Jose Mourinho

fishhhandaricecake · Sep 14, 2020

NEVILLEB said:
He thinks it's the Managers who are the problem.

His ego is too big to imagine the problem is him.

All chronic problems start at the top of the pyramid.

Yea have to agree with that for sure, its bloody rinse and repeat and the manager is always the fall guy when Levy and the way he's set-up the football side of the club is massively the issue.

NEVILLEB · Sep 14, 2020

fishhhandaricecake said:
Yea have to agree with that for sure, its bloody rinse and repeat and the manager is always the fall guy when Levy and the way he's set-up the football side of the club is massively the issue.

He will always blame the Manager because the fans always fall for it.

fishhhandaricecake · Sep 14, 2020

NEVILLEB said:
This is why I said Levy doesn't understand football.

He just sees Mourinho's trophies and thinks he must be the man.

He doesn't understand the way Mourinho sets up his teams and has ignored the fact that Mourinho has always had world class players at his disposal and spent a lot of money, something Levy won't do.

So so true, he just sees Jose as a trophies guy but in terms of the squad we had/have and the way our club is Jose was a very poor fit for so many reasons. Look there's a very small chance he may drag us over the line kicking and screaming to win a Carabao cup but honestly playing like we are and with the issues in the squad we have I'm really not holding out much hope and while I do cling onto any small faint amount of hope there is whilst we are still in any cup competitions I/we have to put up watching this shower or rubbish football.

Its like i've said all along, when Jose is winning things are just about ok because the results are coming but the second there is a loss or a string of bad results and toothless performances like that the fans turn quicker than police officers chasing Harry Maguire in a Greek nightclub. But in all seriousness the playing style really is a huge issue as :
1) If you have such low amounts of posession and rely on trying to just have 2-3 big chances per game and have to take them then your chances of regularly winning matches are not good
2) compare us to say Bielsa at Leeds vs Liverpool, they were brave and played some incredible stuff, sure they lost but on another day they could've won if they didn't give away two penalties but moreso their fans will stay behind their team as they play gorgeous football and create a shedload of chances whereas when we lose its like the life is being sucked out of you for 90 minutes so it makes the aggression after the loss come out much more easily as there is just zero enjoyment from either the style of play or the results.

I still think he needs more time for sure and he's not going anywhere anyway but lets hope we don't go out the Europa league and Carabao cup in the next few weeks otherwise if we have that and some more poor results in the league the toxic feeling will be unbareable and only thing saving Jose and Levy will be covid and lack of fans in the ground.

King of Otters · Sep 14, 2020

kaz Hirai said:
Totally the Wrong appointment for this club and squad of players

Starting to feel that way, isn't it?

Yes it was one game, but yesterday was a massive red flag for me. To turn in a performance so flat, so laboured and letharic, against a team we consistently beat and finish above is hugely worrying.

I can see things unravelling pretty quickly if we have many more performances and results like that over the next month or two.

glacierSpurs · Sep 14, 2020

mill said:
Neville summed it up when he said there’s no combinations, just one pass and no one knowing what the the next pass was

Neville is an utmost joke. We played much worse crap under Poch at times but he had no such comments. The agenda he had always with Mourinho is just incredible and so unprofessional at times, especially coming from a national team coach commenting on players he managed on national level.

I have taken the time to screenshot 7 plays we had in the first half that totally proved this tool, and all those in here who thinks Mourinho plays so passively, only doing the counter and not pressing, so so wrong, when the team plays were all but turgid and flat.

The players absolutely knew the passage of play, and definitely not 'not knowing what the next pass was'. Somehow sometimes, it really is up to them if they wanna play well, which is what I am most disappointed with.

Admittedly, the 2nd half was one to forget, as Dele off meant the pressing was totally gone, hence surrendered all initiatives we had in the 1st half. And yet if everyone chose to look at the 2nd half and the final result without feeling encouraged by the 1st half, the 1st half of a season, where we were so promising to begin it under Mourinho, then I seriously don't know how terrible this season will be in for you guys supporting the team.

glacierSpurs · Sep 14, 2020

Shadydan · Sep 14, 2020

I'll never understand the Sissoko sub and then the position he put him in on the pitch.

JUSTINSIGNAL · Sep 14, 2020

kaz Hirai said:
Totally the Wrong appointment for this club and squad of players

I’ve said this from the beginning but I truly hope it works as I can’t face another season like the one that has just finished. I want to actually get to the point where I look forward to our fixtures again rather than having that ‘2000s era’ feeling that the result could go either way and ruin my weekend.

