Jose Mourinho

[yojambo]

Tbf to Mourinho, after watching the documentary were he goes through all the goals the team has been conceding, what else can you do? The players just dont seem to get it. Don't know what the answer is.

 

[freeeki]

Until Mourinho fixes our midfield we'll go nowhere. So far he has not got the balance right at all. We need a 3 man midfield to try and get hold of the ball a bit at least.

You would hope Mourinho sees that, hopefully after Sunday's game, the board now see it too.

Once Lo Celso comes back we look a lot stronger in midfield. If - and it's a big if - Ndombele comes good, we look stronger still. But that's a best case scenario, and it's not realistic for PEH, GLC and TN to play every game of the season.

As I've said before, I would love for us to go all in to try and sign David Brooks. Hell, go back to Bournemouth for both Brooks and King, give them CCV and Rose if we have to, whatever needs to be done to seal the deal. Now that we've (presumably) got a reasonable relationship with Norwich, I'd even take a chance on signing Cantwell too. We've clearly missed the boat on Grealish a long time ago, just like we did on Maddison and Tielemans, but we haven't yet on Cantwell and Brooks.

 

[Metalhead]

You would hope Mourinho sees that, hopefully after Sunday's game, the board now see it too.

Once Lo Celso comes back we look a lot stronger in midfield. If - and it's a big if - Ndombele comes good, we look stronger still. But that's a best case scenario, and it's not realistic for PEH, GLC and TN to play every game of the season.

As I've said before, I would love for us to go all in to try and sign David Brooks. Hell, go back to Bournemouth for both Brooks and King, give them CCV and Rose if we have to, whatever needs to be done to seal the deal. Now that we've (presumably) got a reasonable relationship with Norwich, I'd even take a chance on signing Cantwell too. We've clearly missed the boat on Grealish a long time ago, just like we did on Maddison and Tielemans, but we haven't yet on Cantwell and Brooks.

It doesn't sound like a bad idea but nothing suggests that we would push the boat out to do that.

 

[felmani26]

Agreed, but there's more to it.

People are also unhappy about the lack of excitement and creativity and cohesion amongst the players.

We wouldn't be happy to lose in style either, but there'd maybe be a bit more cause for optimism.

Granted although this malaise set well into the previous regime so suggests it's fundamentally with the players and not the management.

You can see Jose telling them ad nauseam the same recurring issues and the penny never seems to drop.

 

[freeeki]

It doesn't sound like a bad idea but nothing suggests that we would push the boat out to do that.

I don't think we have a choice.

The time for pushing the boat out was 2 years ago. If we do it now, we'll be playing catch-up but from a stronger position.

If we don't, we're done. It's over. I firmly believe the vast majority of our current squad will never win anything at Tottenham, and without a radical overhaul, none of them will.

 

[Maxtremist]

There are quite a few buts in that table though.
We had already played Liverpool, Man City, Arsenal and Leicester away from home (4 of the 6 hardest games of season in the first 12 of the season, meaning relative fixture list was significantly easier than peers)

He got a new manager bounce, and after that had us in our worst run of form, 1 draw and 5 defeats in 6 games, going out of 2 cup competitions we have had in a very long time, which was only saved by a pandemic.
XG actually had us finishing 12th last year on a measly 44 points, basically saying we gained a hell of lot of undeserved points (think Man City at home for prime example), which is not sustainable in long term (26 games is such a small sample size).
He does actually have the worst Win%, worst PPG of our last 6 managers (since Ramos), and the style of football is worse than even AVB's.

I mean if you're gonna include the 'buts' then you also have to include that he came in when Lloris was injured and then had to deal with Kane, Son, Davies, Sissoko all being injured for extended periods of time as well. You can't just cherry pick the bad ones, you have to take it all in context.

And even on the 'gaining underserved points'. He gained points. That's kinda what matters, right? I mean there were games we've lost where we probably 'deserved' a point but didn't get one.

 

[$hoguN]

I just think we need to sell Sissoko and Aurier so we can’t play them

 

[Metalhead]

I don't think we have a choice.

The time for pushing the boat out was 2 years ago. If we do it now, we'll be playing catch-up but from a stronger position.

If we don't, we're done. It's over. I firmly believe the vast majority of our current squad will never win anything at Tottenham, and without a radical overhaul, none of them will.

I agree - you certainly don't need to persuade too many people that what you are saying makes sense and I'd love to be wrong but it's just hard to see us getting Brooks and King even though they would be relatively modest acquisitions.

