A bit of perspective

[van_Pommel]

Brilliant season, best we've ever had in the modern era. Time will tell how next season is in Wembley. Time will tell if we keep our players.

The media can do one.

Now let's finish the season respectfully and cement our progress from last season by showing the mental maturity.

Special time for the club, privileged times to be a fan.

This this and this.

 

[ohtottenham!]

This is going to split opinion and annoy some people but I'm gonna say it anyway.

There's a lot of talk about trophies and the fact that we haven't won anything for a while but consider this. Arsenal have won the FA Cup twice in the last three years but has it helped their fans believe that Wenger should stay? Nope. Why? Cos they're under performing in the league and still can't get past the 1st knockout stage in CL.

What's even worse? I had to google last season's FA Cup final because I couldn't remember who played in it, let alone who won it. Apparently it was Man Utd, beating Palace 2-1!? I have absolutely no recollection of this at all. Now in fairness, my first child was less than 10 days old at this point but still, who really cares that they won it? I don't. Not envious at all.

There are only 2 trophies worth winning in club football for Spurs, the Premier League and the Champions League. We are challenging for the first already and getting closer. We are now back in the CL for the 2nd reason in a row and can hopefully now maintain that consistency for years to come. I'm personally envious of teams that are winning their domestic league and teams like Juve and Real Madrid that are consistently making semi-finals and finals of major european comps.

If we win the FA Cup or League Cup along the way then cool, that's great. But you'll have to forgive me if I'm really not bothered about it and more importantly I refuse to let it detract from what has been the best season I've known as a Spurs fan.

This thread's about perspective, and agree PL and CL are the top prizes, but truth is we've won f..k all of note for decades, so an FA Cup would be huge for us. The only reason you can't remember last year's Cup winner was because it was one of the usual suspects...Utd! Could have been City, Chels, Arse, even Liverpool. Leicester won the PL last year and everyone remembers it 'cause it wasn't one of the usual suspects.

I can't be clear who won the PL 2 or 3 years ago without looking it up. I just know it was one of the usual PL suspects, Chels, City or Utd. We need to become one of the usual suspects for any cup, and we're on the right track. Winning an FA Cup would mean much more to us than it would for any of the usual suspects, because this great club needs a cup to show the progress it's made.

 

[whitestreak]

http://www.footballinsider247.com/gary-neville-delivers-verdict-pochettinos-time-tottenham/

Gary Neville delivers verdict on Pochettino’s time at Tottenham
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8th May, 2017, 7:26 PM
By Harvey Byrne

Former Manchester United defender and Sky Sports pundit Gary Neville has told that he believes manager Mauricio Pochettino has “done a brilliant job” during his time at Tottenham.

The Argentine manager took charge of the north London club in the summer of 2014 after proving a success at Premier League rivals Southampton.

He has since helped Spurs break back into England’s top four with a third place finish in the last campaign, while the club are currently set to finish second with three matches left.

Now, Neville has explained that he believes Pochettino inherited a “shambles” of a team alongside a “toxic dressing room” and has since created the best Tottenham team he’s seen in his lifetime in just three years in charge.

“I don’t go a long with this theory that they (Tottenham) have tow in a trophy to make it a success for this team,” started Neville speaking on Monday evening’s Sky Sports Monday Night Football show.

“I think back to Tottenham teams that won trophies maybe in the 80’s sort of the FA Cup. This is the best Tottenham team I have seen in my lifetime. The most exciting because you think of the shambles that Pochettino picked up a few years a go. Toxic dressing room, for me he’s done a brilliant job and I think we should celebrate what Tottenham have done this season.”

Tottenham have now been considered the main rivals for both Leicester and Chelsea for the Premier League title in the last two seasons.

However, a 1-0 defeat against West Ham on Friday evening has put a severe dent in Spurs’ title hopes with Chelsea now preparing to take on Middlesbrough at Stamford Bridge on Monday evening.

A win for the Blues could put Antonio Conte’s men seven points ahead with three matches left, meaning it would take a massive collapse for Tottenham to lift the title at the end of the current campaign.

In other Tottenham news, Pochettino is sizing up this Premier League ace.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

This thread's about perspective, and agree PL and CL are the top prizes, but truth is we've won f..k all of note for decades, so an FA Cup would be huge for us. The only reason you can't remember last year's Cup winner was because it was one of the usual suspects...Utd! Could have been City, Chels, Arse, even Liverpool. Leicester won the PL last year and everyone remembers it 'cause it wasn't one of the usual suspects.

I can't be clear who won the PL 2 or 3 years ago without looking it up. I just know it was one of the usual PL suspects, Chels, City or Utd. We need to become one of the usual suspects for any cup, and we're on the right track. Winning an FA Cup would mean much more to us than it would for any of the usual suspects, because this great club needs a cup to show the progress it's made.

