We beat ManU’s press because they are very bad at it. They are a very average side being poorly managed and they thrashed us. We are not giving our forwards good chances.
Match Threads Spurs Vs Man United
- Thread starter chrissivad
- Start date
- Date
- Oct 30, 2021
- KO Time
- 17:30
- Score
-
Spurs 0-3 Man United
Ronaldo (39) Cavani (64) Rashford (86)
Ray Ray
Well-Known Member
- Jan 15, 2018
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Poor tactics, but how much is the manager? I know hes defensive and pragmatic, but these same players (bar the summer signings) have played the same turgid football under 3 different managers now.
We need a rebuild, pure and simple we need to get rid of the old guard (winks, Alli, dier, Davies, etc) and just start fresh.
I don't know why we fucked up our discussions with ETH as he would have been the perfect manager for what we need.
We need a rebuild, pure and simple we need to get rid of the old guard (winks, Alli, dier, Davies, etc) and just start fresh.
I don't know why we fucked up our discussions with ETH as he would have been the perfect manager for what we need.
worcestersauce
"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
- Jan 23, 2006
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I agree we are not giving our forwards good chances I've been saying that for some time and that it's something we've got to work on. They are not a very average side though, that's going a bit far.
slartibartfast
Grunge baby forever
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SirHarryHotspur
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- Aug 9, 2017
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Thought in our first game of the season against Man C the players showed more commitment without Kane than they have with him in the side, Stevie, Sonny & Lucas up front , why not.
FloridaSpur
Well-Known Member
- Jun 21, 2021
- 1,117
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"The first thing we now need to do is get a manager that fits"
This is what worries mist fans i think.
I mean we will be on our fourth manager in four season (Mason excluded) and to think we ridicule Watford for doing the same thing.
Right man, right transfer budget and above all else a man with vision on how we want to play.
SirHarryHotspur
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- Aug 9, 2017
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Not unusual to get rid of managers if the ones coming in win something, Seville have been through 10 managers in 10 years and have still won 4 Europa Leagues in those 10 years
Sevilla Manager History | Past & Present | Soccer Base
Sevilla Football Club Managers, full history, past and present. Provided courtesy of Soccerbase.com, the Football Betting Site.
DenverSpur
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- Sep 25, 2011
- 2,052
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Took a day to get over that game. MmIm originally from the NW so losing to that lot always stings.
I thought we started brightly and had a much better tempo and intensity than in previous games. ManU started getting more into the game because of all the space we gave them down our left side. Most people on here have decided Davies should be the main scapegoat but for long periods especially in the first half for some bizarre reason all of the 3 behind Kane were camped out on the right side which left Davies isolated and exposed. I think that may explain the Lucas substitution. It’s possible he was supposed to be on the left side, and Son on the right, but kept drifting to the right.
It was pretty even up until the first goal - you cannot allow Fernandez the time and space on the edge of the penalty area to pick a pass.
We needed to pick up the pace in the second half but instead we started very slowly and never really got going. This is when substitutions were needed but Nuno , like many of our recent managers, seems loathe to make them to change the narrative of the game. The second goal sums us at the moment. Pass hit at Skipp instead of to him, ball lost and then Hojbjerg can’t be bothered to track Cavani back.
The overall stats for the season so far are damning. How much of that is the manager and how much is the players is an interesting question but it’s significant that 2 of our best players(out of 3 who could hold their head up) were new signings. The majorityt have been in a downward spiral performance wise under 3 managers so apart from a total clear out I’m not sure how effective Nuno, or any other manager can be. Grimm days ahead can be.
Whilst I understand the financial problems the pandemic have caused us with the Stadium debt I still believe ENIC missed an opportunity in the summer. Every club had suffered because of the pandemic and because they had not managed their financials as well as we had it was very much a buyers market. Given that and the fact that we had fallen behind from our recent upward projectory it seemed to me to make sense for Joe Lewis to give THFC a loan of say 100Million and really push the boat out to become contenders again; maybe hire Conte and totally revamp the squad. Instead as usual they went cautious and parsimonious and missed their chance. Now we are so far behind it is going to take years to get back to the level we were 3 or 4 years ago. They never seen to learn that sometimes you have got to grasp the opportunity when it presents itself or you end up going backwards
I thought we started brightly and had a much better tempo and intensity than in previous games. ManU started getting more into the game because of all the space we gave them down our left side. Most people on here have decided Davies should be the main scapegoat but for long periods especially in the first half for some bizarre reason all of the 3 behind Kane were camped out on the right side which left Davies isolated and exposed. I think that may explain the Lucas substitution. It’s possible he was supposed to be on the left side, and Son on the right, but kept drifting to the right.
