Jose Mourinho

[ClintEastwould]

I don't even know what narrative you're looking to challenge - pretty much everything you said is the general consensus about lack of investment which caused it...oh and letting go of and not replacing Dembele.

But our football has been bad since 2017 and Poch has to take some of the blame...anyway I don't know why we constantly have to go back to Poch ffs lol

Our football has been bad since 2017?! Then what the hell is it now? That’s the narrative I’m challenging. FFS mate.

 

[Shadydan]

Our football has been bad since 2017?! Then what the hell is it now? That’s the narrative I’m challenging. FFS mate.

I literally countered this in the post you initially responded to - you answered it and made excuses.

 

[ClintEastwould]

@Shadydan You can say we have slowly regressed as a side since 2017. That’s fair. But to call our football bad in the entire time since is absolute nonsense. We spanked Madrid, Arsenal, United, Everton and Liverpool at home 17/18. Dominated Juventus away. Beat Chelsea away in the same season.

Just absolute nonsense.

 

[ClintEastwould]

Just because City ran away with the title amassing 100 points that season doesn’t mean we were a bad side. We were still phenomenal. At fucking wembley too.

 

[Shadydan]

@Shadydan You can say we have slowly regressed as a side since 2017. That’s fair. But to call our football bad in the entire time since is absolute nonsense. We spanked Madrid, Arsenal, United, Everton and Liverpool at home 17/18. Dominated Juventus away. Beat Chelsea away in the same season.

Just absolute nonsense.

Now you're making things up, when did I say our football for the entire time was bad lol

This is literally the 3rd time I've had to explain this to you, I said our football had regressed since then and improved since November last year where we really hit rock bottom.

You're bringing up matches in the season where we peaked, I'm talking about the 2018/19 season (post World Cup) keep up.

 

[ClintEastwould]

Now you're making things up, when did I say our football for the entire time was bad lol

This is literally the 3rd time I've had to explain this to you, I said our football had regressed since then and improved since November last year where we really hit rock bottom.

You're bringing up matches in the season where we peaked, I'm talking about the 2018/19 season (post World Cup) keep up.

You said, and I quote “But our football has been bad since 2017”.

Also 2018/19, 25 matches into the season we were 5 points off the top. Sorry mate.

 

[freeeki]

Maybe "progress" means different things to different people. We've progressed points wise (from a very low base) but imo our football has regressed.

You're free to disagree of course but Im struggling to see why this is such a difficult concept for some posters to comprehend.

Our football has gone from that which loses matches, to that which wins matches.

That's not a regression except in the minds of those happy being entertaining losers.

 

[Mr Pink]

Yes we were winning matches but in comparison to the previous season how many stand out performances do you remember from that period? There wasn't many in fact we were being outplayed in a few of those matches but we had match winners that would pull it out the bag for us.

This is how you compare year on year performances, we regressed since the year before and were gradually getting worse throughout the season, I'm not saying that our performances now are on par with this period, I'm saying they are better than they were at the start of this season.

I was at the 1-0 against Newcastle at Wembley, Son got the winner in the 80th minute.

That was in the early February and the start of the decline under Poch. Prior to Xmas 18, we had smashed Chelsea 3-1 and then Everton away 6-2.

But into the new year there was a significant drop off even though we were still getting over the line in some games.

Shortly after Newcastle was the 3-1 against Leicester but they had huge chances in that game and on another day would of won it.

 

[Shadydan]

You said, and I quote “But our football has been bad since 2017”.

Also 2018/19, 25 matches into the season we were 5 points off the top. Sorry mate.

You would have to take that quote completely out of context just to formulate a point to argue against wouldn't you...okay bad as in not as good as it was previously, ultimately my point still stands though.

You can dismiss the performances all you want but we were on a downward trend in 2018/19, we weren't playing well and only had a handful of standout/complete performances if I recall...Chelsea home (3-1) Everton away (6-2) Man Utd at home (0-1) Leicester away (2-0) you could say Bournemouth home as well (5-0) I remember because everyone one complaining that we weren't dominating or pressing as much. You keep referring to the fact that we were 5 points off the top but that says nothing about our performances, they were shoddy and and we were playing on auto pilot.

