Jose Mourinho

[adamsky]

Have noticed an increased confidence in José in recent interviews. He seems more like his old self, the Mourinho from Chelsea, Inter, and Madrid. I think he is excited by our team and has his mojo back.

 

[Marty]

Redknapp was playing Kane in the first team well before Sherwood.

He regularly gave academy players chances, more so than others and exponentially more than MP, but never gets the credit as being that type of manager.

Kane played six matches under Harry and all were in the Europa League. He didn't start in the PL before Sherwood.

 

[spids]

For some reason I enjoyed the Redknapp era more. I know we didn't win every game, but I found his management more 'agreeable'. Maybe it's my bad memory, as I didn't use or read forums at all until well after AVB had gone. I feel that what Harry did for us (including being the catalyst for Kane and so many others) is always completely ignored (or wholly under-appreciated) in the context of what Poch did for us.

The Redknapp era was good as we got into the CL and had multiple world class players playing attractive, 'Tottenham' football. And we finally made that step from 6th/5th to 4th. But we still lost big games, still had a soft belly, and still conceded soft goals. Under Poch for 18 months we were the best team in the country. Silk and steel. in 2016/17 we only conceded 28 goals (the lowest in the PL) and scored 86 goals (the highest in the PL). We were robbed against Juve after totally outplaying them for the majority of both legs in the CL and if we had not been recklessly chasing a 2nd goal in the 2nd leg when they needed to score twice could have won the CL that year. That season we were so good, ridiculous that Chelsea beat us to the title, very luckily for them they had no Europe and no injuries.

 

[sausage]

Kane played six matches under Harry and all were in the Europa League. He didn't start in the PL before Sherwood.

What's the implication? Kane was 18 when Harry was giving him chances in the first team. It was a further 2 seasons after Redknapp went before he got another chance. It says a lot that it would have been at a time when we would have had 4 or 5 first team strikers, not just 'no other option'.

Based on the progression and career path of our academy lads since, it was an important catalyst for someone to have given him the chance. Edwards, Sterling, Griffiths and many others didn't get that tbh, and it's one thing that's grated on people over the years since.

 

[Marty]

What's the implication? Kane was 18 when Harry was giving him chances in the first team. It was a further 2 seasons after Redknapp went before he got another chance. It says a lot that it would have been at a time when we would have had 4 or 5 first team strikers, not just 'no other option'.

Based on the progression and career path of our academy lads since, it was an important catalyst for someone to have given him the chance. Edwards, Sterling, Griffiths and many others didn't get that tbh, and it's one thing that's grated on people over the years since.

Those six games were almost certainly a huge help in Kane's development, I won't deny that and I hope it can be a catalyst for some of our younger players this season. But the sides we put out in that Europa League campaign were a far cry from a first team.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

How the fuck did this thread end up here in whogivesafuckville?

As far as I can make out, one comment from a 'bearded twat' on Twitter was brought over and before you know it, we have the crowd fight scene at the end of Enter the Dragon

 

[sausage]

The Redknapp era was good as we got into the CL and had multiple world class players playing attractive, 'Tottenham' football. And we finally made that step from 6th/5th to 4th. But we still lost big games, still had a soft belly, and still conceded soft goals. Under Poch for 18 months we were the best team in the country. Silk and steel. in 2016/17 we only conceded 28 goals (the lowest in the PL) and scored 86 goals (the highest in the PL). We were robbed against Juve after totally outplaying them for the majority of both legs in the CL and if we had not been recklessly chasing a 2nd goal in the 2nd leg when they needed to score twice could have won the CL that year. That season we were so good, ridiculous that Chelsea beat us to the title, very luckily for them they had no Europe and no injuries.

One again, I feel that the difference between "enjoyable" and "successful" football is a problem here.
We could win the treble under Jose and I could still have 'enjoyed' Redknapp football more. I think it's due to some of the players we had - Bale, Lennon, VDV, Crouch, King, BAE, Modric - it may have not been as successful or 'competent' an era as some of the Poch ones, but we had so many exciting players and our football may have been flawed/naive, but it was universally great to watch.

 

[sausage]

Those six games were almost certainly a huge help in Kane's development, I won't deny that and I hope it can be a catalyst for some of our younger players this season. But the sides we put out in that Europa League campaign were a far cry from a first team.

