The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - THE DEADLINE

[Trix]

Doesn't make sense to start the 23/24 season (assuming back 3) with:

RCB: Romero | New CB
CCB: New CB | New CB
LCB: New CB | New CB

That would be 5 signings and the only player in there that we currently have being Romero.

Not going to happen and wouldn't want it to be the case either.

I see us keeping at least Dier and Davies and potentially Tanganga too. That means only two new CBs in for the first choice CCB and LCB roles that need to be filled.

I agree that both are good enough to be backups, and playing one of them with two quality CB's will drag them up. The problem we have is the more of these old guard we play together the worse it gets. A new reliable Keeper will make a hell of a difference as well.

 

[Timberwolf]

Can you stream line herding cats?

Yeah I guess that's at the heart of the problem - the board are a barrel of cats chasing each other's tails.

I think in a short period of time we've massively improved footballing operations under Paratici - it's not perfect but our recruitment has been miles more streamlined and sensible - but I'm worried that if he goes we'll be back to square one with Levy and his band of imbeciles in charge again.

 

[PCozzie]

I suppose if you're a glass half full person then where we have gone after, and acquired, a ready-to-go first team player under Conte/FP they genuinely have been upgrades, and successful ones. However it is stark just how far we have to go, and at the pace of one, maybe two, upgrades per window we will not have succeeded before the first tranche are eyeing their contract end date and wondering whether sunny Spain or rainy Manchester might be a better fit.

We seem to be in a perfect storm of being out-spent by our 'top-six' rivals, and out-thought by the up and coming clubs like Brighton. This isn't terminal, but we need to decide what type of club we are and stick to it over a 10 year period.

And it's going to take a couple of totally out-of-character transfer windows just to catch up with the curve, let alone get ahead of it (all while fighting fires throughout the management levels within the club).

 

[Styopa]

Doherty's time here is a good microcosm of how the club has been run over the last few years.

- He played under four separate managers/head coaches in 3.5 years.

- He is the second right back in the last 2.5 years whose contract we have cancelled.

- We have also sold a right back (KWP) and bought 3 more right backs (including Porro) in that period.

- Following Doherty's departure, only Hojbjerg now remains of all the signings made during the Jose Mourinho period.

 

[mr ashley]

Doherty's time here is a good microcosm of how the club has been run over the last few years.

- He played under four separate managers/head coaches in 3.5 years.

- He is the second right back in the last 2.5 years whose contract we have cancelled.

- We have also sold a right back (KWP) and bought 3 more right backs (including Porro) in that period.

- Following Doherty's departure, only Hojbjerg now remains of all the signings made during the Jose Mourinho period.

Sadly just when we need some stability…..

 

[rossdapep]

i'm going to defend Davies a bit here. Every club needs players like this in the squad. Not one of the top earners, never rocks the boat, never complains, does his job when called upon. Not the most spectacular player in the world, and not the best left sided defender in the world, but always puts a shift in

Dont disagree with that.

A lot of title winners have players like that cause theyll do as you stated.

The issue is when that player becomes a permanent fixture in the 11.

Their role should be to step in when needed and thats it

 

[FibreOpticJesus]

'disagree

Soz that was fat fingers?

 

[Ghost Hardware]

i'm going to defend Davies a bit here. Every club needs players like this in the squad. Not one of the top earners, never rocks the boat, never complains, does his job when called upon. Not the most spectacular player in the world, and not the best left sided defender in the world, but always puts a shift in

Agree, by all accounts he is a good character in dressing room as well. Tbh I have zero problem with keeping him and him being our back up LCB. Not everyone in your team can be top class. Well, unless you’re Chelsea. But he shouldn’t be a starter. Neither Dier or Davies are good enough to be starting in a team trying to get top 4 let alone win something.

 

[jpascavitz]

Donated, thanks for another great and entertaining window on here! Now I have to go make up 5 weeks of work ?

 

[Tezza1978]

My thoughts on the window:

• Getting Porro in was massive. A very tough deal to do given Sporting didn't want to sell mid-season and was definitely the best available RWB out there in the market.
• Danjuma was a very shrewd bit of business. I didn't realise how impressive a season he had last year and his cameo against PNE showed he is probably more ready to make an impact for us right now than Gil. Loan to buy is always a good model, especially mid season. The Lo Celso situation could also be interesting here in the summer as it might allow us to secure a player we want and sell a player we don't in an easier negotiation.
• Not getting in a CB was borderline criminally negligent of us. We really only have 1 world class CB in our squad (Romero) and although I think Lenglet and Davies are capable first teamers they have to have 2 world class players alongside them for it to work. Dier, Sanchez and Tanganga are all below the level we need, with only Tanganga being a possible squad player due purely to his HG & Club trained status.

