Poll: Time for Poch or Time up for Poch? How Much More Time Should He Get?

[StartingPrice]

I've been revisiting some threads from the end of last season/Pochettino's appointment. It seemed that the general concensus was that we need to stop the chopping and changing of manager/head coach. That the new man needed to be given time (and backing, of course). And especially after Pochettino was appointed, even those opposed to it felt that he now had to be given time. Yup, even the Broken Clock was chiming normal service. It was generally accepted that this might encompass some poor results/performances - especially at the start of his reign.

So, how bad is it? A storm in a tea-cup (okay, washing machine)? Or full-blown disaster zone? How much more time would you, personally, like to see him get?

 

[E17yid]

I can't see us being in a relegation battle. End of the season and assess from there.

 

[yojambo]

There's no option for 3 more years?

 

[Mr Pink]

Providing there's no serious threat of relegation, he should get a minimum of two seasons IMO. Its going to take that to clear some of the decks in terms of how we're set up and some playing staff who need to be weeded out.

He's getting a vote of confidence now and I fully expect Levy to see this appointment through. He's going to have to back him and the move today about bringing in the scout Poch worked with well at Southampton is an acknowledgement that the current structure isn't right and our transfer/recruitment strategies need addressing.

Personally I see it as an acceptance that things, internally, need to change and its pointless to keep blaming the manager.

 

[@Bobby__Lucky]

If we don't pick up points and are close to the relegation zone come Christmas, then I see no other option. Tim came in and was getting points, if poch can't do the same with the same players and a few more, what does that tell you ?

 

[NEVILLEB]

If Poch goes then Levy has to step down.

 

[fridgemagnet]

Look how many managers we've had and look how many recurring issues there are with every single manager which the new manager then takes on etc etc etc.

The problem isn't the manager (i will concede i'd rather he didn't keep tinkering withe defence)
The problem is buried deep within the roots of the club plus player power trying to force personnel changes.
The problem is too much youth, not enough leaders too many shirkers.
The problem is DOF doesn't work at this club.
The problem is cancerous players.

Also i can't be the only one who has David Ginolas words ringing alarm bells "The problem with French speaking players is they like to talk, especially when things aren't going well" we've got a fair few haven't we?

Poor leadership on pitch, poor leadership off it, Levy is a fantastic chairman but he should have nothing to do with player recruitment, either you trust the man you hired as manager or you don't.

A new stadium is a must as White Hart Lane has become toxic and extremely negative.

The final problem is us, as fans we may be just that, fans; but as it sits the last season or so are we supporters? I don't think we are but that's my onion. Our expectations are way to high also we need to buy into the "philosophy" if a player initiates a high press we need to up our support show the players we buy into it, if we do so the players will believe what they're doing is worthwhile.

Fans, journo's and pundits can point to Redknapp but it's not comparing eggs with eggs player wise.

 

[StartingPrice]

There's no option for 3 more years?

Fair point - I was thinking in terms that there has to be rough before the smooth and wanted to know how long folk would be prepared to wait to see an improvement (if they would wait at all). Thinking that surely the rough would be over by the end of next season and if we weren't ready to roll under Poch by then we never would be, I didn't consider that anyone would be prepared to endure until the end of his contract. But fair enough. If I could edit the options I would.

Do you really think it will take 3 years for him to get things ship-shape and that that will show enough for him to earn another contract? Isn't there a danger that he might get it ship-shape but, like an ice-berg, it would mostly be beneath the surface and you/fansLevy would fail to see the improvements and want him gone?

 

[Nerine]

Thing is, I'm not even sure threads like this help our cause in any way shape or form.
We know journos look at the forums.

Next it will be "Seething Spurs Supporters Seek Speedy Solution to Sustain Standing So Seek to Sack Seven-Millionth Manager in Six Seasons, Pochettino"

Then it'll just create more and more unrest and negativity. Then there'll be a trades unionalist style picket outside teh Lane with white boards and dustbins full of fire. And a load of SC members wandering around aimlessly, smashed off their tits from mainlining crack and meth to ease the pain of a transition season.

So similar to when Geordies weren't happy with Mike Ashley....



So yeah, nothing personal. I just find this thread to be a little distasteful would be the overbearing focal point of this post...