It was pretty even up until the first goal - you cannot allow Fernandez the time and space on the edge of the penalty area to pick a pass.
We needed to pick up the pace in the second half but instead we started very slowly and never really got going. This is when substitutions were needed but Nuno , like many of our recent managers, seems loathe to make them to change the narrative of the game. The second goal sums us at the moment. Pass hit at Skipp instead of to him, ball lost and then Hojbjerg can’t be bothered to track Cavani back.
The overall stats for the season so far are damning. How much of that is the manager and how much is the players is an interesting question but it’s significant that 2 of our best players(out of 3 who could hold their head up) were new signings. The majorityt have been in a downward spiral performance wise under 3 managers so apart from a total clear out I’m not sure how effective Nuno, or any other manager can be. Grimm days ahead can be.
Whilst I understand the financial problems the pandemic have caused us with the Stadium debt I still believe ENIC missed an opportunity in the summer. Every club had suffered because of the pandemic and because they had not managed their financials as well as we had it was very much a buyers market. Given that and the fact that we had fallen behind from our recent upward projectory it seemed to me to make sense for Joe Lewis to give THFC a loan of say 100Million and really push the boat out to become contenders again; maybe hire Conte and totally revamp the squad. Instead as usual they went cautious and parsimonious and missed their chance. Now we are so far behind it is going to take years to get back to the level we were 3 or 4 years ago. They never seen to learn that sometimes you have got to grasp the opportunity when it presents itself or you end up going backwards
DenverSpur
Well-Known Member
- Sep 25, 2011
- 2,052
- 5,734
This pass map shows why Davies had problems! Everybody else is on the right whilst he’s on his lonesome on the left. He might not be everybody’s cup of tea but the rest of the team left him out to dry.
Last edited:
Marty
Audere est farce
- Mar 10, 2005
- 40,278
- 64,264
Cox: Lo Celso, Hojbjerg and Skipp are woefully unimaginative. Lack of guile in Spurs midfield is alarming
Skipp and Hojbjerg are not positive enough in possession, and Lo Celso had no impact. It makes omission of Ndombele all the more confusing
theathletic.com
The news cycle has moved on but Michael Cox's tactical breakdown is worth a read all the same.
For Tottenham Hotspur, Saturday night was one of those occasions when what happened in the stands was more telling than what happened on the pitch.
Tottenham fans reacted with fury when Lucas Moura was substituted. They jeered Harry Kane at times in the second half. When Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg gestured for more noise from behind the goal, none was forthcoming — as if supporters were telling the Dane his standing wasn’t high enough for such a request.
Nuno Espirito Santo was, of course, told he didn’t know what he was doing. And while the go-to chant for a beleaguered manager shouldn’t be analysed too sternly, it is worth wondering precisely what Nuno was doing. He selected a curiously cautious starting XI against a side that was there for the taking, wounded after the embarrassment of losing 5-0 to Liverpool last weekend. Tottenham didn’t have a shot on target.
Nuno selected Ben Davies, the cautious option at left-back when Sergio Reguilon has provided genuine attacking thrust this season. Davies was hardly solid defensively, losing Cristiano Ronaldo for the first goal — albeit it relied on a sublime finish more than the positioning of the defender — and then played Marcus Rashford onside for the third.
This selection decision was made to look even worse when Ole Gunnar Solskjaer opted for a 5-3-2 system, which meant the centre of the pitch was congested and Spurs’ out-ball was to the full-backs. Reguilon’s attacking qualities would have been particularly handy. Down that flank, even the often pedestrian Aaron Wan-Bissaka offered more in possession than Davies.
Maybe that can be considered unfortunate — Nuno might have expected Mason Greenwood to start on the right and didn’t fancy Reguilon in a defensive sense against him.
The situation in midfield is less understandable. Nuno omitted Tanguy Ndombele, an erratic player but capable of grabbing the game by the scruff of the neck and taking the fight to the opposition, in order to play the woefully unimaginative trio of Hojbjerg, Oliver Skipp and Giovani Lo Celso.
