The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - THE LAST DAY! 1st September 2014

[mrlilywhite]

BEN is saying that enic are trying to sell to americans as soon as the new stadium is confirmed [plans, they dont actually want to build it] and that they want out. twitter though so not sure if can be posted in here or if this is the right thread for it anyway

Thanks mate!! I do have doubts that they would sell now. The package for them to sell would surely be with stadium all done, so they could maximise profit, would it not? I know nowt about this though. I assume Ben is itk worthy? What is his track record?

 

[prawnsandwich]

BEN is saying that Enic are trying to sell to Americans as soon as the new stadium is confirmed [Plans, they don't actually want to build it] and that they want out. Twitter though so not sure if can be posted in here or if this is the right thread for it anyway

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Lewis_(British_businessman)

JL is 77 years old. Not sure of his health but he will be in his eighties before the new stadium is completed.

 

[dovahkiin]

Thanks mate!! I do have doubts that they would sell now. The package for them to sell would surely be with stadium all done, so they could maximise profit, would it not? I know nowt about this though. I assume Ben is itk worthy? What is his track record?

he used to be one of the best, but since harry left(or was it even before that?) less so, also became very negative about all things spurs since his favourites (harry/crouch etc) left

 

[sloth]

OK, yes. But that is about your own wallet. However, if someone you like, or someone you visit at their home, spend a few millions more than they hoped on a painting, with their own money, and you get to be in the presence of this (expensive) acquisition, do you feel the need to be upset because of the price tag?

Going one step further; if you visit one of the greatest galleries in the world. Maybe you have to pay to enter. Say, Uffizi in Florence, or National Gallery in London (albeit free) OK? Do you even care what the paintings cost? Or about the price of a potential new "signing"?

Ultimately, you visit Louvre, OK? And you must pay to enter. Goes without saying. Louvre boasts a fine collection. Masterpiece after masterpiece. You fail to notice the paintings of Caravaggio all together. Why? Because what attracts your attention, is their star signing. Their absolute best. In fact, you notice, all of you are there, to marvel at this one very, very expensive and famous piece. You paid to get in, and you expected to see only the best for your entrance ticket.

The difference is I'm not a stakeholder in that gallery. If I was 'a friend of...' for example, then I would care about how limited resources were spent to optimise the gallery's future.

That's the concept I struggle with though. Sloth is saying, there is a certain, but almost abstract "value", and then there is something someone is willing to pay. What someone is willing to pay IS the value. Period. But certainly you are right, various teams will have different ceilings for this or that player. Doesn't change the fact that the value, is set by what (a part of) the market would like to pay.

Bookmakers will sell you a toss of the coin as an odds on prospect and people pay it. The true value is 1:1 though even if some mugs are prepared to pay more.

 

[Locotoro]

he used to be one of the best, but since harry left(or was it even before that?) less so, also became very negative about all things spurs since his favourites (harry/crouch etc) left

It was because crouch was the only one who could see him sat in his tree

 

[Jospur]

http://www.epfl-europeanleagues.com/leagues_transfer_window.htm

Thanks very much. I had hopes...

 

[chinaman]

Can we still sign someone who's not affiliated to any club? Say we take a liking to some street-side ball juggler and decide to sign him right away.

 

[sloth]

Yes value is absolute and has no bearing on how much cash you have, but as you say, value is subjective. What something is worth to somebody or a business is not always an indicator of true fair value.

Are you suggesting that a business never buys an asset at above market value?

I'm not talking about 'market value' per se, I'm talking about value to our club. Whatever method Levy uses to calculate it (and we can certainly argue over whether he's gets it right), once he has worked it out he shouldn't pay more than it.

Within that, consideration can easily be given to factors such as Poch having identified him as a key target, and in fact I'd be shocked if it didn't.

My final point is that I'd very much hope these decisions on how far out to push the boat can be reached by consensus, meaning Poch is also deciding not to pay more than they think he's worth. According to Trix and JJ, our two most reliable ITK, that certainly seems to be the case.

 

[strader]

Exactly - I am sure Liverpool and Utd didn't think Lallana and Luke Shaw were worth 28mil, but the difference, as we see time and time again with our competitors is they support the managers and get the players they wanted - We don't, we don't do the deals and say, hey this guy is kind of the same player for a 3rd of the price, work with him! Sounds a little like the comparison of your dad buying you a VW or a SEAT, I know what dad I want

So you know how many other players united and Liverpool went for and did not get as well. RIGHT!!
Also you want to compare our financial status with Liverpool and united?
Is just like crystal palace fans having a go at the board for not getting siggy however spurs bought player X,y and Z.
*Shakes head* so you believe every itk that was mentioned; how do you know which players we were actually interested in.
How do you know the players we got were not agreed by Poch; it’s always easy to see the glass half full "Yes the board do not back/support the manager"

What if we cannot afford the player the manager wants..... Don’t you think every club wants the best players out there, unfortunate we are not in the financial position to compete with the likes of united, Chelsea, city, Liverpool, arsenal ( why am i bothering to mention that as i guess you know this already) *shakes head again*

 

[sloth]

And despite bemoaning our board all day this still puts the fear of god into me. Levy and Co frustrate the life out of me when it comes to transfers (where I maintain that some small improvement could be made) I know they're very good for the club on the whole.

