The beginning of the end...

[Mr Pink]

That's fair, we can only really speculate as to why Poch has made the decisions he's making. You're right that we haven't pressed the way we once did for a long time now, but my hope is that once the squad is fully fit and Poch has the ability to rotate as needed we'll see it come back. Last season it was a complete impossibility and as for this season, it's a lot to ask of players who are still working their way up to full fitness in the early going to press like animals when you know there's little possibility to rotate and rest them with half the squad out recovering from injury or in Poch's bad graces. Fingers crossed that once we're fully up to speed we'll see the press return because the current complacency on the pitch is not cutting it.

Watching Liverpool against Arsenal their pressing was so aggressive, Arsenal literally couldnt get out of their corner... Salah leading the press swarming all over them.

Why can't we see some of that. Obviously we can't always see that, especially against bus parkers, but we havnt seen it in so long.

Can't just be down to injuries. It's just work rate, and should be timed when to do it.

 

[double0]

We still have the same team that struggled last year, we still have many of the same injuries. We made one major signing early and then 2 on deadline day. Is there any reason to expect the weaknesses we had from not spending for years to be fixed in the first 3 games when our only effective signing was injured ? It’s as if people look at the amount spent and think it instantly translates to a different team. Well if all 3 had a full pre-season and were fit maybe that would be a more reasonable expectation but even then it seems super harsh to go all negative on our best manager since Bill Nick after just 3 games. It’s like his ridiculous achievements in 5 years count for nothing.

I back Poch to get it right.
On paper we have a good squad but clearly there is confusion amongst the rank. We have contractual issues surrounding the 3 ex Ajax players not signing, it seems they are angling towards running their contracts down possibly leaving on the free. There's talk of Wanyama Aurier Rose being subject to bids all this confusion. All this wouldn't of been mentioned if we were winning.

We had far much more to deal with last season with the postponement of the stadium playing at Wembley no signing injuries to key player ie Alli Dier Kane all this was brushed over with those dramatic late winners and our CL run. Reality has come back to face use we have underlining things to fix

 

[scat1620]

Watching Liverpool against Arsenal their pressing was so aggressive, Arsenal literally couldnt get out of their corner... Salah leading the press swarming all over them.

Why can't we see some of that. Obviously we can't always see that, especially against bus parkers, but we havnt seen it in so long.

Can't just be down to injuries. It's just work rate, and should be timed when to do it.

Agreed. And on the odd occasions where we do do it, wouldn't it be nice to see that pressing happening in minutes 0-15 rather than minutes 75-90?

 

[Spursfan1414]

Really?
Then I'll explain.
It matters because if you are behind and have had 17 shots in the first half but are still behind, you then have another 45mins to score.
If you leave it until the last minute to shoot you won't have scored up until that point (because you haven't had a shot, makes it difficult) and then if you still dont score then you're fucked.
I'd have thought that was obvious.
Apparently not.
Sorry for being pissy but was a bizarre thing to say

You've completely missed the point on this, we're talking about this from the perspective of a game that's already finished where we've had 17 shots. So if we had 17 shots in the first half then we'd have had 0 in the second, how is that any better? The number of shots in this discussion is completely fixed because we're talking about judging games that have already finished. The discussion is purely about whether you think a performance where we have 17 shots and most of them come in the last 20-30 minutes is really much different from one where they're spread more evenly or where they mostly come in the first 20-30 etc.

Obviously it's better to have had 17 shots in the first half and still have a second half left to have more shots rather than just having 17 shots all game, but that's not at all what we're talking about.

 

[hakano]

DL will do whats best for the club. If Poch has lost the dressing room which didnt just happen yesterday, has dropped Jan for no apparent reason and the players are reflecting this on the pitch, big decisions have to be taken... if you think that Levy will let it drift after weve reached our first CL final, finishing regularly in the top 4, considered challengers and moved into the best stadium in the country, well he wont....

Well Levy has played his part in allowing us to be in the mess we are in today - I’d be surprised if he wasn’t aware of his cock ups - so maybe just maybe he will cut the best manager he has had some slack. They both need to up their game.

