Pochettino says he needs time to rebuild transitional Tottenham

[Bulletspur]

If you have better players committed players that want to be at the club it is very obvious that team selections will be better. I also feel a lot of people underestimated Shef Utd we'd have lost the game with Eriksen Toby Jan along with Aurier and Rose in the team.

Off course we would have lost if it was Poch who managed these players against Sheffield Utd. I think you are overestimating Poch's ability to game manage. We have quality players, who even without adding to the squad, have enough talent to beat any team on their day, if been managed by someone who knows how to win.

 

[Ronwol196061]

For repeated top 4 places with sqaud without the financial muscle of some of the teams we we're finishing above, yes. Whether he can get beyond that, I dont have the answer as he has made some stange non decisions where I felt he could have changed some decisive games.
I do think he has banked enough to be at Spurs to start another season.

It's a fair point so the question is do we trust in Poch or dont we for the next 6 months say.I dont trust his judgement so does that mean we dump him?
It's a difficult one
Is Levy bold enough to find someone we would trust?
I wouldnt trust Mourinho....its difficult to be sure...The Spanish waiter?......Allegri?
I'd settle for a manager a lot of Tottenham fans dislike...Klopp ?

 

[Ronwol196061]

Cant see Brendan Rogers coming,can you?

 

[jolsnogross]

The problems we have at the moment are collective, which is why I suspect there'll be no change in manager anytime soon.

The players are simply not performing, and the way some opponents can move around the field unchallenged, in all areas of the pitch, beggars belief. You'd be hard pressed to convince me that Poch is to blame for that because there's no way he's instructing them to standoff players so passively in our defensive third. Our players are also quite poor in possession for long spells of most games, simply not taking enough calculated risks to get into shooting positions and valuing possession above all else. The hunger to make things happen and make their keeper work is simply not there in any consistent way and the players need to switch on more. Again, I'd be reluctant to blame Poch for players taking an extra 2 seconds on the ball when it isn't needed.

Poch has not managed the situation well. He should be more ruthless. He should have a much more identifiable Plan A in place right now having learned over the opening 10 games of the season. The two 1-1 draws with Everton and Sheffield United were an opportunity to ramp up for the season ahead. We haven't taken that chance. We've got West Ham and Bournemouth next and I'd like to think he's got a first eleven plan to improve and win those games and create an upward trajectory for a busy December.

Levy and the board have mucked up the post CL final period in a big way. They took too long to get our targets in and failed to get more players out. There was an obvious tension between their approach and Poch's wishes. That's contributed to a big malaise and I suspect they are aware of their role in it given Poch's dissatisfaction for far too long ("I'm coach, not manager", for example).

A new manager could bring a new dynamic, but that could be in a positive or negative direction. It's certainly not the silver bullet many on here claim it would be. And I reckon Levy knows he's played his part in this horrendous drop off and is willing to work through it with Poch over the next window and beyond.

 

[Finchyid]

Cant see Brendan Rogers coming,can you?

Why would he want to leave a team that might win something??

 

[Finchyid]

The problems we have at the moment are collective, which is why I suspect there'll be no change in manager anytime soon.

The players are simply not performing, and the way some opponents can move around the field unchallenged, in all areas of the pitch, beggars belief. You'd be hard pressed to convince me that Poch is to blame for that because there's no way he's instructing them to standoff players so passively in our defensive third. Our players are also quite poor in possession for long spells of most games, simply not taking enough calculated risks to get into shooting positions and valuing possession above all else. The hunger to make things happen and make their keeper work is simply not there in any consistent way and the players need to switch on more. Again, I'd be reluctant to blame Poch for players taking an extra 2 seconds on the ball when it isn't needed.

Poch has not managed the situation well. He should be more ruthless. He should have a much more identifiable Plan A in place right now having learned over the opening 10 games of the season. The two 1-1 draws with Everton and Sheffield United were an opportunity to ramp up for the season ahead. We haven't taken that chance. We've got West Ham and Bournemouth next and I'd like to think he's got a first eleven plan to improve and win those games and create an upward trajectory for a busy December.