 

[Trotter]

I mean if you're gonna include the 'buts' then you also have to include that he came in when Lloris was injured and then had to deal with Kane, Son, Davies, Sissoko all being injured for extended periods of time as well. You can't just cherry pick the bad ones, you have to take it all in context.

And even on the 'gaining underserved points'. He gained points. That's kinda what matters, right? I mean there were games we've lost where we probably 'deserved' a point but didn't get one.

All teams have injuries though, you can blame our management and medical team for lack of conditioning and rotation (e.g. Kane injury was non-contact) and points where you maybe deserved but didn't get are included in the XG table aswell, so there is total context.

Most can accept playing in a poor manner if you are getting results, but the fact he has our worst manager record for getting them in over a decade, does kind of nullify that argument (although again it is a small sample size), all that we are left with is poor football, not good results, disharmony and a general feeling of going in totally the wrong direction.

 

[bat-chain]

I totally get the blame Levy angle and I think it's somewhat valid, what scares me more than anything is how similar we are playing under him to how Man Utd played under him in his last days. Like that Sissoko sub for instance that was Fellaini esque.

I still think he can be a success at Spurs, but turgid football and Jose have a bit of a history that goes beyond our squad or our chairman.

I must say I do find it genuinely fascinating and eye opening that he seems to ask our players to press and actually desire this style even if it rarely shows up, I don't think anyone really associates him with it so hopefully there is something more to come.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

You would hope Mourinho sees that, hopefully after Sunday's game, the board now see it too.

Once Lo Celso comes back we look a lot stronger in midfield. If - and it's a big if - Ndombele comes good, we look stronger still. But that's a best case scenario, and it's not realistic for PEH, GLC and TN to play every game of the season.

As I've said before, I would love for us to go all in to try and sign David Brooks. Hell, go back to Bournemouth for both Brooks and King, give them CCV and Rose if we have to, whatever needs to be done to seal the deal. Now that we've (presumably) got a reasonable relationship with Norwich, I'd even take a chance on signing Cantwell too. We've clearly missed the boat on Grealish a long time ago, just like we did on Maddison and Tielemans, but we haven't yet on Cantwell and Brooks.

Fully agree, I'll be honest I haven't seen much of Hojberg before he came here but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt as he was Mourinhos buy. However only Lo Celso for me has proven that he is good enough for where we want to be, Ndombele has the talent for sure but as we know hasn't proved it yet but needs to play and be given a run if we're not signing anyone else.

I look at players like Winks and Sissoko, homegrown yes, hard working yes, but I don't even think they'd get in Brightons midfield. And these are our first choice options. Incredible really.

We should definitely be looking at Brooks, Cantwell and also Buendia.

 

[Albertbarich]

The theory is based on 'because Liverpool did it'.

Its based on the current best team in Europe aswell as we clearly won't spend more than we take in and we clearly need a rebuild. A tough choice somewhere down the line is going to be have to made.

 

[Maxtremist]

All teams have injuries though, you can blame management and medical team for lack of conditioning (e.g. Kane injury) and points where you maybe deserved but didn't get are included in the XG table aswell, so that is context.

Most can accept playing in a poor manner if you are getting results, but the fact he has our worst manager record for getting them in over a decade, does kind of nullify that argument (although again it is a small sample size), all that we are left with is poor football, not good results, disharmony and a general feeling of going in totally the wrong direction.

Yes, all teams have injuries but you cannot deny that last season we had key injuries to key players at the same time which, compared to our rivals, they did not have.

I really disagree in it nullifying that argument in that he did get the results. Compared to where we were when he came in to where we ended he got the results. And with the depleted squad at his disposal I don't think any of our other managers would have handled it better.

Yes, the football is far from the most entertaining but I think the results more often than not have been alright. Especially given all the injuries etc... Naturally some disappointment in there too but generally got us over the line.

For going in the wrong direction and disharmony, that was there before Mourinho. That was sadly the end of the Poch era and more of a levy thing. Just looking at what Mourinho has done and his time here, he got a team that was really starting to slip away and in a very unspectacular fashion, dragged us over the line. This dragging isn't fun and doesn't necessarily inspire confidence in everyone, I'm not saying that. But it does show that he has been able to deliver results and now that we're starting the season with, at the very least, a kinda fit squad, we can hope that'll help out.