Bobbins · Sep 14, 2020

Wig said:
I'm not sure a change in ownership - which may have its own merits - is going to change the "ingrained loser attitude" in the playing squad. Jose is rightly shocked, but if there are certain players who can be identified as ones who stopped playing for Poch and haven't started again for Jose, then its these players that need to be replaced with ones with the requisite hunger.

When Poch first came in it took him a season to identify the senior players that needed to be moved on (Adebayor, Kaboul etc.) and replace them with the players he could rely on. I think we are in a similar phase again with Jose needing to make some brutal decisions if we are to improve.

The problem for me is that this attitude is now beginning to be revealed as merely symptomatic of the wider culture of the football club. And that culture is based on failure, on an internal acknowledgement that we will never win anything again under our current leadership.

The fans know, and players know, and eventually each manager comes to know - we will never make that final push. We will never do that final deal, sign that key player, take that extra risk, to actually enable us to win something.

Poch, with his incredible passion and leadership, very nearly upset that apple cart. He pushed a reasonably talented group of players to the brink of success by using pure motivation. By recruiting a squad which wanted to follow him, and cutting out the cancerous elements of the team, he dragged the entire club forwards to the verge of actually achieving something. He brought the fans with him because we could see what he and the players were doing. We could see how different this was to previous years.

And then he failed. He failed repeatedly and by small margins, but he failed. It became clearer over time that this failure could only be resolved by Poch getting the help he needed from the leadership at the club. That one key player. That squad refresh. That final piece of the puzzle he kept asking for.

He never got it. Now we can talk about how his targets were unrealistic, or his inflexibility over players held us back, but the fact is the guy was begging for those final pieces and the club didn’t give them to him. The best manager they’ve had in a generation and they allowed him to fall short.

By the end of the Poch reign the players were exhausted physically and mentally. They had fallen short every time and couldn’t push themselves forwards anymore. Eventually, the ingrained culture of failure at the club had dragged them all down and Poch had broken them.

They’re still broken. They’re mentally and physically shot. Players like Alli will never reach their previous heights because the fact is players like that spent three years playing well beyond their natural ability due to the power-boost they got from Poch.

Jose has seen this. He can’t believe how bad some of them are, how poorly motivated the squad is. He’s pretty powerless to do anything about it, short of selling 90% of the squad and starting from scratch.

I’ve come to the conclusion that nothing will change until the top leadership, and therefore the culture, of the club changes. No manager or set of players will ever win anything at this club again until the owners are gone.

NEVILLEB · Sep 14, 2020

I actually felt a bit sorry for Mourinho when he took the job because I couldn’t see it would work. A mistake on both sides.

punkisback · Sep 14, 2020

SUIYHA said:
Have tried to calm down in the morning - but quite frankly I'm finding it extremely difficult to be positive about the direction the club is going and our prospects for the near term future.

This is not about a single game. This appears to be a fundamental difference in both philosophy and what I perceive to be basic tactical competence between myself and the management at Spurs. You can bang on about Mourinho's track record of winning trophies - fair enough - but those trophies have not come at clubs like Tottenham. At no point has Mourinho won trophies anywhere without top class playmaking ability in the side - something we have lacked since Eriksen left. And whilst I know Lo Celso was not fit yesterday, the Alli for Sissoko substitution has got to rank as one of the ultimate tactical disasterclasses we've seen from Spurs managers. You can talk all you want about formations, aggression, high lines, motivation - but the reality is football is a fairly simple game, 90% of winning a match is getting the team with the better technical players to flourish and move the ball around well. This rule is true the vast majority of the time, and whenever managers like AVB, Ramos and now Mourinho try to get "clever" and break away from it all almost always ends in horrific style. So to bring on a man that has demonstrated nothing but a comprehensive lack of ability to pass or shoot, when already playing two midfielders that will not pass the ball forwards, was quite simply tactical suicide.

For sure we needed to upgrade at RB and DM, but if we'd signed James Rodriguez for the same price as we spent on either of our signings we'd have improved significantly more either of those two will improve us. Since selling Sigurdsson, I used to worry about a lack of cover for Eriksen, now we don't even have the first team player like this. And what alarms me is that other than a few tenuous links to Coutinho and Sabitzer we don't appear to even be looking to strengthen in this area.

Winks, Sissoko, Davies, Lucas and Dier, a few years ago all considered back-up players to more technically skilled players in the starting XI, have now all been promoted without actually getting any better themselves. Why? Because they "show a good attitude"? They "work hard"? For sure I'd question whether David Ginola or Dimitar Berbatov would flourish in the modern game, but I just can't get my head around having so few players in the squad with real technical skill. At clubs like Real Madrid that was a given - it's all well and good if the value you to your squad is by getting them to be a bit more aggressive and harder working - if your midfield options are Alonso, Modric, Ozil, Kaka and Khedeira who can all pass and move the ball regardless of who you pick - but in our case we appear to be turning into an inferior footballing side not only to most of our competitors from the top 6 but also the likes of Everton, Leicester and Wolves.