 

[ClintEastwould]

You would have to take that quote completely out of context just to formulate a point to argue against wouldn't you...okay bad as in not as good as it was previously, ultimately my point still stands though.

You can dismiss the performances all you want but we were on a downward trend in 2018/19, we weren't playing well and only had a handful of standout/complete performances if I recall...Chelsea home (3-1) Everton away (6-2) Man Utd at home (0-1) Leicester away (2-0) you could say Bournemouth home as well (5-0) I remember because everyone one complaining that we weren't dominating or pressing as much. You keep referring to the fact that we were 5 points off the top but that says nothing about our performances, they were shoddy and and we were playing on auto pilot.

It’s literally in the thread above us I’m not going to do the work for you. If that’s not what you meant then fair enough but it’s literally what you said.

Now, much of the turgid possession conceding performances under Mourinho is supposedly vindicated because the results are coming in. But when it comes to Poch then it’s not the same is it? Note: we still got 4th and to a CL final last season. People like to excuse our horrendous form before the break because of injuries but now all of a sudden Poch can’t have the same excuse? I’m just calling out the hypocrisy I see. Much of the same stick that is used to batter Poch is used to prop up Jose.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

I challenge anybody who thinks themselves capable to find three objective reasons for why Tottenham has regressed under Mourinho, without arguing on the basis of showcasing why it was so hard to be poor Pochettino in the first place.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

It’s literally in the thread above us I’m not going to do the work for you. If that’s not what you meant then fair enough but it’s literally what you said.

Now, much of the turgid possession conceding performances under Mourinho is supposedly vindicated because the results are coming in. But when it comes to Poch then it’s not the same is it? People like to excuse our horrendous form before the break because of injuries but now all of a sudden Poch can’t have the same excuse? I’m just calling out the hypocrisy I see. Much of the same stick that is used to batter Poch is used to prop up Jose.

Goes both ways, mate. Every single page in this thread has a 30% ratio of posts pointing to how bad it was to be poor Pochettino, implying that really we should still prefer him way over Mourinho because poor, poor, Pochettino, you know? And to your point about injuries - injuries to the degree we suffered has a cause, and underlying problem. They don't just pop out of nowhere. What could that underlying issue be, I wonder.

 

[Shadydan]

It’s literally in the thread above us I’m not going to do the work for you. If that’s not what you meant then fair enough but it’s literally what you said.

Now, much of the turgid possession conceding performances under Mourinho is supposedly vindicated because the results are coming in. But when it comes to Poch then it’s not the same is it? Note: we still got 4th and to a CL final last season. People like to excuse our horrendous form before the break because of injuries but now all of a sudden Poch can’t have the same excuse? I’m just calling out the hypocrisy I see. Much of the same stick that is used to batter Poch is used to prop up Jose.

Poch was in his 5th and 6th season, Jose is in his 1st so yeah I think we'll leave the comparison there. I think we can vindicate him on the basis of the fact that we were utter shite before he came in and at least we are looking like a team again despite our forward play being dire to watch which I think we can improve on. Before he was sacked we were shite under Poch in all areas - defence, midfield, attack, mentality, application, game management under Jose you can say at least 3 of those aspects we've improved on.

That's where the comparison stops.

If you want to totally absolve Poch of the blame for our performances in his final year or so be my guest but this is just utter delusional talk.

 

[Ionman34]

Ive been quoted on here as saying that "the football has been garbage from Jan 2019". Then Jose came in and has improved results but the football IMO has actually been worst than the last knockings of Poch. At best (again imo) just as bad.

To gloss over our dreadful football to prove that one is some sort of "real fan" is just as bad as glossing over the marked improvement in results imo. It IS possible to do both...in fact Jose and Kane pretty much acknowledged the same thing.

I think most would agree tbh, the Football has not been pleasing on the eye, on the whole, by any means.