 

[StartingPrice]

Thing is, I'm not even sure threads like this help our cause in any way shape or form.
We know journos look at the forums.

Next it will be "Seething Spurs Supporters Seek Speedy Solution to Sustain Standing So Seek to Sack Seven-Millionth Manager in Six Seasons, Pochettino"

Then it'll just create more and more unrest and negativity. Then there'll be a trades unionalist style picket outside teh Lane with white boards and dustbins full of fire. And a load of SC members wandering around aimlessly, smashed off their tits from mainlining crack and meth to ease the pain of a transition season.

So similar to when Geordies weren't happy with Mike Ashley....



So yeah, nothing personal. I just find this thread to be a little distasteful would be the overbearing focal point of this post...

No offence taken, and none meant when I say I find your post a little strange. I'm not calling for Pochettino to be sacked - for what it's worth, my vote was that he gets until the end of next season at least to show what he can do, barring real disaster.

I really was just genuinely trying to gauge feeling on this, seen as there has been so much visible anger since the Stoke debacle. there are plenty of far more incendiary threads than this for you to react like that to TBH.

interestingly enough, I had no absolute expectations from the results, I did genuinely want to know, but so far the majority seems to be, rather sensibly (as I feel and as I would hope) that he needs and should be given time. In other words, short-shrift for the jounros, etc., you fear would be feeding off it like a vulture at Prometheus's liver. Perhaps your feeling of distaste is the culmination of seeing several rageful threads and mistakenly believing this was another...?

 

[ultimateloner]

I'm not against manager changes but even I think he should get longer than xmas.
I believe our recent decline is a blip; a mental one that a manager can address.
I also don't believe that a manager change would amount to much.

An example could be Man Utd. LVG looks like he has steadied the ship abit.

Besides, we are still within top 4 finish distance.

 

[StartingPrice]

Providing there's no serious threat of relegation, he should get a minimum of two seasons IMO. Its going to take that to clear some of the decks in terms of how we're set up and some playing staff who need to be weeded out.

He's getting a vote of confidence now and I fully expect Levy to see this appointment through. He's going to have to back him and the move today about bringing in the scout Poch worked with well at Southampton is an acknowledgement that the current structure isn't right and our transfer/recruitment strategies need addressing.

Personally I see it as an acceptance that things, internally, need to change and its pointless to keep blaming the manager.

I agree.

Little bit unsure of the Southampton guy (if he comes - there's a big difference between us allegedly wanting him and him wanting to join/Southampton letting him go). Baldini is, supposedly, a deal finisher and not a scout. Only last summer Broomfield, who is credited with being a great talent finder, returned. If he isn't replacing Baldini, and what is supposedly missing in our structure is scouts and not a head-scout, I don't see why we would replace Broomfield, who has only just returned, for a failing (not have sufficient/sufficient quality), scouts under him, that isn't necessarily his. But would the Saints guy come in to work along Broomfield and if he did would there be a danger of too many Chiefs not enough Indians?

 

[StartingPrice]

If we don't pick up points and are close to the relegation zone come Christmas, then I see no other option. Tim came in and was getting points, if poch can't do the same with the same players and a few more, what does that tell you ?

I don't know if I would agree that he has to go if we are close to the relegation zone - that would depend on a number of factors, not least of which would be how wide or narrow the table is - if there's a huge gap between top four places and relegation spots maybe. but right now a few good results could should any number of teams up the table and a few poor ones can drop them right down.

I do accept your point about InterTim, however - though, funnily enough, I think that shows that the players are the problem and not Pochettino. As I've just said in another thread, for me, the most disappointing thing about Sunday was that, even with some disappointing results, we are so close to the top four spots (points wise), and of our main serious rivals for those spots, Liverpool had just had a dire loss at home and the Goons had a tough away fixture (that they would go on to lose). That shower shouldn't have needed any motivation from Poch - they should have been so up for it that they were all over Stoke like a rash. And that should have been irrelevant of whether Poch is trying to coach a high-tempo/high pressing game - so GTFO with not being sure what Poch wants.

But, also stated in the same thread, Slunksoma has suggested that maybe this first half season is part of Poch's weeding process - as I put it, maybe he is shoving them in the headlights and seeing who blinks. So my opinion would still be that unless we are in serious danger of nosediving we should give him time to do his job - a whole culture that has built up within our clubs needs to be cleaned out IMHO.