I feel like you're really stretching to try and redefine the concept of what the first team is here, and I still don't know why? He was playing in a squad indiscernible to the equivalent one we put out last night. It's a weird thing because it drags the conversation well off-topic over splitting hairs.

 

[Marty]

One again, I feel that the difference between "enjoyable" and "successful" football is a problem here.
We could win the treble under Jose and I could still have 'enjoyed' Redknapp football more. I think it's due to some of the players we had - Bale, Lennon, VDV, Crouch, King, BAE, Modric - it may have not been as successful or 'competent' an era as some of the Poch ones, but we had so many exciting players and our football may have been flawed/naive, but it was universally great to watch.

I agree, for me the Redknapp era is the embodiment of the fabled "Tottenham way". Fantastic to watch, prone to errors, didn't achieve everything it could have done.

But I will always enjoy winning more than playing well. If we can do both, all the better, but winning comes first and we won a lot more games under Poch and so far Mourinho's win percentage is very similar to Harry's.

 

[@Bobby__Lucky]

Just watched the highlights from last night's game. The play was delicious. Anyone saying that Jose doesn't know how to set up plays in an attacking sense is talking out their arse. The way we counter purposefully and the positions, it's like triangles and diamonds with the bodies in the right shape to anticipate one touch zig zag back and forward quick passes. It was literally eqsuisite. Also worthy of note is sanchez pass to stevie for his one on one, absolutely Jose coaching ??

 

[spids]

One again, I feel that the difference between "enjoyable" and "successful" football is a problem here.
We could win the treble under Jose and I could still have 'enjoyed' Redknapp football more. I think it's due to some of the players we had - Bale, Lennon, VDV, Crouch, King, BAE, Modric - it may have not been as successful or 'competent' an era as some of the Poch ones, but we had so many exciting players and our football may have been flawed/naive, but it was universally great to watch.

I think this is all about opinions. They differ, and happy to say you are not wrong. Just as I am not. And you have to appreciate that we were just as "successful" under Redknapp as we were under Poch - we played CL football and won the square root of **** all, losing cup finals and semi-finals along the way.

But I "enjoyed" Poch's 2016/17 football slightly more as I felt that whilst playing just as attractive football (and we did in that 18 month period despite it becoming increasingly predictable and slow from 2017 onwards), we also had a steel to our play that we never had under Redknapp. Don't get me wrong - I'd rather win 5-3 than 2-0, but under Poch we were battering teams by 3 or 4 AND keeping clean sheets. And importantly, we actually had two proper full-on tilts at the title, and that aded extra enjoyment - dreaming of lifting the PL title. And that had not happened since the 80's. So I enjoyed Poch's football more as I felt it was just as attacking and attractive stylistically as Redknapp's, but also had the steel to go with the silk AND had me dreaming of titles.

 

[stormfly]

Poch was class and had us playing at a level I didn’t think was possible. I honestly feel he burnt himself out though. He was so emotionally involved and by the end he didn’t look like he was enjoying himself and went very strange in press conferences. Saying he may leave just before the biggest game we’ve had in decades is a prime example. The fact he’s still unemployed now seems to me that he knew he was burnt out and needed a break.

 

[sausage]

I think this is all about opinions. They differ, and happy to say you are not wrong. Just as I am not. And you have to appreciate that we were just as "successful" under Redknapp as we were under Poch - we played CL football and won the square root of **** all, losing cup finals and semi-finals along the way.

But I "enjoyed" Poch's 2016/17 football slightly more as I felt that whilst playing just as attractive football (and we did in that 18 month period despite it becoming increasingly predictable and slow from 2017 onwards), we also had a steel to our play that we never had under Redknapp. Don't get me wrong - I'd rather win 5-3 than 2-0, but under Poch we were battering teams by 3 or 4 AND keeping clean sheets. And importantly, we actually had two proper full-on tilts at the title, and that aded extra enjoyment - dreaming of lifting the PL title. And that had not happened since the 80's. So I enjoyed Poch's football more as I felt it was just as attacking and attractive stylistically as Redknapp's, but also had the steel to go with the silk AND had me dreaming of titles.

