers.

 

[Fergus]

I'm sure most of us would despise Sol Campbell with equal venom were he Alexander Skarsgård's double. Nevertheless, the numbers simply don't support his argument.

According to the most recent census, 3.2% of Britain's population is black or mixed race. As 5% of all Premier League Managers (i.e. Chris Hughton) are black or mixed race, this group is actually over-represented at the top level. This becomes even more obvious when you count how many British managers there are in the premier league, i.e. 11. In other words, 9.09% of all top level British managers in the Premier League are black or mixed race, so this particular demographic is over-represented by a factor of almost three.

Of course a top bloke like Chris would no more dream of using his skin colour an an excuse than I would. FYI, my grandparents were Irish, English , Chinese and Tamil (which is why I'm such a good-looking bastard).

 

[Misfit]

I'm sure most of us would despise Sol Campbell with equal venom were he Alexander Skarsgård's double. Nevertheless, the numbers simply don't support his argument.

According to the most recent census, 3.2% of Britain's population is black or mixed race. As 5% of all Premier League Managers (i.e. Chris Hughton) are black or mixed race, this group is actually over-represented at the top level. This becomes even more obvious when you count how many British managers there are in the premier league, i.e. 11. In other words, 9.09% of all top level British managers in the Premier League are black or mixed race, so this particular demographic is over-represented by a factor of almost three.

Of course a top bloke like Chris would no more dream of using his skin colour an an excuse than I would. FYI, my grandparents were Irish, English , Chinese and Tamil (which is why I'm such a good-looking bastard).

Blinding holiday nosh as well eh? A right mix there.

 

[Mullers]

I want to say oh FFS I don't want to align myself with people who say 'this is PC gone mad' etc. I'm not that impressed with the panel but I wouldn't put Campbell on it, unless he could do what Mills did and come up with some good ideas.

 

[michaelden]

Soon Sol will claim it's racism that's the reason why Spurs won't hire him as manager....

that can't be right; stupidity isn't a race.

 

[Lufti]

So Campbell hasn't actually got any coaching qualifications but he wants a job in coaching?

Someone must have told him not to go on the training course or he'll come back in a coffin

 

[SpurSince57]

One factor that seems to have been forgotten is that even 20 years ago black footballers were relatively thin on the ground compared to today: the late great Laurie Cunningham, Chrissy Hughton, Viv Anderson and Cyrille Regis, all born in the mid-50s, stand at one end of the first generation of black players and Judas, born in 1974, at the other. When Cunningham, Hughton, Anderson and Regis were in their prime black players were something of a novelty, and I'd argue that they remained one even when the slightly younger, 60s-born Danny and Mitchell Thomas, Ince, Barnes, etc., were coming to the forefront a few years later. The pool of black players active from the 70s and 80s through to the early 90s—guys now in their 40s and 50s, the age you'd expect managers to be—is actually rather small, and off the top of my head I can't add many more names to those I've already mentioned: the Fashanus, Luther Blissett, Mark Bright, Ian Wright… There are bound to be a few more that others can come up with, but when you think four of those have been in management, that's surely not a bad percentage. The fact that only Hughton's made a success of it is neither here nor there.

It's really the next cohort, the current one, starting with players Ledley's age, that we should be looking at. If this thread re-emerges in 2030, it will be safe to say there is a problem.

 

[Mullers]

The more I think about it, the more I find it increasingly strange that Ramsey was not offered the caretaker role.
How would you feel if a role came up at work that you were qualified to do and you were passed over for someone who isn't qualified and doesn't have your experience? Not only that but someone who allegedly threatened to walk out if he didn't get a contract.

I know people will say this is part of my ongoing agenda against Levy but I think Ramsey is an example of what the ex black players are talking about, someone who has hit that glass ceiling.

 

[Lufti]

The more I think about it, the more I find it increasingly strange that Ramsey was not offered the caretaker role.
How would you feel if a role came up at work that you were qualified to do and you were passed over for someone who isn't qualified and doesn't have your experience? Not only that but someone who allegedly threatened to walk out if he didn't get a contract.

I know people will say this is part of my ongoing agenda against Levy but I think Ramsey is an example of what the ex black players are talking about, someone who has hit that glass ceiling.

It's stupid that he got overlooked but I highly, highly doubt it's due to racism. More likely is that Sherwood was touting himself for the job, while AVB still had it, hence how he got it in the first place

 

[Mullers]

It's stupid that he got overlooked but I highly, highly doubt it's due to racism. More likely is that Sherwood was touting himself for the job, while AVB still had it, hence how he got it in the first place

I wouldn't be surprised if Sherwood did that but I said from the beginning that it was obvious with the length of contract he was given that he was just a caretaker manager with a contract. I am not accusing Levy and the board of conscious racism more subconscious racism. There doesn't seem a good reason not to offer a caretaker role to a coach who is qualified and has experience.

 

[dontcallme]

The more I think about it, the more I find it increasingly strange that Ramsey was not offered the caretaker role.
How would you feel if a role came up at work that you were qualified to do and you were passed over for someone who isn't qualified and doesn't have your experience? Not only that but someone who allegedly threatened to walk out if he didn't get a contract.

I know people will say this is part of my ongoing agenda against Levy but I think Ramsey is an example of what the ex black players are talking about, someone who has hit that glass ceiling.

Hard to say. Over the past couple of years I've read a few reports saying the board are really impressed with Sherwood and see him as having a big future in the game.

Not surprised that he was the one to be given a chance.

Sherwood obviously wants to be a manager and wants to be at the top. Not sure if Ramsey is the same.

A few caretaker managers over the years have made it clear they will do the job temporarily but don't want to be a manager. It takes a certain kind of character to want it.