Perspective?

The FA Cup, much as I'd love us to win it, is not what it was, no matter how much anyone tries to kid themselves otherwise.

Top teams play weakened teams in it. They prioritise the league. (Man Utd pulled out of it altogether when they had bigger fish to fry.) Not a club in the country would choose the FA Cup over the league title anymore.

The FA Cup used to be equal in status to the league, and bigger in terms of glamour. Now try telling anyone that our haul of eight FA Cup wins and two League Championships is the equivalent of ten League trophies and no FA cups and they'll either laugh in your face or bring you a cup of tea, a soft biscuit and a tartan blanket, depending on how sympathetic they feel.

The Champions League changed everything and it's no good pretending otherwise: the FA Cup is a consolation prize for teams who aren't winning the League or the CL.

If winning the FA Cup twice in the last few years wasn't enough to placate Arsenal fans, it shouldn't be enough for us. We are not some sort of pumped up Southampton who think a trophy, any trophy, is all that counts.

I want us to be the best team in the country. I'd sacrifice the FA Cup for the League title every day of my life. Sad, but true, for me anyway.

 

[ohtottenham!]

Perspective?

The FA Cup, much as I'd love us to win it, is not what it was, no matter how much anyone tries to kid themselves otherwise.

Top teams play weakened teams in it. They prioritise the league. (Man Utd pulled out of it altogether when they had bigger fish to fry.) Not a club in the country would choose the FA Cup over the league title anymore.

The FA Cup used to be equal in status to the league, and bigger in terms of glamour. Now try telling anyone that our haul of eight FA Cup wins and two League Championships is the equivalent of ten League trophies and no FA cups and they'll either laugh in your face or bring you a cup of tea, a soft biscuit and a tartan blanket, depending on how sympathetic they feel.

The Champions League changed everything and it's no good pretending otherwise: the FA Cup is a consolation prize for teams who aren't winning the League or the CL.

If winning the FA Cup twice in the last few years wasn't enough to placate Arsenal fans, it shouldn't be enough for us. We are not some sort of pumped up Southampton who think a trophy is all that counts.

I want us to be the best team in the country. I'd sacrifice the FA Cup for the League title every day of my life. Sad, but true, for me anyway.

Who wouldn't sacrifice the FA Cup for the PL? Can't think of anyone who would. The perspective is for us, winning the FA Cup would mean much more than it would for any of the usual suspects...City, Chels, Utd, Arse, 'pool etc. Everyone knows the league is our main goal, but winning the FA Cup would still be great.

 

[slartibartfast]

Perspective. Anyone hear some supposed spurs fan on ts ranting about its all on Levy after wham result.
What a total fkin bellend.
Perspective? Whats that then?

 

[slartibartfast]

Perspective?
I want us to be the best team in the country. I'd sacrifice the FA Cup for the League title every day of my life. Sad, but true, for me anyway.

Of course you would. Who wouldn't?
The question should be would you sacrifice an fa cup win for not winning anything? That's where we are at now no matter how high we finish, how many times we qualify for cl or how far we go in it.
2nd 3rd 4th isnt success. It is to owners and shareholders but not to most fans including me. Its an achievement but not success.
I want some silverware

 

[Dougal]

Of course you would. Who wouldn't?
The question should be would you sacrifice an fa cup win for not winning anything? That's where we are at now no matter how high we finish, how many times we qualify for cl or how far we go in it.
2nd 3rd 4th isnt success. It is to owners and shareholders but not to most fans including me. Its an achievement but not success.
I want some silverware

Having spent 25 years waiting for 3rd and 54 years waiting for second I think we can be patient with the current crop for a little bit longer.

 

[shelfboy68]

Having spent 25 years waiting for 3rd and 54 years waiting for second I think we can be patient with the current crop for a little bit longer.

I'm sure fans will be a bit patient but will the players let's face it most will not stay around for another 5 years playing second best or also ran all the time, a significant number nowadays cite wanting to win things as an excuse to move to clubs that do so on a regular basis.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

Of course you would. Who wouldn't?
The question should be would you sacrifice an fa cup win for not winning anything? That's where we are at now no matter how high we finish, how many times we qualify for cl or how far we go in it.
2nd 3rd 4th isnt success. It is to owners and shareholders but not to most fans including me. Its an achievement but not success.
I want some silverware

In some ways we're saying almostvthe same thing.


Yes, I would sacrifice an FA cup win for a serious attempt to win the league. In other words, I wouldn't want us to risk losing league points to secure a cup win.