 

[mattie g]

Through next season. Enough of the chopping and changing!

 

[StartingPrice]

It's a while ago, now, that I said, when someone was complaining about Levy sacking managers too quickly that his problem isn't sacking managers too quickly, it is appointing the wrong ones in the first place. So when he appointed Pochettino, I stated my opinion (for what it's worth) that if this one is a an unmitigated disaster too then Levy really does have to consider that he is just sheeeeite at it, and either go or, at a minimum, get away from any decisions that require an informed opinion on football.

 

[XSuicideBunnyX]

It's a while ago, now, that I said, when someone was complaining about Levy sacking managers too quickly that his problem isn't sacking managers too quickly, it is appointing the wrong ones in the first place. So when he appointed Pochettino, I stated my opinion (for what it's worth) that if this one is a an unmitigated disaster too then Levy really does have to consider that he is just sheeeeite at it, and either go or, at a minimum, get away from any decisions that require an informed opinion on football.

I'd disagree slightly with you on that point, at least recently. I'm not very informed of the situation at the time, but (going back as far as I can when I started properly supporting) wasn't Juande Ramos quite a coup for Spurs? On paper the correct individual, but in practice, not very useful. Status: Picked wrong manager.
Redknapp, even just on results, was a great choice as manager. I believe we sacked him at the right time - we weren't going anywhere fast, and our squad was getting too good for Harry's tictacs to keep destroying our players. Status: Good pick. Sacked well.
AVB was interesting, and very unfortunate as our coach. Actually, I think had we (the fans), Levy and the media not destroyed AVB as a person and a manager, I honestly think he would have gone on to do well with us. We built upon a stable defence and it was just our offence (with unfortunate Bobby at the helm) that was lacking, and you only have to look at what Chelsea have achieved recently to see what building upon the defence (and being jammy as ****) gets you. Status: Good pick. Sacked too early.
No-one really liked Sherwood. He didn't like a central midfield. But it got results. I think Sherwood displayed some natural talent (even maybe now in hindsight) at managing - I mean, for the position he was thrust into, we did well, and people appreciated the way we played more. I think it was always going to be a 6 month job from Tim. I really believe he might have panned out well for us in the long run. Status: Bad pick. Sacked too early.
Note that the statuses are just my opinion, so all I've done is bang mine against yours - I don't expect you to be convinced, but it's another viewpoint (validity irrelevant) for you to mull over.

However, that is all in the past, and now we focus on Pochettino. We've basically been scouting managers since AVB was sacked, and throughout Tim's reign, so I better damn hope Levy spent half a year making sure his homework was done good and proper this time. I think that our current form is our rock bottom - the actual level of talent within the squad is simply too great for us to sink any lower. Remember, the Spurs rollercoaster ride is up and down! I'm not sure how much of a fallacy this is, but if Tim got this squad to beat the wee teams, I think almost any reasonable manager should be able to eventually. If we do worse or only slightly better than Southampton last season, I think question marks need to be raised, but in general Poch definitely needs to be able to see out his contract as long as we are seeing progression and not regression. If we pull it together soon, even 3rd might not be out of our reach. Assuming Southampton, Swansea and West Ham fall off due to injuries/lack of depth/"they've never been in this situation before so they'll Spurs it up", we're only 3 points behind our furthest rival for CL places, and 4 points off 4th place. Man, we're real lucky everyone else is floundering this year. Gives us a chance to sort ourselves out.

 

[StartingPrice]

I'd disagree slightly with you on that point, at least recently. I'm not very informed of the situation at the time, but (going back as far as I can when I started properly supporting) wasn't Juande Ramos quite a coup for Spurs? On paper the correct individual, but in practice, not very useful. Status: Picked wrong manager.
Redknapp, even just on results, was a great choice as manager. I believe we sacked him at the right time - we weren't going anywhere fast, and our squad was getting too good for Harry's tictacs to keep destroying our players. Status: Good pick. Sacked well.
AVB was interesting, and very unfortunate as our coach. Actually, I think had we (the fans), Levy and the media not destroyed AVB as a person and a manager, I honestly think he would have gone on to do well with us. We built upon a stable defence and it was just our offence (with unfortunate Bobby at the helm) that was lacking, and you only have to look at what Chelsea have achieved recently to see what building upon the defence (and being jammy as ****) gets you. Status: Good pick. Sacked too early.
No-one really liked Sherwood. He didn't like a central midfield. But it got results. I think Sherwood displayed some natural talent (even maybe now in hindsight) at managing - I mean, for the position he was thrust into, we did well, and people appreciated the way we played more. I think it was always going to be a 6 month job from Tim. I really believe he might have panned out well for us in the long run. Status: Bad pick. Sacked too early.
Note that the statuses are just my opinion, so all I've done is bang mine against yours - I don't expect you to be convinced, but it's another viewpoint (validity irrelevant) for you to mull over.

