Match Threads Leicester vs Spurs - Match Thread

Match Prediction

  • Spurs win

    Votes: 36 33.3%
  • Leicester win

    Votes: 29 26.9%
  • Score Draw

    Votes: 42 38.9%
  • Goalless Draw

    Votes: 1 0.9%

  • Total voters
    108
  • Poll closed .

olliec

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Jun 20, 2012
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1,228
If we have peaked and we’re now on the decline. as long as we drag Arsenal down with us to mediocrity than I’ll be happy. Yes i’m bitter!
 

werty

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Aug 8, 2005
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21,547
Toby’s defending hasn’t been great for a while now. My opinion is his cultured passing and playing out from the back masks his defending
Well I couldn't disagree more. He's very good positionally and his defending one on one in the box is great. If he had a capable RB beside him instead of Sanchez or Aurier he'd look even better.
 

worcestersauce

"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
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This is why VAR was brought in because when I saw the ball played to Son from my position he was off. I thought we got away with it until the VAR check. I have no idea about lines being thicker or why, as I said previously VAR in its infancy and these debates will be a thing of the past with more time. It's benefited us previously and will cost us the future as well.
But var gave him millimetres off so there is no way you or I could see he was offside, what we saw was him moving forward and the defender not, he got away quicker and in that split second you saw him as offside, our eyes deceive us sometimes. Whether he was offside or not we simply couldn't have seen. If var carries on we will have to come to terms with just accepting var decisions irrespective of what we see or know about football that's the only way these debates will be a thing of the past.
 

dondo

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Jan 4, 2006
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6,251
Well I couldn't disagree more. He's very good positionally and his defending one on one in the box is great. If he had a capable RB beside him instead of Sanchez or Aurier he'd look even better.

When I say his defending hasn’t been great, I should have said not a good as before. His personal stats back this up and so does our overall goals per game we have conceded in the last 18 months. This as you said is not all down to Toby as our whole defence is not what it was but I’ve seen quite a few goal where he could have done better
 

double0

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Aug 29, 2006
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12,076
I’m starting to think we simply aren’t as good as many think we are.

It’s been too long for it be a patch of form. 2019, by and large has been poor. In fact, it’s not been good enough. Even for a top 6 side.

Very rarely do teams recover from such a poor run either unfortunately. I envisage major changes in the next 12 months. Thing is it feels like the team we all loved over the past few years is over anyway, so it’s not all that hard to take.
To be successful you must be able to change with the times. The bulk of this squad missed the boat the season Leciester and Chelsea won the league and we missed out on the CL final. We haven't really recycled players well enough personally I'm at the point now where I'd just cut out Eriksen (to many question around him) Toby Vertonghen Wanyama Rose . Its not knee jerk, its not over reaction. When rot starts to fester it must be cut off.
 

JayB

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But var gave him millimetres off so there is no way you or I could see he was offside, what we saw was him moving forward and the defender not, he got away quicker and in that split second you saw him as offside, our eyes deceive us sometimes. Whether he was offside or not we simply couldn't have seen. If var carries on we will have to come to terms with just accepting var decisions irrespective of what we see or know about football that's the only way these debates will be a thing of the past.
I don't think we just need to come to terms with it just yet, VAR is clearly still a work in progress and the current offside decision-making process, which doesn't take margin of error into account at all, is clearly broken and needs to be fixed. Supporters ought to be making their opinions known to try and agitate for the change.
 

rossdapep

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Aug 25, 2011
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Fantastic post. The fundamental problem with the VAR offside checks is that they don't account for any margin of error at all.

The still-frame image that was used for the check is pixelated and ill-suited to determining positioning down to the millimeter, not to mention the fact that it was itself selected arbitrarily. The cameras used for tennis replays record at 120 frames per second (record rate and broadcast rate are two different things), so let's say the same is true for football. If we assume that the foot coming into contact with the ball takes place over the course of one tenth of one second then there were a dozen different frames that could have reasonably been selected for analysis. Any one of the other 11 frames very well could have made the difference.

NBC also reported that the locations from which the vertical lines are drawn are determined by a human operator, and there's no way that they can consistently get the determination perfectly right, down to the millimeter. I'd argue that the middle of Evans's thigh is protruding out further than his knee, which is where the vertical line was drawn. Again that can be a difference of millimeters. It's subject to human error and will never be perfect.

The offside law has always accounted for these situations by saying that when players are level the attacker is onside, yet the PL seems to be tacitly rejecting that "level" is even possible. Proceeding as though there's absolute certainty when there will always, always be some reasonable margin of error is completely absurd.
There should be a time limit on these offside decisions because you can usually determine them very quickly but these ones where they have to zoom in, take frames from ridiculous points are often open to interpretation.

