Jose Mourinho

[ClintEastwould]

How about giving Mourinho some time to integrate his signings and achieve a more balanced side? He's started with the obvious improvement and addressed the defence.

Now let's see how we're going 10/12 games into the new season and assess the level of overall performance then.

We were on our knees when he took over and where on a complete downward spiral bereft of confidence so comparing the two in this muddled context is pointless, and I loved Poch.

Look, there was a time and period where I was refusing to give him the time and I hold my hands up with that because I was mourning post Poch and also thinking he wasn’t quite the right man for the job. I thought that we should continue a club wide philosophy such as Ajax and Barca who no matter what circumstance choose progressive football playing oriented philosophies. That’s no longer the case and I’m willing to accept accept the pragmatic approach.

It’s just I feel like people who try and defend Jose to the hills do so in a way that betrays the foundation that Poch built and fail to recognize that he worked miracles through underinvestment and stadium changes. It all fell apart and I think the main reason was Levy and the fallout mentality wise after the CL final. I accept that he had to go. But I’m still willing to defend him and I also feel like I’m entitled to begrudgingly accept Jose until he proves me otherwise that he was the right choice to finally bring us trophies which is honestly the only reason he is here at the end of the day.

 

[HedgieSpur]

Our football has gone from that which loses matches, to that which wins matches.

That's not a regression except in the minds of those happy being entertaining losers.

A ridiculously facile statement...even by SC standards.

 

[Mr Pink]

Look, there was a time and period where I was refusing to give him the time and I hold my hands up with that because I was mourning post Poch and also thinking he wasn’t quite the right man for the job. I thought that we should continue a club wide philosophy such as Ajax and Barca who no matter what circumstance choose progressive football playing oriented philosophies. That’s no longer the case and I’m willing to accept accept the pragmatic approach.

It’s just I feel like people who try and defend Jose to the hills do so in a way that betrays the foundation that Poch built and fail to recognize that he worked miracles through underinvestment and stadium changes. It all fell apart and I think the main reason was Levy and the fallout mentality wise after the CL final. I accept that he had to go. But I’m still willing to defend him and I also feel like I’m entitled to begrudgingly accept Jose until he proves me otherwise that he was the right choice to finally bring us trophies which is honestly the only reason he is here at the end of the day.

Yeah for sure. Poch did incredibly well but the wheels did fall off. I think he realised no matter how much progression we made Levy wasn't going to back his true vision and probably resulted in impasse and that filtered down through the squad and onto the pitch.

So we'll never know the degrees of who's fault or responsibility but we've got Jose now and I'm extremely confident we'll win something.

Its completely acceptable to have loved our era with Poch but to then recognise someone with more experience and a huge record of winning trophies could take us to the next level.

The problem is there's going to be growing pains and it hasn't been pretty for the most part so far but there is clear improvement.

I do believe Mourinho will mould us into a well oiled counter attacking side (predominantly). It won't always be pretty but they'll be times we'll be devastating to watch on the counter.

He needs time to get his players in and bring it all together.

Poch still brought us a long way, now its time for Mourinho to take us to the next level.

 

[ClintEastwould]

Yeah for sure. Poch did incredibly well but the wheels did fall off. I think he realised no matter how much progression we made Levy wasn't going to back his true vision and probably resulted in impasse and that filtered down through the squad and onto the pitch.

So we'll never know the degrees of who's fault or responsibility but we've got Jose now and I'm extremely confident we'll win something.

Its completely acceptable to have loved our era with Poch but to then recognise someone with more experience and a huge record of winning trophies could take us to the next level.

The problem is there's going to be growing pains and it hasn't been pretty for the most part so far but there is clear improvement.

I do believe Mourinho will mould us into a well oiled counter attacking side (predominantly). It won't always be pretty but they'll be times we'll be devastating to watch on the counter.

He needs time to get his players in and bring it all together.

Poch still brought us a long way, now its time for Mourinho to take us to the next level.