I assume it'd be AEG? We'd have to pray they would be more like Henry than the Glazers I guess, risky business.

Or the deal's structured so that Levy maintains a stake in the new business and stays on as chief exec.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

The difference is I'm not a stakeholder in that gallery. If I was 'a friend of...' for example, then I would care about how limited resources were spent to optimise the gallery's future.



Bookmakers will sell you a toss of the coin as an odds on prospect and people pay it. The true value is 1:1 though even if some mugs are prepared to pay more.

Not really sure you are quite aiding your cause
I sincerely hope that running a football club is not exactly like placing a bet on a coin toss. All though on some days, I do wonder.

 

[JamieSpursCommunityUser]

have you heard of tongue in cheek?

Yes. Pardon my being harsh, these Deadline Day hangovers are getting harder to take each year.

 

[sloth]

Not really sure you are quite aiding your cause
I sincerely hope that running a football club is not exactly like placing a bet on a coin toss. All though on some days, I do wonder.

To save myself a sarky comment from @Bus-Conductor I won't say what I do for a living, but suffice to say if you're going to gamble knowing the true value of a bet is crucial to winning over the long term.

 

[DaSpurs]

[

Probably my last bit of info for this window. The new guys looked great in training. Fazio strong as a Ox. Stambouli super sharp and confident. Sorry that's literally all I've been told.

Thanks for the info.

So excited to see Stambouli play for us. Love the description of "super sharp and confident," as those are IMO elements highly missing in our central midfield. Too lethargic, languid, slow, and lacking in belief to drive forward. Could use a touch of arrogant crispness coupled with sharpness to kickstart some positive change.

 

[Snarfalicious]

Probably my last bit of info for this window. The new guys looked great in training. Fazio strong as a Ox. Stambouli super sharp and confident. Sorry that's literally all I've been told.

That's fantastic news.

 

[yiddopaul]

I don't get this "we've signed a 2nd choice player" therefore, he is going to be inferior to said first choice. Was listening to the Spurs show the other day, and they were talking about this, and it was mentioned that Jimmy Greaves was never our "1st choice", the player we wanted (forgot who it was), we didn't get. We all know how that worked out! I'm sure there are many more players that have gone on to become great players for us, that were a) not 1st choice and b) didn't cost an arm and a leg.
Even if we hadn't made any changes this summer, we would still be better off now, with a proper coach, who knows what he's doing. I'm quietly confident that Poch will get us playing great football, that will only need to be tweeked later on.

 

[topper]

I don't get this "we've signed a 2nd choice player" therefore, he is going to be inferior to said first choice. Was listening to the Spurs show the other day, and they were talking about this, and it was mentioned that Jimmy Greaves was never our "1st choice", the player we wanted (forgot who it was), we didn't get. We all know how that worked out! I'm sure there are many more players that have gone on to become great players for us, that were a) not 1st choice and b) didn't cost an arm and a leg.
Even if we hadn't made any changes this summer, we would still be better off now, with a proper coach, who knows what he's doing. I'm quietly confident that Poch will get us playing great football, that will only need to be tweeked later on.

Unless it was Pele or Di Stefano I'm not sure who was better than Greavsie at the time!

 

[Gary Mabbutts Mask]

Responses in fucking RED ?? .. Be gone with you!!

Fixed!

 

[SpartanSpur]

Caught up on this thread since last viewing on Monday evening, and I'm absolutely loving your work, @SpartanSpur - don't think I've ever given so many positive ratings to one poster in such a short time. Have agreed with every word you've posted in this thread since last night, top quality debating, sir.

Cheers mate. @sloth raises some very strong arguments and I agree with a lot of what he says, but I feel strongly in my right to air my criticisms and frustrations with the board's transfer activity in recent years.

Interestingly THST announced today they are going to ask the board for more transparency as a way of giving aggrieved fans more of an idea of what is truly going on. Would be great if it could happen (never gonna though) as we are all just speculating really, differing opinions come from our varying levels of faith in the board on certain matters...

 

[SpartanSpur]

Or the deal's structured so that Levy maintains a stake in the new business and stays on as chief exec.

Despite all the stick I've given him on here I'd still be all for that. I do think he cares about spurs and would actually feel much more comfortable with him overseeing a takeover.

I don't think he'd be afraid to spend once the stadium is sorted, certainly at a better rate than the goons have at least.

If I'm honest I actually think levy would have spent more money yesterday if Poch didn't want a smaller squad and would have just taken anyone. Last jan seemed like Sherwood wanted to prove a point too.

I think it's the stubbornness on valuation thing that was the sticking point this summer.