I wonder if they should just add a line where the defenders foot is and ask "Is the attacker clearly 5cm (or so) ahead of the line?" - they could add a second line in to show this. If not, forget it, don't waste any time trying to determine if he's 1mm ahead at what could be the wrong point.
 

rossdapep

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Aug 25, 2011
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To be successful you must be able to change with the times. The bulk of this squad missed the boat the season Leciester and Chelsea won the league and we missed out on the CL final. We haven't really recycled players well enough personally I'm at the point now where I'd just cut out Eriksen (to many question around him) Toby Vertonghen Wanyama Rose . Its not knee jerk, its not over reaction. When rot starts to fester it must be cut off.
I wanted this in the summer but then we didn't get Dybala and now Lo Celso is injured.
 

wrd

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Aug 22, 2014
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4,662
I don't think we just need to come to terms with it just yet, VAR is clearly still a work in progress and the current offside decision-making process, which doesn't take margin of error into account at all, is clearly broken and needs to be fixed. Supporters ought to be making their opinions known to try and agitate for the change.
I will never accept that this is the way games will be governed going forward, we need to fucking hold the ****s to account on how poor it is, we need them to be forced to review the way theyre going about things, it's our game not theirs and it fucks me off to no end people suggesting we should just accept like that fucking dick head on bbc. We have a responsibility to push back or else theyll fucking do whatever they please and the game will become more sanitised than a surgery room.
 

stormfly

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Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
2,113
I stop watching the game on 50 odd minutes to play rugby then checked the scores just now. WTF actually happened we look alright today when I left? Serious question btw, what happened in the last 40 to throw that away?
 

JayB

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Aug 24, 2011
Messages
3,012
There should be a time limit on these offside decisions because you can usually determine them very quickly but these ones where they have to zoom in, take frames from ridiculous points are often open to interpretation.

I wonder if they should just add a line where the defenders foot is and ask "Is the attacker clearly 5cm (or so) ahead of the line?" - they could add a second line in to show this. If not, forget it, don't waste any time trying to determine if he's 1mm ahead at what could be the wrong point.
Agreed, there's got to be some way to account for the margin of error in these situations. Pretending as though the current setup is sufficient to achieve 100% accuracy down to the millimeter, when we all know that the frame is chosen arbitrarily among many alternatives and the vertical lines drawn and adjusted in real time by human operators, is absurd. There's good reason that the law stipulates that when the players are level you give the attacker the benefit of the doubt, there will always be these situations that arise and there's absolutely no way whatsoever that the current approach is precise enough to parse out the differences by the millimeter.
 

DiamondLites

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Jul 29, 2011
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Sometimes players may lose faith in a manager's methods if they never win anything? Perhaps that's what's happened?

Everyone is kind of happy, but not fully trusting in the method. Hence why the philosophy has started to drift away.

But also the manager has become what seems like paranoid. And also we don't seem to buy players for certain systems anymore but have gone back to buying players in a director of football way of signing players that manager's have to adapt to. There is no way that we have a balanced midfield.

Guardiola and Klopp have a system and the players signed fit it. It seems like we've lost total trust in Poch.
Part of the problem is Poch doesn’t seem to have a system anymore - the constant changing of formation, personnel and game plan has left us without any real identity on the pitch. The peak Poch years we rarely strayed from a set formation, and we pretty much set out to play the same way with the same basic principles. Ferocious high pressing, defensive solidity and swift incisive attacking were our trademarks but now you’d struggle to say what sort of team we are or know what to expect broom one game to the next
 

poc

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Aug 6, 2004
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2,123
I stop watching the game on 50 odd minutes to play rugby then checked the scores just now. WTF actually happened we look alright today when I left? Serious question btw, what happened in the last 40 to throw that away?
Var happened, it lifted the Leicester players and the crowd and we were a bit deflated which was enough to change the course of the game. Imo
 

double0

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Aug 29, 2006
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12,076
Part of the problem is Poch doesn’t seem to have a system anymore - the constant changing of formation, personnel and game plan has left us without any real identity on the pitch. The peak Poch years we rarely strayed from a set formation, and we pretty much set out to play the same way with the same basic principles. Ferocious high pressing, defensive solidity and swift incisive attacking were our trademarks but now you’d struggle to say what sort of team we are or know what to expect broom one game to the next
Poch is i think an evolving type of manager. I believe he is playing a style that he can with the players at his disposal. We don't have a young team anymore ( certain players want out) as we did when he first came in, players have got older and we've sustained a lot of injuries also we faded pretty badly playing the high press game. I still feel we pick games where the press is aggressive, against Leicester we played pretty aggressive up to a point however to many players just didn't pull their weight.
 

Vinny_Sammways_left_peg

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Sep 1, 2014
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Part of the problem is Poch doesn’t seem to have a system anymore - the constant changing of formation, personnel and game plan has left us without any real identity on the pitch. The peak Poch years we rarely strayed from a set formation, and we pretty much set out to play the same way with the same basic principles. Ferocious high pressing, defensive solidity and swift incisive attacking were our trademarks but now you’d struggle to say what sort of team we are or know what to expect broom one game to the next
Think this is such a large part of the decline we've seen. This is such a good post in my opinion.
 

tooey

60% banana
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Apr 22, 2005
Messages
4,171
What happened with VAR? Can’t be arsed to google it.
Gave Son offside in a flip of a coin decision. We were unlucky and instead of taking it on the chin and continuing to play the football we had done up to that point we decided to shit the bed.
 

daveduvet

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Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
711
I honestly thought we were looking ok with 50mins gone. Can’t believe we lost.
‘Looking ok’ was about right. Leicester deserved the win. They played with the kind of passion we did a year ago; we were really lacking interest in the game. I didn’t feel the confidence in the team I’ve previously felt. Real shame - something ain’t right
 
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