The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - The Concise Edition 10th July 2013

[tony0379]

I'm angry.

Goodnight

Is he the Russian Falcao???

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

Wrong. In theory I think there are two alternative pots. Current and development. Hopefully a couple of the more senior ITK's will confirm this. The Croats will probably have fallen into development.

Again, Benteke would fall into both.

 

[ziggy]

The issue is the frustration of not dealing with the same frailties of the squad year on year and messing up our pre-season by not having things in place for the start of the season

This.

How many points may not have been lost with all our dealings done before pre-season kicks in so new players were bedded in for the early PL games? How much money have those lost points cost in terms of lost CL revenue, enough to warrant dragging out transfers ? Sadly we'll never know, but we never seem to learn.

 

[SpursSteveLincs]

I'm angry.

Goodnight

why so angry?

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

We talk about transfers in terms of single-stream because it's best estimate. Clubs stage all transfers (maybe not the petro clubs) and the fact is that the number we see is usually best case scenario depending on performance clauses.

So we say Paulinho is 17m GPB. And we consider it all all paid this year.

Because the real truth is that he is probably 4m this year, 3m next year and 3m the following with conditions allowing for an extra 5m if he hits all markers. But figuring that out is either a full time job or a commitment of the utmost love. So it's easier to use one value and one time frame.

And it's exactly why Real Madrid still owe us 20m. They aren't strapped for cash. They staged the transfer.

As always, the Swiss Ramble is helpful for understanding just how little we understand on finances. http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2013/04/show-me-money.html

In that article you will see two interesting things immediately.

One) we have the most investment in fixed assets of any club in the league. 42m GPB and that is mostly allocated to the training center. This can't be stressed enough......fix assets limit a club, as unlike a player, you can't sell them to a Russian club for a positive ROI. The good thing is that you get much more time to pay those debts off. But that 42m is going to continue to rise through the building of the our new stadium and it is a debt that will need to be serviced from our income just like any players.

So the next time somebody calls Levy cheap, if you want to defend him, there are 42 million arguments at your immediate disposal. We're a club, not a goddamn player exchange outfit. We have way more financial obligations than a striker.

Two) We have roughly 32 million in working capital. Money that can be used to spend on debts owed. Paulinho=17m. 32m-17m=15m. Anyone else seem to recall that exact number recently? And this is why you play the ball and not the man. Ali Z was told something and passed it on in earnest. But whoever told him that seemed to be equating working capital with spending power.

And that is not the case.

So Calm Down.

You used red to make your point

 

[EnfieldYiddo]

Being a Spurs fan I echo others concerns' about signing Chadli even though I've never seen him play and therefore don't want him.

 

[RJ1882]

why so angry?

Villa
Jedvaj
Halilovic

 

[xtrac]

Everyone keeps banging on about money, be good to see a loan or 2 from the u21 spanish team, playing for Real Barca etc that Morata looked pretty handy in the euro u21, as did a few other players...we seem to loan out bloody hundreds and yet cant get 1 or 2 in ourselfs, while we are scouting for that top draw striker we crave of unknown quantity on the cheap!

i got a disagree!! how traumatic im truly mortified!

 

[ryantegan]

why so angry?

I wanted David villa. I'm still pissed off

 

[Shea]

This.

How many points may not have been lost with all our dealings done before pre-season kicks in so new players were bedded in for the early PL games? How much money have those lost points cost in terms of lost CL revenue, enough to warrant dragging out transfers ? Sadly we'll never know, but we never seem to learn.

I think points lost due to signings being made too late and after the season started in each of the past two seasons has cost us CL football

 

[ever]

Fuck me your a bunch of depressing cubits aren't you?

Oh no! A few players that we were supposed to be signing aren't happening now, oh well there's plenty more players who will still improve us out there

Man up, grow up, shut up

Whining bastards the lot of you

 

[Shea]

I wanted David villa. I'm still pissed off

was he ever realistic enough to get hopes up to the extent you'd be pissed off that it didn''t happen? always seemed more of a pipe dream

 

[KILLA_SIN]

We will sell Adebayor and Have Defoe and Kane all season I can feel it

That made me laugh then I got worried.

 

[Hoopspur]

Fuck me your a bunch of depressing cubits aren't you?

Oh no! A few players that we were supposed to be signing aren't happening now, oh well there's plenty more players who will still improve us out there

Man up, grow up, shut up

Whining bastards the lot of you

Cheers and good to see you back. Saw you were on line in this guise earlier.

 

[ryantegan]

was he ever realistic enough to get hopes up to the extent you'd be pissed off that it didn''t happen? always seemed more of a pipe dream

Even harry said it was done

Never mind

 

[Kirayid]

The issue is the frustration of not dealing with the same frailties of the squad year on year and messing up our pre-season by not having things in place for the start of the season

this I understand but it is kind of hard to think of available players, that are within our reach, that would make us stronger straight away. Chadli seems decent but can he slot right in? Holtby seems to be finding hes feet still. Benteke sure but 25m£.. Still think he is the best option from premiership. Higuain would be quality but on this we have to wait and see if there is any takers with CL. At Lb can't think of, other than Baines, that would make us straight away stronger.

 

[SpursSteveLincs]

Villa
Jedvaj
Halilovic

shit happens, life goes on!

 

[SpurSince57]

However, it is also unlikely that we got all the money up front for sales in the last two seasons. Ergo, we don't necessarily have £40 m-£50m in the kitty.

But this is the wacky alternative universe of football finance, so we do, if only in a notional sense. The whole creaky edifice depends on trust: Fulham, for example, trust us to cough up what we owe on Dempsey and Dembele, and we trust, say, Stoke and Spartak to cough up what they owe us on Crouchinho and the Rubbish Russian in order that we can fulfil our obligation to Fulham. We couldn't start serious negotiations for Moutinho until we had the Modric money from Real, but we're still waiting for the actual cash, so it was the rock-solid promise that we'd see it at some time in the future that enabled us to start doing business. It's only when a club's credit fails, as with Pompey, that the system starts to wobble

Sure, this £40m-£50m figure is a guesstimate, based on—as I said—a very rough bit of arithmetic, and, as EJW pointed out, we've got excellent credit with the banks. I would respectfully submit, however, that the notion we have only enough in the kitty for one big(ish) signing is some way wide of the mark.

 

[SpursSteveLincs]

I wanted David villa. I'm still pissed off

meh, i wanted Megan Fox

 

[kaz Hirai]

you disagree then Hoopspur? man up come out of the shadows and say why you disagree?

hell i'll even bet you that we start at crystal palace with either Defoe or Ade starting if you're up for it. It's not despair or toys out the pram, it's just the way we roll. we do the bulk of business right at the end unfortunately when the season is well underway