That’s fine it’s all I ask. I understand that Poch had to go but it was more circumstantial than anything really his fault. He was let down by Levy with the likes of Jansen and Nkoudo as well as 3 windows with no signings. FFS even Redknapp was given the same treatment with Saha and Nelson. Every time we are on the cusp he lets us down. He is entirely content with top 4.

I agree I had a few months of growing pains with Jose but I’m glad he has turned us around but the football is still shit. The only way that football is vindicated is with trophies so I will remain here begrudgingly awaiting that. Doesn’t mean I don’t back him.

 

[ClintEastwould]

Yeah for sure. Poch did incredibly well but the wheels did fall off. I think he realised no matter how much progression we made Levy wasn't going to back his true vision and probably resulted in impasse and that filtered down through the squad and onto the pitch.

So we'll never know the degrees of who's fault or responsibility but we've got Jose now and I'm extremely confident we'll win something.

Its completely acceptable to have loved our era with Poch but to then recognise someone with more experience and a huge record of winning trophies could take us to the next level.

The problem is there's going to be growing pains and it hasn't been pretty for the most part so far but there is clear improvement.

I do believe Mourinho will mould us into a well oiled counter attacking side (predominantly). It won't always be pretty but they'll be times we'll be devastating to watch on the counter.

He needs time to get his players in and bring it all together.

Poch still brought us a long way, now its time for Mourinho to take us to the next level.

To be fair I also enjoy devastating counter attack as an approach to football when it works. I’m just skeptical that it will work with us especially with Liverpool City and the likes so far ahead. I’m conflicted but I’m willing to spout my opinion. Cheers mate .

 

[Mr Pink]

That’s fine it’s all I ask. I understand that Poch had to go but it was more circumstantial than anything really his fault. He was let down by Levy with the likes of Jansen and Nkoudo as well as 3 windows with no signings. FFS even Redknapp was given the same treatment with Saha and Nelson. Every time we are on the cusp he lets us down. He is entirely content with top 4.

I agree I had a few months of growing pains with Jose but I’m glad he has turned us around but the football is still shit. The only way that football is vindicated is with trophies so I will remain here begrudgingly awaiting that. Doesn’t mean I don’t back him.

⁸

I think the football will improve though, once he gets the players in he wants.

I loved our high press with Poch but honestly thought our football with all that sterile and slow possession was boring as well - the last 6 months under Poch I mean.

It's been boring under Jose mostly as well, the difference being he's picking up results.

But, like I'm saying, new players in to help shape the team to Jose's liking could well see improvement on the overall performance levels.

 

[ClintEastwould]

⁸

I think the football will improve though, once he gets the players in he wants.

I loved our high press with Poch but honestly thought our football with all that sterile and slow possession was boring as well - the last 6 months under Poch I mean.

It's been boring under Jose mostly as well, the difference being he's picking up results.

But, like I'm saying, new players in to help shape the team to Jose's liking could well see improvement on the overall performance levels.

Okay mate we seem to be on a similar page it’s just it took me longer to come around to Jose and his methods for the greater good. That doesn’t mean that I’ll accept others shitting on Poch because honestly it was largely out of his hands. Our anger is misdirected. It goes further up.

 

[Jamturk]

We tried to replace an increasingly injury prone Dembele with an up and coming young player called Harry Winks. Doesn’t change that Winks wasn’t good enough, no more than it will for Rice when, who is a decent player but will never be in Kantes league. He’s overrated because he’s young and English and came through the West Ham youth system that produced 6 good players 20 years ago.

I have to disagree with you about Rice, he is already an excellent player and he is still a baby.

 

[sausage]

That’s fine it’s all I ask. I understand that Poch had to go but it was more circumstantial than anything really his fault. He was let down by Levy with the likes of Jansen and Nkoudo as well as 3 windows with no signings. FFS even Redknapp was given the same treatment with Saha and Nelson. Every time we are on the cusp he lets us down. He is entirely content with top 4.

Signings typical of each manager and not of the chairman. Hmmm.. I think we were let down, but the respective managers? Nope.

 

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

I think most would agree tbh, the Football has not been pleasing on the eye, on the whole, by any means.