 

[Danny1]

So to pose a question then. If we were to finish outside the top 4 this year (say we finished 5th) would that be seen as a failure for Poch and result in his sacking? Or are we starting a new squad rebuilding with the view that we can drop back into the Europa for a few years...?

The reason I ask is because we clearly aren’t going to break the top 2 as we are a million miles behind City and Liverpool so what is our target, 3rd only, or 3rd and 4th only....?

 

[Mr Pink]

Agreed. And on the odd occasions where we do do it, wouldn't it be nice to see that pressing happening in minutes 0-15 rather than minutes 75-90?

It would because it sets the tone for the game imo. Use to love it when we came flying out of the traps.

Now, its just slow build up play with little movement ahead of the play. So it's side to side, waiting for openings that don't come because it's simply much easier to defend against.

But the minute we lose the ball we should be trying to win it high up the pitch, just don't see that so much now.

That said Lamela did it against Villa for Harry's first, but it's a rare sight these days

 

[ajspurs]

That's fair, we can only really speculate as to why Poch has made the decisions he's making. You're right that we haven't pressed the way we once did for a long time now, but my hope is that once the squad is fully fit and Poch has the ability to rotate as needed we'll see it come back. Last season it was a complete impossibility and as for this season, it's a lot to ask of players who are still working their way up to full fitness in the early going to press like animals when you know there's little possibility to rotate and rest them with half the squad out recovering from injury or in Poch's bad graces. Fingers crossed that once we're fully up to speed we'll see the press return because the current complacency on the pitch is not cutting it.

Possibly, and that would be logical and probably smart reasoning as to why you wouldn't use it. I'm just not sure I can see us suddenly pressing like how we used to when we have a fit squad. I'd love to be wrong, but I wound't be betting on us suddenly doing so. Will be interesting to see.

In saying that though, the press isn't the only thing missing from our game currently and to be honest our inability to use possession effectively and progressively is probably a bigger worry.

 

[scat1620]

So to pose a question then. If we were to finish outside the top 4 this year (say we finished 5th) would that be seen as a failure for Poch and result in his sacking?

Levy would sack him faster than @RickyVilla gives me another well-deserved Funny rating.

 

[Wadec]

So to pose a question then. If we were to finish outside the top 4 this year (say we finished 5th) would that be seen as a failure for Poch and result in his sacking? Or are we starting a new squad rebuilding with the view that we can drop back into the Europa for a few years...?

The reason I ask is because we clearly aren’t going to break the top 2 as we are a million miles behind City and Liverpool so what is our target, 3rd only, or 3rd and 4th only....?

I dont think it will get that far, I feel it is either resolved one way or the other in the next few weeks.

After the transfer window closes we will know what the squad is and Poch will then have to show he can get then onside again. If he does that the results and performances will come if he cannot he wont be here at the end of the season imo.

 

[stevenurse]

It was great football by both sides worthy of a CL semi final.

Aren’t we allowed to celebrate this anymore? Ffs

I didn't say we couldn't. It was an amazing game and possibly the best feeling I've had as a spurs fan. But don't blinker yourself into thinking we were the harlem globetrotters that night.

 

[Primativ]

Lamela was literally the only one pressing on Sunday but when it’s just one player pressing its absolutely useless

The team stopped pressing about two years ago, bar the odd game or period of a game. We are a million miles away from the press that City and Liverpool do. There’s just no excuse for it.

 

[arunspurs]

So to pose a question then. If we were to finish outside the top 4 this year (say we finished 5th) would that be seen as a failure for Poch and result in his sacking? Or are we starting a new squad rebuilding with the view that we can drop back into the Europa for a few years...?

The reason I ask is because we clearly aren’t going to break the top 2 as we are a million miles behind City and Liverpool so what is our target, 3rd only, or 3rd and 4th only....?

In other season, I would say it need not be a failure. But this season finishing in EL is a failure. My reasoning is, other teams are weaker. Chelsea, United, Arsenal are in different stages of transition. And we are supposed to be settled, well oiled machine.