Levy and the board have mucked up the post CL final period in a big way. They took too long to get our targets in and failed to get more players out. There was an obvious tension between their approach and Poch's wishes. That's contributed to a big malaise and I suspect they are aware of their role in it given Poch's dissatisfaction for far too long ("I'm coach, not manager", for example).

A new manager could bring a new dynamic, but that could be in a positive or negative direction. It's certainly not the silver bullet many on here claim it would be. And I reckon Levy knows he's played his part in this horrendous drop off and is willing to work through it with Poch over the next window and beyond.

I agree to most except the new manager part. Bringing allegri would work

 

[double0]

Off course we would have lost if it was Poch who managed these players against Sheffield Utd. I think you are overestimating Poch's ability to game manage. We have quality players, who even without adding to the squad, have enough talent to beat any team on their day, if been managed by someone who knows how to win.

your talking as if Pochettino is a serial loser . Were you not around the last 5.25 year. I get the Pochettino out call really I do but Pochettino is no mug he’s made players better than what they’re capable of. Allow him a few windows to build another team and shift the dead wood if it doesn’t work then fine we move on.

 

[Gassin's finest]

If he and Levy stay together you have to believe lessons have been learned.
However, I still dont know what the answer would be about the wantaway players. They have rejected contract discussions for a couple of years, no clubs have come for them and it makes it difficult pursue replacements while they are on the books.

Seems they're pretty much out of the team now, for better or worse. We're not far off the January window and there's potentially deals being lined up.

 

[Japhet]

The problems we have at the moment are collective, which is why I suspect there'll be no change in manager anytime soon.

The players are simply not performing, and the way some opponents can move around the field unchallenged, in all areas of the pitch, beggars belief. You'd be hard pressed to convince me that Poch is to blame for that because there's no way he's instructing them to standoff players so passively in our defensive third. Our players are also quite poor in possession for long spells of most games, simply not taking enough calculated risks to get into shooting positions and valuing possession above all else. The hunger to make things happen and make their keeper work is simply not there in any consistent way and the players need to switch on more. Again, I'd be reluctant to blame Poch for players taking an extra 2 seconds on the ball when it isn't needed.

Poch has not managed the situation well. He should be more ruthless. He should have a much more identifiable Plan A in place right now having learned over the opening 10 games of the season. The two 1-1 draws with Everton and Sheffield United were an opportunity to ramp up for the season ahead. We haven't taken that chance. We've got West Ham and Bournemouth next and I'd like to think he's got a first eleven plan to improve and win those games and create an upward trajectory for a busy December.

Levy and the board have mucked up the post CL final period in a big way. They took too long to get our targets in and failed to get more players out. There was an obvious tension between their approach and Poch's wishes. That's contributed to a big malaise and I suspect they are aware of their role in it given Poch's dissatisfaction for far too long ("I'm coach, not manager", for example).

A new manager could bring a new dynamic, but that could be in a positive or negative direction. It's certainly not the silver bullet many on here claim it would be. And I reckon Levy knows he's played his part in this horrendous drop off and is willing to work through it with Poch over the next window and beyond.

I agree that the blame for the current situation has to be shared areound but I'm not sure what else Levy could have done in the transfer window. We supposedly met prices sked for players and those prices were then hiked up. We got strung along by Aulas and Betis and we had Wanyama who wouldn't move to Belgium (and you probably wouldn't either under the circumstances). I'm not defending Levy particularly because I'm sure he's screwed up plenty - but not this time around.

Poch has to take the majority of the blame though IMO. Yes, he's been unlucky with injuries, but he's persisted with playing players way out of form for far too long and shown too much loyalty to players who obviously don't want to be here. Couple that with the lack of signing a DM or a RB and the picture paints itself. Those 2 positions are obviously a problem but he's refused to even try KWP or Oliver Skipp - even off the bench. There is allegedly unrest behind the scenes with training methods, tactics and lineups as well but I don't know that he's properly addressed any of that either.