What I personally have been trying to get across, is that the focus for JM was in becoming hard to score against as a priority, that it's the 1st stage in his process in improving everything, starting at the back and progressively improving going through midfield.
I don't mention the frontline because I don't think there's really that much to fix there, it's more the link up through midfield and on the flanks. If I remember correctly, I said fairly early doors that it'll get worse before it gets better precisely because the 1st priority was our defensive unity. On the whole, I think most would agree that stage 1 has been a success, relatively speaking. Barring SU, we've only let 1 goal in in the last 9 games, a marked improvement which has been instrumental in our points haul.

As others have said, the acid test now is what improvement he makes in our transition from defence to attack. I have no doubt that he'll improve the midfield we have, but I also have no doubt that it won't be enough with what we currently have. Player recruitment is definitely needed to improve our middle, and it remains to be seen whether he gets Ndombele on board. If he does then I truly believe our transition through the middle will be a nightmare for opposing teams.

Other than that, whilst Davies is solid and Aurier has improved defensively, we are missing two major offensive tools if we don't upgrade them two. I like both, but they're not of the standard we need if we're hunting down Prem honours.

So yes, the Football is a bit of an eyesore atm, but we're only really finishing stage 1 and moving into stage 2 of what I feel is a 4-5 stage process. So patience really is required.

My worry is the way he’s improved defensively is to have us play so deep, some games we are camped in our own half for 45 minutes. Everyone getting into defensive positions, chasing back taking a lot of responsibility off our defence. How are we going to move from that to stage 2 as you say and still look fairly watertight at the back.

 

[Johno1470]

My worry is the way he’s improved defensively is to have us play so deep, some games we are camped in our own half for 45 minutes. Everyone getting into defensive positions, chasing back taking a lot of responsibility off our defence. How are we going to move from that to stage 2 as you say and still look fairly watertight at the back.

The simple answer is that both Winks and Sissoko are unable to take the ball from deep and start attacks with that perfect pass never-mind playing a simple 10 yard ball. It is beyond me how so many fans expect Jose to be playing possession based football when our midfield is not capable of it. Hojberg will be a good start and as soon as we see the likes of Sissoko being taken out of the first 11 (he has his use as a squad player) we will start to see some changes in our attacking shape. You can't lose the likes of Dembele, Eriksen, a fit Wanyama or in form Dier, replace them with Winks and Sissoko and expect the same results.

Jose has made a solid attempt at fixing the defence and with a few more additions and sales we'll be a lot more solid. Then we need to address the midfield which I 100% believe we will do. Our attack scores goals regardless and we just need to tweak the squad a little bit to unleash them.

 

[ClintEastwould]

Signings typical of each manager and not of the chairman. Hmmm.. I think we were let down, but the respective managers? Nope.

Wait. Poch’s asks we’re admittedly hit or miss. But that applies to any manager. The consensus of ITK is that after a time he was unwilling to accept the likes of Nkoudo. Some will say then okay he should’ve made concessions but no. He needed literal quality reinforcements

 

[Shadydan]

My worry is the way he’s improved defensively is to have us play so deep, some games we are camped in our own half for 45 minutes. Everyone getting into defensive positions, chasing back taking a lot of responsibility off our defence. How are we going to move from that to stage 2 as you say and still look fairly watertight at the back.

Press resistant, quick release midfielders.

If only we had a couple on our books...

 

[Ionman34]

Look, there was a time and period where I was refusing to give him the time and I hold my hands up with that because I was mourning post Poch and also thinking he wasn’t quite the right man for the job. I thought that we should continue a club wide philosophy such as Ajax and Barca who no matter what circumstance choose progressive football playing oriented philosophies. That’s no longer the case and I’m willing to accept accept the pragmatic approach.

It’s just I feel like people who try and defend Jose to the hills do so in a way that betrays the foundation that Poch built and fail to recognize that he worked miracles through underinvestment and stadium changes. It all fell apart and I think the main reason was Levy and the fallout mentality wise after the CL final. I accept that he had to go. But I’m still willing to defend him and I also feel like I’m entitled to begrudgingly accept Jose until he proves me otherwise that he was the right choice to finally bring us trophies which is honestly the only reason he is here at the end of the day.