The Argentinian played at the top of the trio, but his most notable contribution was a misdirected pass intended for Son Heung-min at 1-0 down that brought a halt to the attack. This should have been a very simple pass, but Lo Celso’s attempt to play it with the outside of his preferred left foot meant it ran behind Son, and Bruno Fernandes was able to intercept.
Skipp and Hojbjerg are simply not positive enough in possession, and their roles within the midfield are never entirely certain. Spurs surely don’t need them both together.
The 17th minute of the game summed it up. Hojbjerg dropped back into defence to help build up play — a logical approach as Tottenham were up against two centre-forwards, so this helped them play around Ronaldo and Edinson Cavani.
He played a forward pass into Lo Celso, who had space to turn into, but took the easy option of returning the ball to Hojbjerg — who seems to be gesturing as if discouraging the return ball anyway — and Spurs were back to square one. Taking the ball on the turn is precisely Ndombele’s strength.
Then the ball was played to Skipp, who dribbled infield and realised that Emerson Royal was free down the right, but took so long to play the pass that his attempted crossfield ball was intercepted by Ronaldo, and the move broke down.
Two minutes later there was a similar example — Hojbjerg passes into Skipp, who has space to turn, but instead passes backwards to a defender. Again, Hojbjerg is gesturing as if Skipp doesn’t need to play a backwards pass.
Skipp’s passing range is unimpressive and together with Hojbjerg forms a very flat midfield duo. It was fitting that Manchester United’s second goal stemmed from a sideways ball from one to the other; Hojbjerg’s pass was played awkwardly and bounced up on Skipp. Hojbjerg then stood still as Cavani roared past him on the way to scoring.
It is perplexing that Nuno thinks this duo is the right approach for a game like this. Yes, he’s been guilty of being too adventurous in midfield previously, for Spurs’ defeat away at Arsenal, but Manchester United are not strong in the engine room. His preferred duo at Wolves, Joao Moutinho and Ruben Neves, were similarly cautious in their positioning but offered far more variety and ambition with their passing from deep.
After last weekend’s 1-0 loss to West Ham, when Spurs also failed to muster a shot on target in the second half, Nuno insisted his side had been better on the day. He couldn’t bring himself to say something similar here, admitting that the performance wasn’t good enough, and couldn’t be used as evidence that Tottenham were on the right path.
Indeed, it’s difficult to find many positives at all from the performance. Spurs’ sporadic moments of promise came when Son made runs in behind the Manchester United defence, or when he and Lucas both drifted inside to combine centrally.
Again, it’s a telling analysis of Lo Celso that the two wingers were more promising from his zone than he was. Kane had a tricky task, battling against three centre-backs alone, but he was hardly effective at dropping into deeper positions either. He is, after all, a better playmaker from deep than any of Spurs’ three midfielders here, with Ndombele not on the pitch.
It would be unfair to suggest that Nuno alone doesn’t appreciate Ndombele’s talent. Jose Mourinho’s relationship with the Frenchman was difficult, and Ryan Mason didn’t even bring him off the bench in the Carabao Cup final loss to Manchester City. But this Tottenham midfield needs to be based around someone. After the likes of Luka Modric, Mousa Dembele and Christian Eriksen, the lack of guile from the trio who started on Saturday is alarming.
Ultimately, Nuno was outcoached by a manager who many suspected wouldn’t still be in his job this weekend. Manchester United’s board held firm. Tottenham’s might not be so forgiving.
Tottenham fans reacted with fury when Lucas Moura was substituted. They jeered Harry Kane at times in the second half. When Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg gestured for more noise from behind the goal, none was forthcoming — as if supporters were telling the Dane his standing wasn’t high enough for such a request.
Nuno Espirito Santo was, of course, told he didn’t know what he was doing. And while the go-to chant for a beleaguered manager shouldn’t be analysed too sternly, it is worth wondering precisely what Nuno was doing. He selected a curiously cautious starting XI against a side that was there for the taking, wounded after the embarrassment of losing 5-0 to Liverpool last weekend. Tottenham didn’t have a shot on target.
Nuno selected Ben Davies, the cautious option at left-back when Sergio Reguilon has provided genuine attacking thrust this season. Davies was hardly solid defensively, losing Cristiano Ronaldo for the first goal — albeit it relied on a sublime finish more than the positioning of the defender — and then played Marcus Rashford onside for the third.