So in terms of signings, it was a 6/10 for me. I think anything beyond 3 signings was always highly unlikely in January, but the importance of a new CB was seemingly overlooked. I get that it's hard to find one, but it should have been a massive priority.

• Gil out on loan was the right call, he needs to be playing and Danjuma in means we have cover.
• Spence out on loan was the right call, same as above - he wasn't going to get any game time.
• Doherty out permanently is great news, that's one less deadwood player for us to shift in the summer. I do think that RWB options of Porro with Emerson as backup is the best end scenario for us too. Doherty out on free/termination is also fine by me and shows that the club realises that they have to cut their loses to balance the squad. The way it happened though seems fucking amateur and is a bit of a disgrace really.

In terms of outgoing, putting aside the way the Doherty exit happened, i'd rate the window as a 8/10 - we made the right decisions based on the incomings IMO.

Overall I think that's therefore a 7/10 window for me. We did really need a CB, but it is hard to get that right in Jan and so I can see why this didn't happen. Hopefully this is enough to get us top 4 this season and we can crack on with defensive signings in the summer.

Excellent post. I came on to post about the window outcome and I couldnt have put my views much better. Though I do think the Doherty termination is not anywhere near as bad for us (and the player) as has been made out by some. Levy would never have signed it off if it was.

 

[andyp8080]

Agree, by all accounts he is a good character in dressing room as well. Tbh I have zero problem with keeping him and him being our back up LCB. Not everyone in your team can be top class. Well, unless you’re Chelsea. But he shouldn’t be a starter. Neither Dier or Davies are good enough to be starting in a team trying to get top 4 let alone win something.

yeah i do agree with this

in respect of Dier, from what I know of him he seems a decent chap, and has had spells where he has played really well. But way too inconsistent and has too many mistakes in him as we have all seen

 

[rossdapep]

Doherty's time here is a good microcosm of how the club has been run over the last few years.

- He played under four separate managers/head coaches in 3.5 years.

- He is the second right back in the last 2.5 years whose contract we have cancelled.

- We have also sold a right back (KWP) and bought 3 more right backs (including Porro) in that period.

- Following Doherty's departure, only Hojbjerg now remains of all the signings made during the Jose Mourinho period.

Just shows how much of an issue that appointment was.

Easy to say in hindsight but the club should have either given Poch the season, or if Poch was done, taken the time to bring in a coach that would allow for continuation.

 

[brasil_spur]

Excellent post. I came on to post about the window outcome and I couldnt have put my views much better. Though I do think the Doherty termination is not anywhere near as bad for us (and the player) as has been made out by some. Levy would never have signed it off if it was.

I don't think anyone (or at least anyone worth listening to) is making out the termination was bad, just that it seems/seemed that the club got caught with their paints down on this as they didn't know about the 8 outgoing loans limit. If that was the case then it is fucking horrendous and frankly in any other sector would have resulted in someone getting fired over it.

 

[loststar]

I think there is a bit of an overreaction by a lot here. There are a few things to bear in mind:

- This month we bought a new RB that (should) significantly upgrade our starting 11 - he was our realistic Plan A purchase. With the exception of Chelsea (crazy club) not many top 6 sides improved their first 11. I know a number of people have asked why we didn't buy him earlier in the window but I think we can presume it's because Sporting were holding firm in case Chelsea or another deep pocketed club wanted to start a bidding war. They didn't and we got the player - let's celebrate that success rather than look for ways to diminish it.

- January is a difficult month to buy players, principally because the time period for selling clubs to acquire replacements is limited. Clubs are unlikely to sell their best players unless silly money is thrown at them. Yes, we need upgrades at CB but there is no point spending money on players that are attainable now if our actual targets will be available in the Summer. Understandably everyone is concerned about the form of some (Davies, Diet etc) but it wasn't long ago that they (and Conte) were being lauded for significant improvement. Yes, we need to get Champions League but we need the players we have - who are very good btw - to step up and perform. Which leads me to...

- Conte needs to take more responsibility for improving the players he has. It's easy to say we need to buy better / more expensive players but we have seen too many examples where we have spent large amounts of money on new players to show that doesn't always work (Davison Sanchez....). If you look at Newcastle's back four, no-one would have taken any of them at the start of the season - but players can be trained and drilled to perform. That's on Conte.