And that's progression.

Nothing wrong with being concerned, we all are. I've defended JM purely because I believe it's unreasonable to expect him to suddenly produce champagne Football when we all know that the rot was well and truly in the team long before he took over. Whether Poch was partly or mostly culpable none of us will truly know, and it's largely irrelevant. We are where we are and we currently have a Manager working on rectifying the deficiencies. I also believe that he will instill that winning mentality that I think we've missed for decades.

I had my reservations about Poch when he first came to us, but he won me over and, for 2 seasons, made watching us play a joy mostly, so I understand the reservations about JM.

But what I see him doing is what I believe is necessary to build a team that will win far more matches than it loses. Some games will be a joy to watch, some will be torturous, and everything in between.

Basically the same as with every manager in the game, bar none.

I don't expect everyone to agree with this, that would be ridiculous, but what I do expect is that judgement be reserved until he's had the opportunity to build the team in his image.

The fact that you're prepared to do this, after some fairly vehement criticism of him earlier this season, is commendable.

 

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

The simple answer is that both Winks and Sissoko are unable to take the ball from deep and start attacks with that perfect pass never-mind playing a simple 10 yard ball. It is beyond me how so many fans expect Jose to be playing possession based football when our midfield is not capable of it. Hojberg will be a good start and as soon as we see the likes of Sissoko being taken out of the first 11 (he has his use as a squad player) we will start to see some changes in our attacking shape. You can't lose the likes of Dembele, Eriksen, a fit Wanyama or in form Dier, replace them with Winks and Sissoko and expect the same results.

Jose has made a solid attempt at fixing the defence and with a few more additions and sales we'll be a lot more solid. Then we need to address the midfield which I 100% believe we will do. Our attack scores goals regardless and we just need to tweak the squad a little bit to unleash them.

That’s what I’m saying, if we start to get more dominant with more technical players in midfield and naturally move up the pitch and dominant possession and territory more, are the defence going to be as solid defending higher up the pitch and without as much protection as at the moment when we lose the ball everyones deep and in defensive positions.

Unless we sign absolute world class midfielders who can dominate with and without the ball are our defence going to be as tight. To say Mourinho has sorted out the defence in isolation is a bit misleading. We do have Ndombele who is great in tight areas in midfield he’s obviously not good enough defensively for Mourinho so who are we going to get that’s going to give us both. HoIjberg is quite basic on the ball too, I don’t think he’s going to give us to much in that respect.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

I have to disagree with you about Rice, he is already an excellent player and he is still a baby.

I’m not saying he’s bad, but he’s done nothing to warrant the level of praise he gets in my opinion. He’s been a constant part of a very poor defensive function. I’d say he’s about par with Eric Dier of the same age from what I’ve seen and could go very far but could also go awry depending on circumstances.

 

[Johno1470]

That’s what I’m saying, if we start to get more dominant with more technical players in midfield and naturally move up the pitch and dominant possession and territory more, are the defence going to be as solid defending higher up the pitch and without as much protection as at the moment when we lose the ball everyones deep and in defensive positions.

Unless we sign absolute world class midfielders who can dominate with and without the ball are our defence going to be as tight. To say Mourinho has sorted out the defence in isolation is a bit misleading. We do have Ndombele who is great in tight areas in midfield he’s obviously not good enough defensively for Mourinho so who are we going to get that’s going to give us both. HoIjberg is quite basic on the ball too, I don’t think he’s going to give us to much in that respect.

I don't think it's misleading whatsoever to say Jose has made solid "attempt" at fixing our defence. There are still issues to sort out but the stats don't lie. I'm not going to go through previous pages to find them but post lockdown we've kept a fair few clean sheets and Sheff Utd aside our defence has seen major improvements.