 

[jolsnogross]

I agree that the blame for the current situation has to be shared areound but I'm not sure what else Levy could have done in the transfer window. We supposedly met prices sked for players and those prices were then hiked up. We got strung along by Aulas and Betis and we had Wanyama who wouldn't move to Belgium (and you probably wouldn't either under the circumstances). I'm not defending Levy particularly because I'm sure he's screwed up plenty - but not this time around.

Poch has to take the majority of the blame though IMO. Yes, he's been unlucky with injuries, but he's persisted with playing players way out of form for far too long and shown too much loyalty to players who obviously don't want to be here. Couple that with the lack of signing a DM or a RB and the picture paints itself. Those 2 positions are obviously a problem but he's refused to even try KWP or Oliver Skipp - even off the bench. There is allegedly unrest behind the scenes with training methods, tactics and lineups as well but I don't know that he's properly addressed any of that either.

It seems like you undermine your first paragraph with the second one. If Poch is sticking with players who dont want to be here, and is operating without a couple of key positions lacking recruitment, then Levy shares in that squad mismanagement.

It's a mess, frankly. But I don't think it's all or mostly Poch. There are plenty of culprits and only some new players and still performing ones like Son escape blame.

 

[Japhet]

It seems like you undermine your first paragraph with the second one. If Poch is sticking with players who dont want to be here, and is operating without a couple of key positions lacking recruitment, then Levy shares in that squad mismanagement.

It's a mess, frankly. But I don't think it's all or mostly Poch. There are plenty of culprits and only some new players and still performing ones like Son escape blame.

I think the whole 'players don't want to be here' thing only became evident after the start of the season. The form of Eriksen, Alderweireld , Vertonghen and Rose collectively dropped off the proverbial cliff. Maybe Poch should have forseen that but it's a bit of a stretch. To add to the problems, I think we were probably hoping Dier would be OK but there's no sign of that, and Harry Kane looks like he's running in treacle. None of this would have been 100% obvious. The one thing that was 100% obvious though was that we needed a RB.

 

[Ronwol196061]

The problems we have at the moment are collective, which is why I suspect there'll be no change in manager anytime soon.

The players are simply not performing, and the way some opponents can move around the field unchallenged, in all areas of the pitch, beggars belief. You'd be hard pressed to convince me that Poch is to blame for that because there's no way he's instructing them to standoff players so passively in our defensive third. Our players are also quite poor in possession for long spells of most games, simply not taking enough calculated risks to get into shooting positions and valuing possession above all else. The hunger to make things happen and make their keeper work is simply not there in any consistent way and the players need to switch on more. Again, I'd be reluctant to blame Poch for players taking an extra 2 seconds on the ball when it isn't needed.

Poch has not managed the situation well. He should be more ruthless. He should have a much more identifiable Plan A in place right now having learned over the opening 10 games of the season. The two 1-1 draws with Everton and Sheffield United were an opportunity to ramp up for the season ahead. We haven't taken that chance. We've got West Ham and Bournemouth next and I'd like to think he's got a first eleven plan to improve and win those games and create an upward trajectory for a busy December.

Levy and the board have mucked up the post CL final period in a big way. They took too long to get our targets in and failed to get more players out. There was an obvious tension between their approach and Poch's wishes. That's contributed to a big malaise and I suspect they are aware of their role in it given Poch's dissatisfaction for far too long ("I'm coach, not manager", for example).

A new manager could bring a new dynamic, but that could be in a positive or negative direction. It's certainly not the silver bullet many on here claim it would be. And I reckon Levy knows he's played his part in this horrendous drop off and is willing to work through it with Poch over the next window and beyond.

I think Pochs problem and the players problems is that Poch is a fanatical micro manager. You only have to look at how tentatively the players pass the ball around in defence to know that these players are listening to the little Poch in their heads. There is too much tension in the players. I really think that Pochs micro managing is hurting the players instincts and their freedom. Maybe against a team like Red Star,the players get more time but in general I think they all seem tightened up when they should be more relaxed.
Just look at Pochs demeaner.
Some players can brush that off but others cant. Sanchez for instance seemed to come to Tottenham relaxed and cool and after the first few weeks suffered tension in his play. I think its Pochs micro managing.
Managers should give their players discipline and balance that with trust.If the manager squeezes too much the players will choke (If he gives them too much freedom (Schnapps) its also not good.
Balance.