But on question of sacking Poch on back of EL finish - IMO, He has earned enough credit with fans to get away with it. But, it comes down to reasons why the below par performance. If its due to bad relations with players, he will be sacked. I cant see club mgmt tolerating dressing room fall outs. Hence, I feel VY info, if true, is ominous.

 

[Tonio]

Lamela was literally the only one pressing on Sunday but when it’s just one player pressing its absolutely useless

The team stopped pressing about two years ago, bar the odd game or period of a game. We are a million miles away from the press that City and Liverpool do. There’s just no excuse for it.

People were slagging lamela on Sunday. He was one of our best players for the reasons you mentioned.

 

[bubble07]

This thread has taking off. Must be some sort of record

 

[Spurslove]

I think it's a shame that some members are attacking the original poster for saying many things which so many of us are feeling right now. For me, it doesn't matter if it is a knee-jerk reaction to what appears to be going on. Even knee-jerk reactions are right and accurate sometimes.

Clearly, something is amiss at THFC and what hurts the most (for me) is that we've been priding ourselves on the club being one of the happiest in the EPL for some time, but suddenly, we have a number of players with 'issues' of one sort or another, and possibly the manager too.

Personally, I decided a while back not to listen to anything Poch says in his press conferences because he makes no sense and seems to be purposely ambiguous about a number of issues. It's no longer a language issue. I think he speaks the lingo perfectly well by now and knows exactly what he's doing.

I have so much admiration and gratitude for the gaffer and what he's done for the club. He's given us our club back in so many ways over the years and we're so proud to be who and where we are now, but the time comes for everyone in modern day football to move on, and if he wants to go at the end of the season, he should go with our best wishes, as long as it's not to any of our main rvals in the EPL of course.

If (and it is a massive 'if') he has already intimated to Levy that he wishes to leave at the end of the season, the club should already have started to put some feelers out for his successor, and there would be a long line of potential top quality candidates if that is the case, and again, 'if' that has leaked out to the players, it could be a reason why the team is playing such dreadful boring, sideways and backwards football as we all saw on Saturday.

Then again, that might be a million miles from the truth, but something is definitely wrong behind the scenes which is seriously affecting our performances on the pitch where it matters most and I think we all agree on that.

.

 

[Tonio]

This thread has taking off. Must be some sort of record

It's dividing people that's for sure.

 

[tttcowan]

Lamela was literally the only one pressing on Sunday but when it’s just one player pressing its absolutely useless

The team stopped pressing about two years ago, bar the odd game or period of a game. We are a million miles away from the press that City and Liverpool do. There’s just no excuse for it.

For all Lamelas faults I always thought he really helped set the tempo back in the day. Perhaps that's why Poch is sticking with him currently. Trying to get the press back.

It's not good. But still gotta give Poch time to get it back.

 

[hakano]

and for the record i dont want mourinho or anyone else. I want Poch to sort it as im quite sure Levy does too... but we are supposed to be a “big” club, CL finalists, challenging for the title, attracting top talent, stadium etc...so we need to start being like Liverpool and City in terms of playing and if theres a problem we identify it and fix it...but i dont see problems being fixed or lessons being learnt...even with certain players being unavailable we should be playing much better and not losing to Newcastle...City are pissed they dropped points to us but look at their play and attempts on goal, we cant even claim that against Newcastle....760 passes on Sunday and probably 730 sideways and back....

Val not knocking you at all but as you are pro DL do you not believe he has contributed to the current state of play? You say we need to act like a big club on pitch but Poch has never been backed to that extent. We even had a self imposed transfer ban as our glorious leader completely misread the entire 2018 transfer window. We can not dismiss the knock on effect last summers disastrous mismanagement from the very top has had and is continuing to have on Poch and the team. When you are not happy at work you can not be great at your job and that applies to every single job out there.

 

[Ronwol196061]

It's dividing people that's for sure.

We are all hanging on a thread it's a slow death till next weekend