- Conte (and Mourinho) were backed by the owners. It's the recruitment that has let us down the last couple of years, not so much the quantum of investment. A lot of cash was spent on Ndombele, Lo Celso, Gil, Royal, Reguillon etc - we shouldn't have to be replacing / upgrading these players - they should have been mainstays in the team. Fortunately it looks like with kULU and Bentancur we are improving this area.

- I think a lot of the hysteria is borne from seeing Arsenal top of the league. Understandable. But if they were below us then I think there would be a slightly more calm review as to where we are.

All in all, we have made progress in January. Let's see where we get to at the end of the season. If Conte leaves, it's not because he hasn't been backed.

 

[WiganSpur]

Doesn't make sense to start the 23/24 season (assuming back 3) with:

RCB: Romero | New CB
CCB: New CB | New CB
LCB: New CB | New CB

That would be 5 signings and the only player in there that we currently have being Romero.

Not going to happen and wouldn't want it to be the case either.

I see us keeping at least Dier and Davies and potentially Tanganga too. That means only two new CBs in for the first choice CCB and LCB roles that need to be filled.

Best we can hope for this summer under ENIC is:

- Replacing Lenglet with Hincapie or other left sided option
- Keeper to replace Lloris
- Danjuma made permanent or other forward for similar fee
- A young prospect in the Sarr / Udogie mould likely in some irrelevant position
- Maybe one of Sanchez, Tanganga, Davies, Emerson, Reguilon, Gil, Lo Celso, Rodon, Sessegnon, Ndombele and Winks sold

In an ideal to world i'd add to the above by upgrading on Dier and or Sanchez but it won't happen.

It's never gonna be better than a 6 or 7 out of ten.

 

[Johnny J]

Best we can hope for this summer under ENIC is:

- Replacing Lenglet with Hincapie or other left sided option
- Keeper to replace Lloris
- Danjuma made permanent or other forward for similar fee
- A young prospect in the Sarr / Udogie mould likely in some irrelevant position
- Maybe one of Sanchez, Tanganga, Davies, Emerson, Reguilon, Gil, Lo Celso, Rodon, Sessegnon, Ndombele and Winks sold

In an ideal to world i'd add to the above by upgrading on Dier and or Sanchez but it won't happen.

It's never gonna be better than a 6 or 7 out of ten.

Exactly this.

 

[mr ashley]

Just shows how much of an issue that appointment was.

Easy to say in hindsight but the club should have either given Poch the season, or if Poch was done, taken the time to bring in a coach that would allow for continuation.

We all know why levy went with Jose though.
his own ego -both in terms of winning a battle to finally sign him(despite his stock dropping considerably) and the fact that he told Levy that the players he’d signed off on were good enough.

 

[Timberwolf]

Best we can hope for this summer under ENIC is:

- Replacing Lenglet with Hincapie or other left sided option
- Keeper to replace Lloris
- Danjuma made permanent or other forward for similar fee
- A young prospect in the Sarr / Udogie mould likely in some irrelevant position
- Maybe one of Sanchez, Tanganga, Davies, Emerson, Reguilon, Gil, Lo Celso, Rodon, Sessegnon, Ndombele and Winks sold

In an ideal to world i'd add to the above by upgrading on Dier and or Sanchez but it won't happen.

It's never gonna be better than a 6 or 7 out of ten.

Yeah - we're always going to be a position or two behind next summer.

As soon as we fix CB and GK we'll need to figure out how we go about replacing two irreplaceable players in Kane and Son. It's going to take at least 2 more windows until we've got true strength/depth in all areas.

I suppose one positive is that with players like Udogie and Sarr we've hopefully laid the groundwork in those positions. If they can both step up over the next year or so that gives us a massive boost in 2 positions. The last young player we successfully brought through in that way was probably Alli and it's been far, far too long since then. Maybe Skipp, but he's not a true first teamer yet.

 

[Pip]

(Very) Long time lurker here - setup monthly donation for £7 as figured for the price of a couple of coffees a month it's more reliable for Rob and co to help run this site and I can continue to be entertained by the wild emotional swings of a number of posters. Keep up the good work guys.

 

[brasil_spur]

We will have Perisic & Destiny as our LWB options though, what’s the point of keeping Sess ?
I agree with you though, the club wouldn’t do it.

Perisic turns 34 tomorrow and is a Conte player through and through. My opinion is that it's very unlikely Conte will be in charge next season, and even if he is having a player who hasn't set the world alight so far in the prem, playing a demanding role at the age of 34, turning 35 is a big ask.

The point of keeping Sess is that there is a squad player in there and he's HG.