But this is really just playing with words. The point is all this calling for a trophy is missing the point a little bit. A trophy would be nice but I've spent a lifetime wanting us to prove we're the best team in the country and we're closer now than ever, and the FACup doesn't mean that much to me anymore: it would always be a consolation prize if we couldn't win the league.

Silverware shmilverware. I want the top prize. I don't want us settling for consolation prizes any more.

 

[ohtottenham!]

Of course you would. Who wouldn't?
The question should be would you sacrifice an fa cup win for not winning anything? That's where we are at now no matter how high we finish, how many times we qualify for cl or how far we go in it.
2nd 3rd 4th isnt success. It is to owners and shareholders but not to most fans including me. Its an achievement but not success.
I want some silverware

For me, I'd rather take a top 4 place over an FA Cup. The financial realities of the modern game dictate that. Winning the PL is the pinnacle. Getting top 4 should be an expectation now...that is a huge statement re how far we've come! Now, seeing Lloris lift up the FA Cup at Wembley would be something that would still give so much joy to all of us.

 

[ohtottenham!]

Silverware shmilverware. I want the top prize. I don't want us settling for consolation prizes any more.

So, next season, we have a similar season to this. We finish second to Chels again. We'd all be disappointed we don't win the PL. But, we're in the FA Cup Final against Arsenal...sure, you'd be disinterested and crapping on about shmilverware!

 

[Dougal]

I'm sure fans will be a bit patient but will the players let's face it most will not stay around for another 5 years playing second best or also ran all the time, a significant number nowadays cite wanting to win things as an excuse to move to clubs that do so on a regular basis.

There's always different ways to spin it. Up until a defeat there has been nothing but praise for the perceived team spirit. I'm not panicking now just because the opposing fans and media have finally witnessed us wobble and shot their load. In 10 games I see 9 wins and a defeat, not just a defeat.

 

[slartibartfast]

For me, I'd rather take a top 4 place over an FA Cup. The financial realities of the modern game dictate that. Winning the PL is the pinnacle. Getting top 4 should be an expectation now...that is a huge statement re how far we've come! Now, seeing Lloris lift up the FA Cup at Wembley would be something that would still give so much joy to all of us.

Have to agree to disagree. We've now finished top 4 4 times recently but won fk all.
Obviously we want to be top 4 to help improve profile, finances and bring better players but I'd sacrifice 2 of those top4 finishs for 2 fa cups in a heart beat.
Trophies also help bring in players, keep your better players and raise club profile.
Top 4 is not the be all and end all.
Guess we all want our cake and eat it.

 

[Bobbins]

In some ways we're saying almostvthe same thing.


Yes, I would sacrifice an FA cup win for a serious attempt to win the league. In other words, I wouldn't want us to risk losing league points to secure a cup win.

But this is really just playing with words. The point is all this calling for a trophy is missing the point a little bit. A trophy would be nice but I've spent a lifetime wanting us to prove we're the best team in the country and we're closer now than ever, and the FACup doesn't mean that much to me anymore: it would always be a consolation prize if we couldn't win the league.

Silverware shmilverware. I want the top prize. I don't want us settling for consolation prizes any more.

But we don't even win the consolation prizes FFS! It would be every fans dream to have to "settle" for winning the FA Cup!

"Silverware shmilverware" is officially the maddest, most completely mental thing I think I've ever heard in relation to the game of football. People talk about how the game has changed, about how money has become the prime motivator and the source of all success, about how some clubs see success on the balance sheet as more important as success on the pitch - but that comment is actually like a spoof, like someone was trying to take the piss out of how a modern football hipster fan might sound. Like only the very top, top prize actually matters anymore. Tell that to the lower league teams who win the FA Vase or the Paint Trophy. The insanity of simply writing off all other trophies as irrelevant... I can only shake my head.

The game is about glory. Glory is standing on the steps at Wembley holding a trophy up to your screaming fans, not writing off every cup in the sport because only the league is good enough.

You might have the weakest leg to stand on if we'd spent the last 25 years winning a handful of FA Cups and league cups and maybe the Europa once, but we have won almost completely fuck all in that time - and now those trophies aren't good enough?

If we don't win a trophy in the next two seasons our record of winning a trophy every decade for 70 years - which only Manchester United can match in the whole football league - will be gone. That would be a travesty given the terrible quality of some past Spurs sides who at least managed the odd League Cup win.

Jesus wept, that post, absolute madness.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

But we don't even win the consolation prizes FFS! It would be every fans dream to have to "settle" for winning the FA Cup!

"Silverware shmilverware" is officially the maddest, most completely mental thing I think I've ever heard in relation to the game of football. People talk about how the game has changed, about how money has become the prime motivator and the source of all success, about how some clubs see success on the balance sheet as more important as success on the pitch - but that comment is actually like a spoof, like someone was trying to take the piss out of how a modern football hipster fan might sound. Like only the very top, top prize actually matters anymore. Tell that to the lower league teams who win the FA Vase or the Paint Trophy. The insanity of simply writing off all other trophies as irrelevant... I can only shake my head.