It's unfortunate though, as we benefitted from some complete meltdowns from other teams in our better seasons. The HR years still had Fergie and a strong Wenger, plus strong sides from the other big clubs, so I would have loved to see that side in one of those seasons where the usual bunch had terrible seasons (like the Leicester season) - especially HR's final season where the open England job derailed our efforts.

The problem with 'enjoying' a season is also expectations though - it's like when Man Utd finish 3rd, the fans are aghast - if Sheffield Utd finished 3rd, it'd be glorious. You could have the same football and same results, just different expectations. That Crouch header, for example, was such a euphoric moment for us, as we finally made it to the CL - something unthinkable in the past - but now we're just pissed off if we don't get CL you know? Same with Jose - if he won the league for us playing good football, that could well be our most enjoyable season ever, but if you copy and paste that season onto the next, there's a chance you'd enjoy it less because the "excitement" of the unexpected/underdog is lost. Same if Liverpool win this season, it'll be a fraction of the joy they had a few months ago.

 

[Tucker]

Wonder where he got the nickname Gary for Gareth Southgate from? ??

 

[aussiespursguy]

Ok. I have kept the powder dry as I was in the "meh" bracket. Didn't really want him but would support him. See where things went.

I personally didn't think it started well as far as the quality of the game.

That was then. This is now. I like where things are going. We have had our best window ever in my opinion. I'm really excited as to where this could lead to.

Jose has my full support from here on. I'm a converted believer.

PS: I have always been a closet BSoDL!

 

[freeeki]

How the fuck did this thread end up here in whogivesafuckville?

As far as I can make out, one comment from a 'bearded twat' on Twitter was brought over and before you know it, we have the crowd fight scene at the end of Enter the Dragon

It is a shit beard though, you can't deny that

 

[Yiddo100]

Feels like the season really starts for us after the international break, even though the previous games have been very important. bale and son back, new players bedded in, group stages of the Europa.

I reckon if you offered Jose the position we are in now, a month ago he would’ve taken it. Okay we haven’t got off to a flier in the League but with all the new players I’m very confident

 

[freeeki]

I don't know where this debate about who's the better manager out of Pochettino and Redknapp has come from; both managers left us in a better state than they found us IMO, and that's all you can ask really. You can say the same for Martin Jol.

Yes we made huge progress under Pochettino, but you also can't deny that his last 18 months undid much of the good work of his first 3 years. Our league finishes went from 2nd > 3rd > 4th until finally he left us in 14th place with no hope of top 4. However, we were still in a better place on his last day in the job than on his first.

We were nearly-men under Poch. If Jose leaves us in a better state than he found us, then we'll surely have trophies to show for it. And no amount of bearded weirdness will make anyone say "yeah but I still preferred it under Poch" when Hugo's waving the UCL trophy around.

 

[wrd]

@Dougal has spoken

This has been deleted, who was it

 

[wrd]

I don't know where this debate about who's the better manager out of Pochettino and Redknapp has come from; both managers left us in a better state than they found us IMO, and that's all you can ask really. You can say the same for Martin Jol.

Yes we made huge progress under Pochettino, but you also can't deny that his last 18 months undid much of the good work of his first 3 years. Our league finishes went from 2nd > 3rd > 4th until finally he left us in 14th place with no hope of top 4. However, we were still in a better place on his last day in the job than on his first.

We were nearly-men under Poch. If Jose leaves us in a better state than he found us, then we'll surely have trophies to show for it. And no amount of bearded weirdness will make anyone say "yeah but I still preferred it under Poch" when Hugo's waving the UCL trophy around.

I simply just can't understand how this has turned into a partisan situation for some people. I absolutely loved the Poch years and I'll always be grateful for him for the fact he guided us through one of the most difficult periods in the clubs history with no transfers and having to deal with the transition from the Lane to Wembley, suffer the stadium being delayed and eventually the move there all the while giving us nights I will simply never forget. I loved what he did for the club and the fact is, we don't get Jose if it wasn't for poch.

Now I'm absolutely loving what I'm seeing under Jose, I'm enjoying seeing our game take shape and I'm enjoying the football we have had on offer in our recent games but more to the point I'm loving the change I'm seeing in the team. There's a real mentality shift and I truly believe he is here to stay and we're going to win one of the big ones with him. Look at the squad we have amassed because of him. I don't need to pick sides, there's absolutely 0 need to.