 

[pablo73]

I really think it's unfair to lay too much of the blame at Mourinho's feet for our current state.

We saw under Pochettino in the last year a manager who had lost much of the dressing room, whose squad had gone stale, and whose last year of abysmal form was masked by an unprecedented UCL run. The reality was, many of the players looked like they had stopped playing for Poch.

The issue is, those players haven't re-captured their form under Mourinho, which would suggest to me that they hadn't just stopped playing for Poch - they've also stopped playing for Spurs.

I don't think we can overstate how disastrous the decision not to significantly strengthen the squad through 2017-18 was, with hindsight. As the chap on TalkSport (idk who it was, saw it on Twitter) said this morning - we've failed to adequately replace Walker, Rose, Wanyama, Dembele, Vertonghen or Eriksen. I appreciate we've signed some good players, with Lo Celso being the one who really stands out, but frankly that isn't good enough at this stage.

Poch was right when he said a major rebuild was needed, and I think Jose was naive in thinking that this squad could win things - not that any new manager could realistically come in and say "this lot are shite" on his first day.

IMO there are only three players (barring recent academy graduates and new signings) who should be safe at this point - those being Lloris, Son and Kane. Which feels a little harsh on Lo Celso who should also probably be in there. The rest of the squad needs to be entirely overhauled over the next 2-3 transfer windows if we're to have any hope of getting close to winning things again.

I understand we don't have unlimited money to spend, and covid has thrown in an unexpected curveball, but it's more than a little galling when we have the highest ticket prices in the league, additional revenue from things like the NFL, and boasts of our record profits and record turnover etc, to not see that reinvested in the squad.

It was, beyond doubt, utterly negligent of Levy to not spend for however many transfer windows it was (and by extension, negligent of Poch too, if the ITK is accurate that he was offered targets and said no); that could almost be forgiven if we learn from the mistake and secure Jose the players he needs (if the ITK is accurate that he has provided a realistic list of targets).

If we don't, we will lose Jose, and as much as some people on here act like he's the problem despite all evidence to the contrary - if Pochettino can't get these players to perform, and Mourinho can't get these players to perform, then no other manager is going to do it. Not Bielsa, not Conte, not Nagelsmann, not Eddie Howe, not Ledley King, not even Alex Ferguson.

tl;dr - Gut the squad, start afresh, back the damn manager.

Agree with pretty much all of that but do you really think the likes of Kane & Son will just stick around while we gut the squad and rebuild? Kane is very likely to leave at the end of this season (and who could blame him) unless we start winning trophies, or at least looking like major contenders again, which looks like a pipe dream at the moment to put it mildly.

In theory, I think the only realistic way we rebuild is to sell Kane and one or two others who would bring in big transfer fees. I say in theory because I have no faith whatsoever in the people running the club to invest that money wisely. So whichever way you look at it we are fucked, for the foreseeable anyway.

Still, at least we have an outstanding property portfolio.

 

[freeeki]

Agree with pretty much all of that but do you really think the likes of Kane & Son will just stick around while we gut the squad and rebuild? Kane is very likely to leave at the end of this season (and who could blame him) unless we start winning trophies, or at least looking like major contenders again, which looks like a pipe dream at the moment to put it mildly.

In theory, I think the only realistic way we rebuild is to sell Kane and one or two others who would bring in big transfer fees. I say in theory because I have no faith whatsoever in the people running the club to invest that money wisely. So whichever way you look at it we are fucked, for the foreseeable anyway.

Still, at least we have an outstanding property portfolio.

Not necessarily, no, and that's up to them - but they're the only ones I would say should be kept unless they're absolutely adamant about leaving.

Others, such as Dele, Lucas, Aurier, Winks, Sissoko, Rose and Lamela, should probably be replaced sooner rather than later while they actually still have a bit of sell-on value. You can add Gazzaniga and Davies into that mix too, in fairness.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Documentary started off ok episodes 1-2 but the longer it went on the more I just thought Levy has no clue about football and is far too involved in the football decisions and Jose is past it and is actually quite weird and I think the players will hate playing his style of football and that they'll get frustrated with him, I can now see why he ends up having to leave because the squad turns toxic because its all about criticising each other and whilst that is needed to an extent doing it too much just creates an overall negative toxic environment, I don't think any of those players look like they're enjoying their football at all and why would they when the style is to just defend and then create 1-2 chances a game, its boring to play in and I can see this all going the way it usually does with Jose. I think glimpses of the real Jose started to come out towards the end when he was speaking with the medical staff and Levy etc his body language is actually pretty rude just walking off from conversations so abruptly and not sympathising with what the medical team are telling him etc, I know he's won things in the past but I think the insight showed he's a changed man since real Madrid, he used to be more warm and confident now he's actually quite weird in my opinion.

