The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - THE LAST DAY! 1st September 2014

dagraham · Sep 2, 2014

Everlasting Seconds said:
You hit the nail on it's expensive golden head, though. Because both those statements can't be true in absolute terms. Value is either absolute, or subjective. But not both. It goes without saying, the more money we have, the more are we willing to spend. And to suggest that the value we put on things is not related to the amount of cash we have is folly.

Yes I agree. I was specifically replying to Sloth's point though that asset's will have a true market value, but often be purchased at a premium based on the buyers circumstances. One of which may be how much they have to spend, but more often based on how much the buyer needs the asset. Such as a business acquiring premises or another company at a premium because of their strategic importance to that particular company.

In the case of MS, his true "fair value" may be say £17m, but he's worth more to us than say to Man Utd for example because he's our managers number 1 target and a player he's worked with before and trusts implicitly to play the way he wants our team to operate.

dovahkiin · Sep 2, 2014

BEN is saying that enic are trying to sell to americans as soon as the new stadium is confirmed [plans, they dont actually want to build it] and that they want out. twitter though so not sure if can be posted in here or if this is the right thread for it anyway

LexingtonSpurs · Sep 2, 2014

dovahkiin said:
BEN is saying that enic are trying to sell to americans as soon as the new stadium is confirmed and that they want out. twitter though so not sure if can be posted in here or if this is the right thread for it anyway

I hope that is not true - but I suppose it depends on the American group that wants to buy.

yido_number1 · Sep 2, 2014

dovahkiin said:
BEN is saying that enic are trying to sell to americans as soon as the new stadium is confirmed and that they want out. twitter though so not sure if can be posted in here or if this is the right thread for it anyway

I'm not surprised with the amount of abuse they are getting but it would be a sad day for the club.

Franchise60 · Sep 2, 2014

Ossie85 said:
I never said Poch out. I don't give a fuck about how many games have we played. It's got nothing to do with the transfer dealings
And if read my post carefully, you would understand it makes more sense than to blame Levy for not spending 27m on Morgan fucking schneiderlin

You are blaming the coach for our transfer window without anything even semi concrete to base it on. It's funny how its the "head coach's" fault on sept 1st but all summer it's the vaunted committee getting praise for dealings.

So you're blaming Poch for not having backup plans to Schneiderlin when we signed a cheaper version of Schneiderlin? That makes zero sense. And no, nothing makes less sense than blaming Poch for our dealings this summer. Nothing. At. All. Especially considering many of what people consider failings this summer are carbon copies of previous Poch-less windows.

I'm fine with blaming no one, everyone, being happy, whatever anyones opinions are. But if you single out the manager as the problem with this summer then you are either from a different planet or have an agenda.

SpartanSpur · Sep 2, 2014

I'll stop my rants now however. More a case of airing grievances and frustrations than getting depressed. Nice to see suggestions the club (via @JJetset) and the manager (via @TrickyVilla) are all positive and forward thinking. Have to get on board now and hope for the best.

Let's hope Poch does the business with what he's got. I'm cautiously optimistic it'll still be much better than last year, which I'll certainly take for now. Just wish the Sunderland game was coming along sooner!

SpartanSpur · Sep 2, 2014

Everlasting Seconds said:
You hit the nail on it's expensive golden head, though. Because both those statements can't be true in absolute terms. Value is either absolute, or subjective. But not both. It goes without saying, the more money we have, the more are we willing to spend. And to suggest that the value we put on things is not related to the amount of cash we have is folly.

Spot on, last summer a prime example

Everlasting Seconds · Sep 2, 2014

dagraham said:
Yes I agree. I was specifically replying to Sloth's point though that asset's will have a true market value, but often be purchased at a premium based on the buyers circumstances. One of which may be how much they have to spend, but more often based on how much the buyer needs the asset. Such as a business acquiring premises or another company at a premium because of their strategic importance to that particular company.

In the case of MS, his true "fair value" may be say £17m, but he's worth more to us than say to Man Utd for example because he's our managers number 1 target and a player he's worked with before and trusts implicitly to play the way he wants our team to operate.

That's the concept I struggle with though. Sloth is saying, there is a certain, but almost abstract "value", and then there is something someone is willing to pay. What someone is willing to pay IS the value. Period. But certainly you are right, various teams will have different ceilings for this or that player. Doesn't change the fact that the value, is set by what (a part of) the market would like to pay.

yido_number1 · Sep 2, 2014

LexingtonSpurs said:
I hope that is not true - but I suppose it depends on the American group that wants to buy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Hicks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_N._Gillett,_Jr.

Two reasons to be cautious!

TorontoYid · Sep 2, 2014

At the end of the day, we got some solid defenders which was a critical area for us and has been for some time. I am a little disappointed that we were not able to get a forward but no point panic buying and getting another flop.

Overall it was not a bad window and we made some good signings that will strengthen the team and hopefully in January we will address the forward position. We have talent though and Poch is the man to bring it out so lets see what he can do with the team.

CoopsieDeadpool · Sep 2, 2014

Gary Mabbutts Mask said:
Small update from JJ, his responses in red:

The original JJetset‏@jetsetyidProtected Tweets 7h
@dan_raven89 big improvement on where we were,now we build a team from a committed squad & coaching team.We won't & can't spend silly money!