This selection decision was made to look even worse when Ole Gunnar Solskjaer opted for a 5-3-2 system, which meant the centre of the pitch was congested and Spurs’ out-ball was to the full-backs. Reguilon’s attacking qualities would have been particularly handy. Down that flank, even the often pedestrian Aaron Wan-Bissaka offered more in possession than Davies.
Maybe that can be considered unfortunate — Nuno might have expected Mason Greenwood to start on the right and didn’t fancy Reguilon in a defensive sense against him.
The situation in midfield is less understandable. Nuno omitted Tanguy Ndombele, an erratic player but capable of grabbing the game by the scruff of the neck and taking the fight to the opposition, in order to play the woefully unimaginative trio of Hojbjerg, Oliver Skipp and Giovani Lo Celso.
The Argentinian played at the top of the trio, but his most notable contribution was a misdirected pass intended for Son Heung-min at 1-0 down that brought a halt to the attack. This should have been a very simple pass, but Lo Celso’s attempt to play it with the outside of his preferred left foot meant it ran behind Son, and Bruno Fernandes was able to intercept.
Skipp and Hojbjerg are simply not positive enough in possession, and their roles within the midfield are never entirely certain. Spurs surely don’t need them both together.
The 17th minute of the game summed it up. Hojbjerg dropped back into defence to help build up play — a logical approach as Tottenham were up against two centre-forwards, so this helped them play around Ronaldo and Edinson Cavani.
He played a forward pass into Lo Celso, who had space to turn into, but took the easy option of returning the ball to Hojbjerg — who seems to be gesturing as if discouraging the return ball anyway — and Spurs were back to square one. Taking the ball on the turn is precisely Ndombele’s strength.
Then the ball was played to Skipp, who dribbled infield and realised that Emerson Royal was free down the right, but took so long to play the pass that his attempted crossfield ball was intercepted by Ronaldo, and the move broke down.
Two minutes later there was a similar example — Hojbjerg passes into Skipp, who has space to turn, but instead passes backwards to a defender. Again, Hojbjerg is gesturing as if Skipp doesn’t need to play a backwards pass.
Skipp’s passing range is unimpressive and together with Hojbjerg forms a very flat midfield duo. It was fitting that Manchester United’s second goal stemmed from a sideways ball from one to the other; Hojbjerg’s pass was played awkwardly and bounced up on Skipp. Hojbjerg then stood still as Cavani roared past him on the way to scoring.
It is perplexing that Nuno thinks this duo is the right approach for a game like this. Yes, he’s been guilty of being too adventurous in midfield previously, for Spurs’ defeat away at Arsenal, but Manchester United are not strong in the engine room. His preferred duo at Wolves, Joao Moutinho and Ruben Neves, were similarly cautious in their positioning but offered far more variety and ambition with their passing from deep.
After last weekend’s 1-0 loss to West Ham, when Spurs also failed to muster a shot on target in the second half, Nuno insisted his side had been better on the day. He couldn’t bring himself to say something similar here, admitting that the performance wasn’t good enough, and couldn’t be used as evidence that Tottenham were on the right path.
Indeed, it’s difficult to find many positives at all from the performance. Spurs’ sporadic moments of promise came when Son made runs in behind the Manchester United defence, or when he and Lucas both drifted inside to combine centrally.
Again, it’s a telling analysis of Lo Celso that the two wingers were more promising from his zone than he was. Kane had a tricky task, battling against three centre-backs alone, but he was hardly effective at dropping into deeper positions either. He is, after all, a better playmaker from deep than any of Spurs’ three midfielders here, with Ndombele not on the pitch.
It would be unfair to suggest that Nuno alone doesn’t appreciate Ndombele’s talent. Jose Mourinho’s relationship with the Frenchman was difficult, and Ryan Mason didn’t even bring him off the bench in the Carabao Cup final loss to Manchester City. But this Tottenham midfield needs to be based around someone. After the likes of Luka Modric, Mousa Dembele and Christian Eriksen, the lack of guile from the trio who started on Saturday is alarming.
Ultimately, Nuno was outcoached by a manager who many suspected wouldn’t still be in his job this weekend. Manchester United’s board held firm. Tottenham’s might not be so forgiving.
And the right players
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You can only have one 'first thing'.............
