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Winter Transfer Window Scouting Thread 23/24

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Ghost Hardware

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FWIW O’Keefe has just said Illing junior is homegrown.
Plus, as has been mentioned, he’s a Base client. I’d imagine this is one that’s highly likely to happen considering his contract, Juve’s finances and the lack of game time he’s been getting.

Just a question of which position we have in mind for him.
 

sage

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May 29, 2019
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An insightful reply I caught on Reddit from a Juve supporter:

He's a great talent, albeit with poor decision making at times, but he simply has no role to play here at the moment, he's an offensive winger in a team that plays a defensive 352 and he's too much of a liability defensively to be considered over our existing options. In a proper system he does everything you want a winger to do, he's great technically and more than anything he actually shows confidence in taking men on. None of that "stare at the defender for 30 seconds before turning back and passing the ball to the CMs" bullshit we're used to here.

This year after almost getting himself sent off conceding a penalty against Bologna and playing a bad half against Sassuolo he's been sent to Allegri's gulag and has played 24 minutes since September. (Allegri has this thing where if you make a serious mistake in a match he comforts you by having you sit on the bench for the next 2/3 months, e.g. Miretti conceded a stupid penalty against Benfica in September of last season and subsequently went from starting to basically never playing more than half an hour in the entire first half of the season)

You can't keep a player who wants (and to a good extent deserves) to play if that's the time he's given in the first team, and it makes no sense for us to hold on to a depreciating asset. A loan would be much better, as Soulé has shown, but we'll also take easy capital gains on players who are not in the team's plans. Also just a point on the rumored price: about 18m euros for a guy with 400 first team minutes is a fair to insane price in every league bar the Premier League. Naturally it would be instantly rejected for people like Soulé or Yildiz, but if the team's open to selling it's a pretty fair deal.
 

Scot-Spur

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May 20, 2012
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Plus, as has been mentioned, he’s a Base client. I’d imagine this is one that’s highly likely to happen considering his contract, Juve’s finances and the lack of game time he’s been getting.

Just a question of which position we have in mind for him.
From the albeit limited clips I have seen, he should be a LB he is similar in style to Udogie. Powerful and decent dribbler also helped the fact he’s played CM a few times
 

Ghost Hardware

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If he's a liability defensively then maybe not the left back we are looking for?
I mean he’s not a LB so if we wanted to play him there he’d need work. It’s just a hypothetical at this point. Porro was also a defensive liability when we got him. I just think from watching him on a few occasions last season he has the skill set to play the Udogie role both on the wing + the centre of the park and I’ve seen him put In work defensively. Expecting him to come in and be defensively solid off the bat would be a fools errand but that doesn’t mean he can’t adapt and learn the role. Obviously a Juve fan would know more than me but also our FB aren’t atypical FB, as Pep said, they are more like attacking midfielders.

As a left footed left winger im just unconvinced tbh. At least I’m unconvinced when looking at the other options who are available. Don’t doubt his natural talent, physically he is imposing and he’s very fast. He’d suit the PL well from what I’ve seen. I can certainly understand why we would be interested in general. Plus HG and Base. I’m just not sure he’d be my choice of WF over the likes of Soulé and Nusa etc. Would also spell the end for Gil one would think, although that might be on the cards anyway.
 
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LukaKranjcar

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Iling-Junior would be an excellent signing. Young, hungry and homegrown - If Ange wants him and I can see why he would, go and get him and let him coach into whatever he sees fit.
 

McFlash

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Iling-Junior would be an excellent signing. Young, hungry and homegrown - If Ange wants him and I can see why he would, go and get him and let him coach into whatever he sees fit.
Add the price to that, if he is really only 15 odd million and it's almost a no brainer.
He sounds like a talented lad, so I'm sure Ange will find a place for him.
 

Ghost Hardware

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From the albeit limited clips I have seen, he should be a LB he is similar in style to Udogie. Powerful and decent dribbler also helped the fact he’s played CM a few times
Exactly, the defensive side would need a lot of work but offensively he could be perfect for this system. As a regular FB no he’d be bad, but how we have our FB I think he might be a big asset in that inverted role. From a physical stand point as well as a technical one. And even tho they invert it’s not as if they don’t sometimes get wide anyway.

Anyway I might be completely wide of the mark on this one and he ends up being a phenomenal WF, but just the feeling I get that an Ange FB role might suit him best. Ether way he has a lot of raw ability and recruiting that is never a bad thing.

I still think a double deal for the two Juve players would be a massive move so whilst I know it’s optimistic I hope that is what we are ultimately working towards.
 

rabbikeane

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I mean he’s not a LB so if we wanted to play him there he’d need work. It’s just a hypothetical at this point. Porro was also a defensive liability when we got him. I just think from watching him on a few occasions last season he has the skill set to play the Udogie role both on the wing + the centre of the park and I’ve seen him put In work defensively. Expecting him to come in and be defensively solid off the bat would be a fools errand but that doesn’t mean he can’t adapt and learn the role. Obviously a Juve fan would know more than me but also our FB aren’t atypical FB, as Pep said, they are more like attacking midfielders.

Italians also said that Udogie couldn't defend or play as a fullback. As you say it's different in our team than they'll be used to in their football. FBREF has Iling-Junior high in tackling and blocks compared to other full backs, so it's clearly something to work on there.
 