However, that is all in the past, and now we focus on Pochettino. We've basically been scouting managers since AVB was sacked, and throughout Tim's reign, so I better damn hope Levy spent half a year making sure his homework was done good and proper this time. I think that our current form is our rock bottom - the actual level of talent within the squad is simply too great for us to sink any lower. Remember, the Spurs rollercoaster ride is up and down! I'm not sure how much of a fallacy this is, but if Tim got this squad to beat the wee teams, I think almost any reasonable manager should be able to eventually. If we do worse or only slightly better than Southampton last season, I think question marks need to be raised, but in general Poch definitely needs to be able to see out his contract as long as we are seeing progression and not regression. If we pull it together soon, even 3rd might not be out of our reach. Assuming Southampton, Swansea and West Ham fall off due to injuries/lack of depth/"they've never been in this situation before so they'll Spurs it up", we're only 3 points behind our furthest rival for CL places, and 4 points off 4th place. Man, we're real lucky everyone else is floundering this year. Gives us a chance to sort ourselves out.

I agree with you...but we are just Joe-punters. Levy isn't. This is the most important appointment he could possibly make and, for whatever reason, and no matter how enticing any of them looked at the time of appointment, they aren't working out. He was also responsible for appointing Damien Comolli, and when he was dismissed there was a lot of angry focus on him, and not much on the fact that Levy either gave him too wide a remit and too many powers, or allowed him to take the same. In any other industry, the person who appointed so many high level personnel would be held responsible for their overall performance - not one of them, that could just be rogue, but overall. I'm not anti-Levy and I'm certainly not anti-Pochettino*, but eventually it one of these appointments has to properly stick or Levy has to accept that maybe someone else would be better at making them IMHO. It's all theoretical because if he sacks Pochettino tomorrow and rides out any protests what can we do? He part owns the club! But I am just stating that personally, no matter how much I will defend him for other aspects of his tenure, and point out that although we may not have had the success of the oil-mafioso clubs, we have had steady progress and punching above out weight in the league, on this one aspect, no matter how much sense they may make to us at the time, he bears the ultimate responsibility - and when compared to what he has done for the finances, the youth set-up, the infrastructure, etc., they have, ultimately, failed.

*Just to make it clear, I constructed the poll and OP objectively - my opinion, for what it is worth, is in my vote on the poll, and is worth just exactly the same as anyone else who votes - and that is that Poch should be given until the end of next season at least.

 

[TwanYid]

He should get the fuck out of our club because he is a clueless, lightweight unproven shit manager who has fucked up practically every decision he's made thus far and who can't manage to coherently speak the language of a country he's lived in for three years.

He's a fucking joke, and the guy who hired him is an even bigger clown.

Our club is an embarrassment.

 

[ClintEastwould]

End of this season to reevaluate. I get that some of our players are not good enough for where we want to be or that they may be talented but lack a strong mentality or work ethic but poch has to hold up his end of the bargain. He has made a lot of decisions that are only making his own job harder. Starting XIs, tactics, subs etc have all been questionable as are the captaincy selections seemingly making kaboul and Ade among others undroppable despite their form. The very basics of match to match managing seem to be lacking from pochetinno. I am sure he is a great training ground coach and he gets them working hard but it needs to translate on the pitch. My hope is that much like the rest of us he is utterly flummoxed on finding a best XI. By the end of the season he should at least be showing signs of improvement on finding one. I don't believe in time for times sake and I think if he is the right coach for us he should be able to show significant signs of managerial prowess and ability to take us ahead by the end of the season, regardless of our playing squad.

 

[tototoner]

Barring relegation at least until June 2017