Maybe a rejuvinated Ndombele has genuinely been working behind the scenes and Lo Celso is about to embark upon a big second season and this will all blow over. But it's hard to see. And whilst I don't necessarily expect Spurs to be the best team in the land, given the disparity of resources from some of our competitors, I do expect us to at least be fun to watch. So if this is how Mourinho wants to set us up then the ONLY acceptable reason is if we achieve high value objectives such as winning the title or at least other cups - if not then he will rank at the very bottom alongside Gross, Francis and AVB - behind Sherwood and Pleat - amongst the worst managers I have seen at Spurs. Given the way we played yesterday, then unless we get a favourable draw and a fluke final result like Birmingham or Wigan did then that looks extremely unlikely.

I'll leave you with one final stat. In Redknapp's final season, despite the dramatic collapse, we still averaged 18.44 attempts on goal per match. Last season we were down to just 11.68 - less than the likes of Brighton and Villa. Yesterday, just nine, in a home game against a team that came 12th last season.

Completely agree, this is the most un spurs like team I've seen in years. No technique, and little work rate from a team of "work horses". It's like watching Pulis era stoke without the aggression. We're lucky there are no fans in the stadium as they would not put up with this level of football.

Ron Burgundy · Sep 14, 2020

NEVILLEB said:
I actually felt a bit sorry for Mourinho when he took the job because I couldn’t see it would work. A mistake on both sides.

Totally agree. Both parties will end up suffering. Wrong from the beginning. What a shambles

Mr Pink · Sep 14, 2020

Vinny_Sammways_left_peg said:
Again, I can see the point of view, but it's then down to the players to make the difference on the pitch. Not one player in the opening twenty of the second half stood up before or after them scoring. That can't all be down to the manager, because that exact sentiment was also being trotted out with the previous manager. It's becoming a recurring theme with these players.

Like I said, I can see your point of view and I agree with it, but we're almost back to that period under Sherwood where it seems the players are almost predetermining whether or not they have the chops for all that silverware they keep going on about.

Absolutely but the subs from Jose wernt good mate.

Romulus · Sep 14, 2020

I'll tell you what though. i won't put up with another season of us performing like that. he has to start to show he can improve the team. giving up possession to the likes of Everton and Southampton won't help that.

having said that though, you have to question if the players actually want to win because when I watch them they just look like comfortable bunch of players. how bad do you fucking want it? because our rivals do.

for Mourinho to use the words "lazy" to describe our efforts for the first game of the season is very worrying. I can understand "unlucky" or "a few bad decisions" but "lazy?"

floydiohead · Sep 14, 2020

QuasiModo80 said:
I honestly cant see what we are trying to do.

Yes - this is my problem as well. I just can't see it.

Archibald&Crooks · Sep 14, 2020

Bobbins said:
I’ve come to the conclusion that nothing will change until the top leadership, and therefore the culture, of the club changes. No manager or set of players will ever win anything at this club again until the owners are gone.

I've been saying this for several months now and received a succession of 'doh' and 'disagree' ratings

Deleted member 27995 · Sep 14, 2020

Mr Pink said:
Absolutely but the subs from Jose wernt good mate.

No, doesn't mean the 'world class' players that were on the pitch couldn't make a difference though. I haven't denied the Sissoko sub awkwardly changed our play in the second, but it never stopped the likes of Bale or Berbatov or VDV doing something to change the course of a match.

0-Tibsy-0 · Sep 14, 2020

NEVILLEB said:
I actually felt a bit sorry for Mourinho when he took the job because I couldn’t see it would work. A mistake on both sides.

His reputation was at its lowest ebb post Utd. Levy needed to make us look blockbuster for the USA market.

Jose Mourinho gets to star in his own documentary to reinstate his brand. Levy is start struck by him and thinks it will get him some viewers and make him look big time.

The more I see, the more I believe we are the first club to make a managerial decision with a *Edit: *Video streaming services* documentary as the main driving force.

ILS · Sep 14, 2020

0-Tibsy-0 said:
His reputation was at its lowest ebb post Utd. Levy needed to make us look blockbuster for the USA market.

Jose Mourinho gets to star in his own documentary to reinstate his brand. Levy is start struck by him and thinks it will get him some viewers and make him look big time.

The more I see, the more I believe we are the first club to make a managerial decision with a Netflix documentary as the main driving force.

Do we win the league on the Netflix one?

gerishep · Sep 14, 2020

glacierSpurs said:

You know we lost don't you.

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