Ghost Hardware

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Italians also said that Udogie couldn't defend or play as a fullback. As you say it's different in our team than they'll be used to in their football. FBREF has Iling-Junior high in tackling and blocks compared to other full backs, so it's clearly something to work on there.
Very good point. Honestly think it could be a very savvy move.
 
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McFlash

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Very good point. Honestly think it could be a very savvy move.
Do you think he could be a good option to cover both LB and LW?
Do you think he could do a job in both positions? (I've not really seen the lad but that Juve fan seemed to see him as a winger foremost).

I like a bit of versatility in the squad/on the bench, to help with those little tactical tweaks during tricky games.
 

jpascavitz

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From the albeit limited clips I have seen, he should be a LB he is similar in style to Udogie. Powerful and decent dribbler also helped the fact he’s played CM a few times

You also have to consider our system, which is high-press and keeping the ball in the opponent's half which allows our full backs to be more "offensive" in nature. Maybe if we're linked with him he is a young talent that could develop/contribute as a winger or as a swiss army knife in defense on a limb. IF we've decided to move on from say Sess and/or Davies (as his contract winds down, has 1 year left after this season) then it could be good succession planning as well.
 

Ghost Hardware

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Do you think he could be a good option to cover both LB and LW?
Do you think he could do a job in both positions? (I've not really seen the lad but that Juve fan seemed to see him as a winger foremost).

I like a bit of versatility in the squad/on the bench, to help with those little tactical tweaks during tricky games.
For sure he can play winger, there’s no doubt. It’s his natural position. I’m just personally more interested in the concept of him as a FB when considering the system we play and his skill set. So in short yes, If we did manage to convert him he’d certainly be able to cover and play LW also. It’s just that I think in general we need another high quality WF in so if we did convert him I’d still look to bring in someone else. Tbh I think he would also eventually be able to comfortably play CM, he has done already for the youth team. It’s one of the reasons I think he could be v good at LB.
 

McFlash

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For sure he can play winger, there’s no doubt. It’s his natural position. I’m just personally more interested in the concept of him as a FB when considering the system we play and his skill set. So in short yes, If we did manage to convert him he’d certainly be able to cover and play LW also. It’s just that I think in general we need another high quality WF in so if we did convert him I’d still look to bring in someone else. Tbh I think he would also eventually be able to comfortably play CM, he has done already for the youth team. It’s one of the reasons I think he could be v good at LB.
Certainly sounds like a interesting option and combined with the low fee and HG status, it's got our name written all over it.
As my lad's just said to me, "let's buy all the Juve wingers!". 😂
 

JamieSpursCommunityUser

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I have been wondering the same thing, i've seen people on twitter being pretty adamant that he wouldn't even if he joined now but I have no idea if they are right.

UEFA defines locally-trained or ‘home grown’ players as those who, regardless of their nationality, have been trained by their club or by another club in the same national association for at least three years between the age of 15 and 21.

This is a little misleading, though, as I believe it's seasons not full years.

So if we assume that the counting begins the season you turn 15, he managed to get two seasons under his belt belt before leaving for Juventus. If he then joins us in January, he will get the third season with us and count as HG.

If we assume that the counting begins the season after you turn 15 (as in you have to be 15 when the season begins), he will only have one counting season until now. However, because he won't turn 21 until next season, next season will also count, and he'd get two seasons with us in addition to the one at Chelsea and count as HG at the end of the 2024/25 season.

So either way he will, as far as my understanding of the rule goes, eventually count as HG if we sign him in January.

All correct. To be precise about it, Illing-Junior would become Association trained in January 2025 if he joined in Jan 2024.

He's had 2 full seasons from the season in which he turned 15 (2018/19) to when he left Chelsea at the end of the season he turned 16 (2019/20)

He'd then have had another two half seasons at Tottenham over the next 12 months, and you're correct all of next season (when he turns 21) is applicable.

So he could even join in the summer and become Association trained 6 months later in June 2025.

But he won't be immediately association trained in August 2024, which obviously isn't the end of the world.

He'd be U21 eligible in the PL squad but not the UEFA squad in that brief time (fingers crossed if we qualify).


Article 45.05
An "association-trained player" is a player who, between the age of 15 (or the start of the season during which the player turns 15) and 21 (or the end of the season during which the player turns 21), and irrespective of his nationality and age, has been registered with a club or with other clubs affiliated to the same association as that of his current club for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons (i.e. a period starting with the first official match of the relevant national championship and ending with the last official match of that relevant national championship) or of 36 months. In the context of this paragraph, the season immediately preceding a player’s 15th birthday may be counted if his birthday is after the last match of the relevant national championship but before or on 30 June (winter championships) or 31 December (summer championships), and the season immediately following his 21st birthday may be counted if his birthday is on or after 1 July (winter championships) or 1 January (summer championships) but before the first match of the relevant national championship.
 
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rossdapep

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Aug 25, 2011
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There is a big difference between defending in a team that sit in a low block and a team that plays on the front foot.

The whole mindset changes and some players suit defending aggressively as opposed to being more tactical.
 

fecka

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I've said it before and I'll say it again, if Richarlison were to leave I hope we take a look at Viktor Gyökeres at Sporting.
He's been absolutely bullying the league so far and I believe he's more or less the complete package. Pacy, strong as an ox, good off the ball, extremely hard worker, quick feet, and a good finisher to boot.

22 G/A in 17 games in all competitions so far, 13 G/A from 11 games in the league.

 
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