@jetsetyid@dan_raven89 I still think if he does well levy will back him with jrod mm and ms in jan window or next summer maybe am I right?

The original JJetset‏@jetsetyidProtected Tweets
@steve_singh420 @dan_raven89 I hope so

On Welbeck:
paddyj1‏@paddyj24h
@jetsetyid what happened with Wellbeck mate? Did we not want the perm deal?

The original JJetset‏@jetsetyidProtected Tweets
@paddyj2 not really he wanted Arsenal with big wages

Responses in fucking RED ??

.. Be gone with you!! :whistle:

trnk · Sep 2, 2014

I just realized the last time our net spend was positive was in 2010.

THFCSPURS19 · Sep 2, 2014

Gary Mabbutts Mask said:
Small update from JJ, his responses in red:

The original JJetset‏@jetsetyidProtected Tweets 7h
@dan_raven89 big improvement on where we were,now we build a team from a committed squad & coaching team.We won't & can't spend silly money!

@jetsetyid@dan_raven89 I still think if he does well levy will back him with jrod mm and ms in jan window or next summer maybe am I right?

The original JJetset‏@jetsetyidProtected Tweets
@steve_singh420 @dan_raven89 I hope so

On Welbeck:
paddyj1‏@paddyj24h
@jetsetyid what happened with Wellbeck mate? Did we not want the perm deal?

The original JJetset‏@jetsetyidProtected Tweets
@paddyj2 not really he wanted Arsenal with big wages

Oh look it's dantheyid again

WexfordTownSpur · Sep 2, 2014

AAspur said:
Exactly right...how can u judge a new manager when he doesnt get the player he requests ?? it would be interesting to see how much DL wastes each year on sacked managers/backroom staff severance packages and compare it to the difference between the asking price of a player requested by the sacked manager and how much we offered....
this nickel and dime approach is putting us in a constant state of flux , where we bring a new manager in , fail to buy the players he requests ( even when said players are obtainable and keen to come ) , buy cheaper/lesser alternatives, sack manager , bring in a new one who wants to change the squad and bring his own players in and the so it goes on...all this whilst charging the second highest season ticket prices in the League..

Exactly - I am sure Liverpool and Utd didn't think Lallana and Luke Shaw were worth 28mil, but the difference, as we see time and time again with our competitors is they support the managers and get the players they wanted - We don't, we don't do the deals and say, hey this guy is kind of the same player for a 3rd of the price, work with him! Sounds a little like the comparison of your dad buying you a VW or a SEAT, I know what dad I want

SpartanSpur · Sep 2, 2014

dovahkiin said:
BEN is saying that enic are trying to sell to americans as soon as the new stadium is confirmed [plans, they dont actually want to build it] and that they want out. twitter though so not sure if can be posted in here or if this is the right thread for it anyway

And despite bemoaning our board all day this still puts the fear of god into me. Levy and Co frustrate the life out of me when it comes to transfers (where I maintain that some small improvement could be made) I know they're very good for the club on the whole.

I assume it'd be AEG? We'd have to pray they would be more like Henry than the Glazers I guess, risky business.

WexfordTownSpur · Sep 2, 2014

yido_number1 said:
We're splitting hairs and in the wrong thread but both Agger and toure made 20 league appearances. If that suits your agenda then stick to your story. Price doesnt make a player any better, in this case Fazio's release clause was less than MM's and we exercised it. Who's to say who will suit are side better I haven't watched either of them play so I'm not in a position to judge.

Either way Poch has a player he chose and we move forwards.

But did he?

yiddodiddodo · Sep 2, 2014

Im sure Seville didnt rate Fazio as an 8 million player either or what ever it was we paid had they got the chance to renew his contract the release clause would of been 20Mill+ no doubt

nedley · Sep 2, 2014

Did we ever find out from JJ and others who the other forward player was? (Welbeck obviously being one)

loz123 · Sep 2, 2014

Time to take a deep breath and move forwards. Squad definitely strengthened overall. Let's see what happens in the Jan window and let Poch continue to improve us tactically and players individually. It will take more than one window to get us back on track and to get squad where it needs to be. Lets keep the faith. Thanks to all the ITK'S and mods and all posters on SC for making the rollercoaster ride so enjoyable
£25 just donated
COYS

WexfordTownSpur · Sep 2, 2014

St José Dominguez said:
I've seen so many people use the recycled we've gone from expensive player X to cheap option Y intertwined with what does Baldini actually do. Well he's signed a player in Stambouli for less than a quarter of price of Schneiderlin who I believe will turn out to be just as good if not better and who's a title winner. Fazio and Mussachio I can't really comment much on as not seen a great deal but same could be said and I did see him in Europa league final which his team won and I thought he was fantastic in that game.
It feels sometimes that rather than the club focusing on scouting and bringing in players for specific positions there's an obsession with spending more money on a specific player. We could have solved LB, CB, CM as well as back up RB and GK this summer but sometimes I think people would've been more happy if we'd forgotten half that and bought a 30m ST which would've left massive gaps at back. Besides fact we bought a big money ST last year, someone I pretty happy that we've given another chance to.

"who I believe will turn out to be just as good if not better" If this were the case why didn't we go after him in the first place, what are our scouts, Manager and Baldini playing at bidding for MS - I think probably because they know something you don't.

And I am glad we filled those "massive gaps at the back" as shown against Liverpool last week. All working to plan.

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