I just hope we can sign Bale and a top striker who can just create chances themselves as that is what Jose needs as his tactics are all just focused on stopping the other team scoring that's it, its literally the opposite to Guadiola who is all about control the game with possession movement and attacking, Jose is all about controlling space and passing lanes and then just waiting to pounce to score on transition or counter-attack and right now we don't have the players to do that successfully like he had at Inter, Chelsea etc.

Jose has done an ok job results wise given very difficult circumstances but it is vital we get lo celso and ndombele both fit to consistenty play 90 mins otherwise we have zero creativity and will be toothless like we were vs everton and then we also need to sign a striker and a game changing AM to can win games on their own like Bale, if we keep relying on Lucas and Lamela and Dele to create chances on their own then we are screwed and things will just get worse and worse with Jose just getting more and more annoyed and critical and we all know how it ends.

I hope i'm wrong but the documentary has given me even less hope than I had before watching it that the club is actually in good hands on the football side of things.

 

[Trotter]

Not necessarily, no, and that's up to them - but they're the only ones I would say should be kept unless they're absolutely adamant about leaving.

Others, such as Dele, Lucas, Aurier, Winks, Sissoko, Rose and Lamela, should probably be replaced sooner rather than later while they actually still have a bit of sell-on value. You can add Gazzaniga and Davies into that mix too, in fairness.

Do you think though that Mourinho is the right manager to be in charge of such a rebuild though, because I think he is the total opposite to what is needed, it requires a progressive manager to do that, otherwise we could end up with a team of functional workhorses and be like Burnley.

 

[freeeki]

Do you think though that Mourinho is the right manager to be in charge of such a rebuild though, because I think he is the total opposite to what is needed, it requires a progressive manager to do that.

Find me a progressive manager who can manage Levy.

Pochettino certainly couldn't.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Do you think though that Mourinho is the right manager to be in charge of such a rebuild though, because I think he is the total opposite to what is needed, it requires a progressive manager to do that.

I think the signings have been ok, at least he has a good eye for a player but in terms of style of play and player development I think he's not the right guy at all. He might improve the mentality a bit but he might also just piss a lot of the players off.

 

[shelfboy68]

Documentary started off ok episodes 1-2 but the longer it went on the more I just thought Levy has no clue about football and is far too involved in the football decisions and Jose is past it and is actually quite weird and I think the players will hate playing his style of football and that they'll get frustrated with him, I can now see why he ends up having to leave because the squad turns toxic because its all about criticising each other and whilst that is needed to an extent doing it too much just creates an overall negative toxic environment, I don't think any of those players look like they're enjoying their football at all and why would they when the style is to just defend and then create 1-2 chances a game, its boring to play in and I can see this all going the way it usually does with Jose. I think glimpses of the real Jose started to come out towards the end when he was speaking with the medical staff and Levy etc his body language is actually pretty rude just walking off from conversations so abruptly and not sympathising with what the medical team are telling him etc, I know he's won things in the past but I think the insight showed he's a changed man since real Madrid, he used to be more warm and confident now he's actually quite weird in my opinion.

I just hope we can sign Bale and a top striker who can just create chances themselves as that is what Jose needs as his tactics are all just focused on stopping the other team scoring that's it, its literally the opposite to Guadiola who is all about control the game with possession movement and attacking, Jose is all about controlling space and passing lanes and then just waiting to pounce to score on transition or counter-attack and right now we don't have the players to do that successfully like he had at Inter, Chelsea etc.

Jose has done an ok job results wise given very difficult circumstances but it is vital we get lo celso and ndombele both fit to consistenty play 90 mins otherwise we have zero creativity and will be toothless like we were vs everton and then we also need to sign a striker and a game changing AM to can win games on their own like Bale, if we keep relying on Lucas and Lamela and Dele to create chances on their own then we are screwed and things will just get worse and worse with Jose just getting more and more annoyed and critical and we all know how it ends.

I hope i'm wrong but the documentary has given me even less hope than I had before watching it that the club is actually in good hands on the football side of things.

The football side of the club is in poor shape and getting worse.