The game is about glory. Glory is standing on the steps at Wembley holding a trophy up to your screaming fans, not writing off every cup in the sport because only the league is good enough.

You might have the weakest leg to stand on if we'd spent the last 25 years winning a handful of FA Cups and league cups and maybe the Europa once, but we have won almost completely fuck all in that time - and now those trophies aren't good enough?

If we don't win a trophy in the next two seasons our record of winning a trophy every decade for 70 years - which only Manchester United can match in the whole football league - will be gone. That would be a travesty given the terrible quality of some past Spurs sides who at least managed the odd League Cup win.

Jesus wept, that post, absolute madness.

I should perhaps have known that someone, somewhere, would take "silverware shmillverware" seriously.

I said I'd love to win the FA cup.

But winning the FA Cup is not what it was. It has diminished in comparison with the League. So if we're within touching distance of either, I'd concentrate on the league.

You evidently disagree. Fine.

 

[bubble07]

This was posted about 20 hours ago so I assume someone has already posted on here but if they haven't it was an excellent read

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...g-pack-who-deserve-our-contempt-a3532951.html

 

[SpartanSpur]

It's not top 4 vs FA Cup though is it, it's title race vs prioritising cups. I'd rather be in the title race every year, legitimately being one of the best teams in the country than do what Utd or Liverpool did last two years and focus 100% on the Europa League because you've royally f%*$ed the league campaign up. Chelsea rested two key players for the cup semi, and we let them off the hook. Utd may well have not reached the FA Cup final if they were actually in the title race last season.

Now I'm desperate for a cup as a fan, it's been too long, but I think some of us are letting the 'what have you won though' jibes get to us a bit (they have me to an extent). Thing with that is, if we win the EFL/FA Cup next year, it'll just become 'when did you last win the title?', so you can't win anyway. They have to try and knock us down as they know we are doing well. And as the Gary Neville piece said above, we don't need silverware to validate the excellent progress of the last few seasons.

Now if we continue to compete at the very top in the next two seasons, then I agree we need to pick up some cups, but that should only be a byproduct of our ability (and improved squad) and a bit of luck* in the draws, rather than us trying to salvage a poor league campaign.

We can't hold the lack of trophies from 2008-2015 against this team, but next season is the time we need to really challenge, and I hope we do!!

*Look at Arsenal's recent FA Cup wins, they mainly come about from almost exclusively home draws early on and not much else to focus on come the crunch, and even then they only had to play Hull, Villa, Reading and I believe Everton at Wembley rather than the big boys. We had a decent run but came up against the top team in the land in the semi. Fair play to that lot for beating City this time out however.

 

[SpartanSpur]

But we don't even win the consolation prizes FFS! It would be every fans dream to have to "settle" for winning the FA Cup!

"Silverware shmilverware" is officially the maddest, most completely mental thing I think I've ever heard in relation to the game of football. People talk about how the game has changed, about how money has become the prime motivator and the source of all success, about how some clubs see success on the balance sheet as more important as success on the pitch - but that comment is actually like a spoof, like someone was trying to take the piss out of how a modern football hipster fan might sound. Like only the very top, top prize actually matters anymore. Tell that to the lower league teams who win the FA Vase or the Paint Trophy. The insanity of simply writing off all other trophies as irrelevant... I can only shake my head.

The game is about glory. Glory is standing on the steps at Wembley holding a trophy up to your screaming fans, not writing off every cup in the sport because only the league is good enough.

You might have the weakest leg to stand on if we'd spent the last 25 years winning a handful of FA Cups and league cups and maybe the Europa once, but we have won almost completely fuck all in that time - and now those trophies aren't good enough?

If we don't win a trophy in the next two seasons our record of winning a trophy every decade for 70 years - which only Manchester United can match in the whole football league - will be gone. That would be a travesty given the terrible quality of some past Spurs sides who at least managed the odd League Cup win.

Jesus wept, that post, absolute madness.

Whilst my above post does seem in contrast to what you said, and I stand by it, I do fully admire this stance and fully agree it would be great to see the lads lifting a pot in the air. I just want us to do it whilst also striving to be one of the best in the land, rather than having a nice cup run whilst treading water back in 4th-6th.

In fact next season may end up as one where the cups come in to focus more than ever, if we don't settle quickly at Wembley, so you may well get your wish.

 

[rossdapep]

I don't recall people saying we had a better season then Arsenal back in 2008 when we won the League Cup and they finished third with no trophy to show.