My issue has always been with our midfield since Dier and Wanyama have left it. Our current midfielders offer little to no defensive awareness or ability to tackle. GLC puts a shift in and can tackle but he's not there to do defensive work. Sissoko and Winks therefore are assigned with the defensive duties in our midfield. They are constantly ball watching when out of possession or put a shift in without any conviction in the tackle. Hojberg will not immediately solve all of our problems I know that, however he's been part of a well drilled Southampton side of late. He's still only 24/25 years old and seems to have the tactical awareness to be a Jose midfielder too. He has great physical attributes, strong in a tackle and has an eye for a pass but they key thing for me is that he always seems to be aware and switched on when out of possession. I would like to see us sign someone else who is known more for their defensive duties but due to the current financial climate that is very very unlikely. However, I would confidently predict that sloting Hojberg in our midfield in place of Sissoko would drastically improve the team.

 

[DelBoyN17]

I think most would agree tbh, the Football has not been pleasing on the eye, on the whole, by any means.

What I personally have been trying to get across, is that the focus for JM was in becoming hard to score against as a priority, that it's the 1st stage in his process in improving everything, starting at the back and progressively improving going through midfield.
I don't mention the frontline because I don't think there's really that much to fix there, it's more the link up through midfield and on the flanks. If I remember correctly, I said fairly early doors that it'll get worse before it gets better precisely because the 1st priority was our defensive unity. On the whole, I think most would agree that stage 1 has been a success, relatively speaking. Barring SU, we've only let 1 goal in in the last 9 games, a marked improvement which has been instrumental in our points haul.

As others have said, the acid test now is what improvement he makes in our transition from defence to attack. I have no doubt that he'll improve the midfield we have, but I also have no doubt that it won't be enough with what we currently have. Player recruitment is definitely needed to improve our middle, and it remains to be seen whether he gets Ndombele on board. If he does then I truly believe our transition through the middle will be a nightmare for opposing teams.

Other than that, whilst Davies is solid and Aurier has improved defensively, we are missing two major offensive tools if we don't upgrade them two. I like both, but they're not of the standard we need if we're hunting down Prem honours.

So yes, the Football is a bit of an eyesore atm, but we're only really finishing stage 1 and moving into stage 2 of what I feel is a 4-5 stage process. So patience really is required.

most logical thread I’ve seen in a while ??

 

[sausage]

Wait. Poch’s asks we’re admittedly hit or miss. But that applies to any manager. The consensus of ITK is that after a time he was unwilling to accept the likes of Nkoudo. Some will say then okay he should’ve made concessions but no. He needed literal quality reinforcements

ITK said that Janssen was his preferred target, so he was given that. We know he had a poor eye for a transfer, and so excuses should stop being made for that well after the fact. It seems on here to be the paradox of "back the manager...except if he wants someone crap, then get someone good instead...but back the manager". No team has the ability to do that without missing more than they hit.

 

[spids]

That’s what I’m saying, if we start to get more dominant with more technical players in midfield and naturally move up the pitch and dominant possession and territory more, are the defence going to be as solid defending higher up the pitch and without as much protection as at the moment when we lose the ball everyones deep and in defensive positions.

Unless we sign absolute world class midfielders who can dominate with and without the ball are our defence going to be as tight. To say Mourinho has sorted out the defence in isolation is a bit misleading. We do have Ndombele who is great in tight areas in midfield he’s obviously not good enough defensively for Mourinho so who are we going to get that’s going to give us both. HoIjberg is quite basic on the ball too, I don’t think he’s going to give us to much in that respect.

This is why Mourinho normally favours a specialist DCM who can also disrupt play quickly, either through ability to win the ball in the middle third (Hojbjerg the best in the league at this statistically), or tactically foul, with the team able to rapidly resume a low block. Against the best teams (Liverpool, Man City, Barca etc.) he will play an extra defensive midefielder purely to be disciplined in terms of positioning and physicality (why Sissoko is worth keeping as a squad player). Get a top drawer DCM and maybe he can play Lo Celso and Ndombele in a 4-3-3. And in big games, especially away from home, you drop Ndombele for a Sissoko and revert to 4-5-1 counter attacking. That 5-0 drubbing by Barca really did make him risk averse!