 

[Ronwol196061]

Trippier made some obtuse comment when he left indicated something wasn't right at Tottenham,it would be good to know what he meant

 

[Dougal]

Trippier made some obtuse comment when he left indicated something wasn't right at Tottenham,it would be good to know what he meant

You’re living it.

 

[Ronwol196061]

You’re living it.

We know the symptom but what about the cause

 

[tcyrus]

we've somehow, turned into West Ham

 

[PeeLee]

Bet everyone is sick of hearing this by now

On the contrary. He has a good attitude and uses it to think around a problem and to discuss it with his staff. As for misery guts, well, they're ten a penny and worth as much in a situation like this. Pochettino is a fighter, upbeat and hard to beat as a manager and coach.

 

[USAYID]

He needs to find the balls to drop Kane and Dele. Ok, you can argue Dele needs some time to develop game fitness, but Kane was utter pants today, barely jogging around and not really getting involved. We desperately need a second striker to play with Son and Lucus when Kane needs a rest or is out of form.

He needs to find the balls to drop Kane and Dele. Ok, you can argue Dele needs some time to develop game fitness, but Kane was utter pants today, barely jogging around and not really getting involved. We desperately need a second striker to play with Son and Lucus when Kane needs a rest or is out of form.

So PeeLee, Finchyid, UbeAstard, Nebby, Jolmaster, hutchiniho, bloodzeed, Gassin's finest and tiger666,

I seriously have to question if you've watched any of our premier league games over the last few weeks. If you think Kane and Dele deserve their spot in the team right now, then either you have not watched the games or have no clue about what you're watching.

Please tell me what Kane has contributed over the last 2 games other than that goal against Everton. He no longer takes shots from outside the penalty area, is not an outlet for a long pass, does not hold up the ball particularly well any more, and jogs around for long periods of the game without doing anything.

Dele clearly should not be an automatic starter, and this last game clearly shows that. Please tell me what he contributed in that game other than flicks and tricks that did not pan out. I acknowledge that he needs more game time, but he needs 20-30 minutes max until he builds his fitness and confidence, not 70+ minutes of doing nothing.

If you think I'm wrong, go ahead and give me examples, don't just "rate" the post without contributing anything useful, but for the record I don't expect you to be able to provide anything useful though on this topic.

 

[wrd]

So PeeLee, Finchyid, UbeAstard, Nebby, Jolmaster, hutchiniho, bloodzeed, Gassin's finest and tiger666,

I seriously have to question if you've watched any of our premier league games over the last few weeks. If you think Kane and Dele deserve their spot in the team right now, then either you have not watched the games or have no clue about what you're watching.

Please tell me what Kane has contributed over the last 2 games other than that goal against Everton. He no longer takes shots from outside the penalty area, is not an outlet for a long pass, does not hold up the ball particularly well any more, and jogs around for long periods of the game without doing anything.

Dele clearly should not be an automatic starter, and this last game clearly shows that. Please tell me what he contributed in that game other than flicks and tricks that did not pan out. I acknowledge that he needs more game time, but he needs 20-30 minutes max until he builds his fitness and confidence, not 70+ minutes of doing nothing.

If you think I'm wrong, go ahead and give me examples, don't just "rate" the post without contributing anything useful, but for the record I don't expect you to be able to provide anything useful though on this topic.

He didn't play vs Everton .

 

[Gassin's finest]

The trouble is Poch you had a team and it peaked in the C/L final it no longer wants to fight and play your way any more I know you will dismiss any points of view from what you call "non footballers" as we are just onlookers but we can only talk about what we see on the pitch........ take today.... Sheffield United looked like the team that would finish 3rd or 4th in the league...... the way we are going we will be fighting relegation for most of the season....... where the hell is your pressing game that you were being lorded for 4 years ago..... you must know in your heart that it is over...... Levey will never sack you as it will break his heart to pay your contract up....... so Poch its over to you.