What I personally have been trying to get across, is that the focus for JM was in becoming hard to score against as a priority, that it's the 1st stage in his process in improving everything, starting at the back and progressively improving going through midfield.
I don't mention the frontline because I don't think there's really that much to fix there, it's more the link up through midfield and on the flanks. If I remember correctly, I said fairly early doors that it'll get worse before it gets better precisely because the 1st priority was our defensive unity. On the whole, I think most would agree that stage 1 has been a success, relatively speaking. Barring SU, we've only let 1 goal in in the last 9 games, a marked improvement which has been instrumental in our points haul.

As others have said, the acid test now is what improvement he makes in our transition from defence to attack. I have no doubt that he'll improve the midfield we have, but I also have no doubt that it won't be enough with what we currently have. Player recruitment is definitely needed to improve our middle, and it remains to be seen whether he gets Ndombele on board. If he does then I truly believe our transition through the middle will be a nightmare for opposing teams.

Other than that, whilst Davies is solid and Aurier has improved defensively, we are missing two major offensive tools if we don't upgrade them two. I like both, but they're not of the standard we need if we're hunting down Prem honours.

So yes, the Football is a bit of an eyesore atm, but we're only really finishing stage 1 and moving into stage 2 of what I feel is a 4-5 stage process. So patience really is required.

 

[ClintEastwould]

Goes both ways, mate. Every single page in this thread has a 30% ratio of posts pointing to how bad it was to be poor Pochettino, implying that really we should still prefer him way over Mourinho because poor, poor, Pochettino, you know? And to your point about injuries - injuries to the degree we suffered has a cause, and underlying problem. They don't just pop out of nowhere. What could that underlying issue be, I wonder.

Well you know on which side of the aisle I fall. I accept and am grateful for the results under Jose but Im sorry I just detest the performances. People act like saying that is somehow a slight on the manager and like I’m not backing him to succeed.

 

[Montalbano]

With that attitude I think we should keep him and look to loan him this summer if we can fund our transfer kitty through other sales. He's got all the ability in the world and just needs experience to learn the mental side of the game, gain some composure and cut out the silly mistakes that are holding him back.

Even if we eventually wind up selling him I have a hard time believing that his value wouldn't increase substantially by going out on loan to Leeds for the season. If he's able to improve his decisionmaking he'll be worth well in excess of 15m IMO. Better to loan him than to sell him when his value is low if we can do without the money this summer.

I think it's about time any of the rumblings around Mourinho's inability to connect with our players and get them to fight for him are put to rest. It speaks volumes when a 10-cap senior international player goes from playing 900 minutes in the previous Premier League season to 67 total minutes and says this about him.

Mourinho brought a new mentality to this football club in a time of complete disarray. He's been a breath of fresh air.

 

[punkisback]

I hope that he is aiming for a Europa cup win next season; it is definitely doable it we invest. What I like about him is that he treats all knockout games like it is a final

 

[RikkiRocket]

I think it's about time any of the rumblings around Mourinho's inability to connect with our players and get them to fight for him are put to rest. It speaks volumes when a 10-cap senior international player goes from playing 900 minutes in the previous Premier League season to 67 total minutes and says this about him.

Mourinho brought a new mentality to this football club in a time of complete disarray. He's been a breath of fresh air.

Or Foyth is just kissing his ass doing what the club who pays him are telling him to say. Cynic? Moi? Mais Non

 

[ralvy]

I was told a very, very long time ago when I was (supposedly) studyiny economics, that statistics were only of any interest to people trying to support their own agenda. I've seen nothing to persuade me otherwise since. This case is a classic example. 1 league place different puts an entirely different spin on each side of the argument (which is a pretty pointless one anyway).

Yeah, go tell that to experimental scientists or to people making a living out of online poker (yeah, there are still quite a few out there). Understanding statistics and how to apply them can make one a very wealthy person in certain fields.

 

[Mr Pink]

Well you know on which side of the aisle I fall. I accept and am grateful for the results under Jose but Im sorry I just detest the performances. People act like saying that is somehow a slight on the manager and like I’m not backing him to succeed.

How about giving Mourinho some time to integrate his signings and achieve a more balanced side? He's started with the obvious improvement and addressed the defence.

Now let's see how we're going 10/12 games into the new season and assess the level of overall performance then.

We were on our knees when he took over and where on a complete downward spiral bereft of confidence so comparing the two in this muddled context is pointless, and I loved Poch.