Match Threads Spurs vs Chelsea - Match Thread

[Spurs_Bear]

What on earth are you on about? Have you seen Winks play before? Getting the ball upto the forwards quickly is exactly what Winks doesn't do. That is why he's benched, because he is neither good enough going forward to build play or defensively.

People need to realise that we do not have the answer in our squad. Winks, Dier and Sissoko, none of them are good enough to play CM for us going forward. We need to build our CM around Ndombele and we need to sign a top DM.

I am sure Mourinho knows we need a DM. Subbing Dier twice at halftime or before in his first month as Spurs boss suggests he thinks Dier is playing like shit. I would be gobsmacked if a new DM isn't top of his priority list in the transfer windows. Ultimately Jose can't polish a turd, and we have three turds in CM currently and Ndombele has been injured.

I have to say I feel some of this is down to Poch, who clearly thought Winks was the main man in CM for him, and that we didn't need to sign a DM. Winks was clearly not good enough but the window is shut and the only DM we have is Dier who is gash. Jose is fucked really and so are we until we sign a new DM and we need to keep Ndombele fit.

Have we still got the 3rd best squad in the league? Asking for a friend.

 

[Scott Spur]

It's become clear to me that if Mourinho is going to persist with the current formation and tactics then he needs to employ different personnel to make it work.

Using one of the full backs to defend while the other is given licence to push forward may well be designed to protect Aurier from having to do any defending, but it clearly isn't working. Partly because, with the notable exceptions of a very well-taken goal and (if I recall correctly) one assist, Aurier offers virtually nothing in attack. He is often given time and space to make a cross but very rarely finds a Spurs player. In addition, and more significantly, he doesn't track back when the attack breaks down. So we are always vulnerable to a counter-attack down our right side.

On the other side of the pitch, Vertonghen is no longer up to the task of playing as a conventional left back. If he plays it should only be as a centre-back (or possibly wing-back). If we're going to have the left back playing as a conventional full-back it has to be Davies. If he isn't available then Rose should play there but in the 'Aurier' role as the attacking player with a 'holding' full back on the other side. We have a choice. KWP or Foyth who can play there and, at a pinch, so can Sissoko or Dier. Any of these would be more reliable than Aurier.

With Wanyama's decline and Dier's form, we don't appear to have a true holding midfielder. Winks, Skipp and Sissoko can work in a pivot but none of them can shield the defence. If we have a 4-2-3-1 set up then the '2' has to be Nombele +1. Depending upon the opposition that other player could be any of Winks, Sissoko, Lo Celso, Skipp, Lamela or even Eriksen. Dier's midfield days appear to be short-lived and Poch was probably correct when he said that his best position was centre back. If he plays there then we can pick any two (or three) from Toby, Jan, Dier, Sanchez and Foyth, with Tanganga showing signs of being an able deputy.

The present front four clearly works as long as we have the ball now and again and don't simply launch it high towards the opposing centre backs. We also have the players to alternate, with Lo Celso, Lamela and Eriksen able to deputise for Alli or either of the wider players.

With that in mind, while I prefer a pretty passing game with good movement creating the space for us to pass the ball through the opposition, I have no problem in going long to exploit the speed of Son and Moura. What I do have a problem with is trying to do that most, if not all, of the time. If that is our primary tactic it becomes easy to defend against - particularly, as against Chelsea, when we simply launch a high ball and expect Kane to win it against three giant centre backs. We have to mix up the play. Gazzaniga giving it short makes the opposition come on to us, giving us the choice of playing it short or long. If every goal kick is hit long, and every time he gets the ball in his hands the keeper drop-kicks it out, then we become predictable and easy to defend against. Furthermore, we don't utilise the ability that our players have. If we're going to be 1980's Wimbledon then we may as well fill the team with cloggers.

I have an open mind regarding the way that we will play under Mourinho, and his reliance on the same core players in this system may only be a starting point. But if we're going to play the way that we've seen so far, we can't expect to be successful at it with these players lining up in these positions. We have obvious weaknesses and any half-decent team is going to exploit them.

Totally agree, new CDM & RB an urgent must.

 

[bubble07]

If Ndombele and Lo Celso could adjust to the league could that work?? Man City v Leicester didnt have a proper DM but had players who could pass quickly and keep the ball

 

[Reece_Spurs]

Did the whole away end hissing make it on TV?

Are you sure it wasn't the end part of the "Is this a library" chant? Fans usually do the "shush" noise (Being in a library) right after it. I used to think it was hissing at first.

 

[GutBucket]

If Ndombele and Lo Celso could adjust to the league could that work??

Not in a 4-2-3-1, both aren't good enough defensively, especially Ndombele. Lo Celso wasn't even good a CM at PSG and plays best in advanced position. It's kind of like playing Van der Vaart at CM. Not sure if they would do worse than Sissoko-Dier partnership but it's not the answer long term.

 

[bubble07]

Also how bad is wanyana to not even get a look in? How badly crocked is that guy?

 

[Primativ]

Have we still got the 3rd best squad in the league? Asking for a friend.

I think so. Davies and Ndombele being injured has fucked us a bit recently. Leicester are better than us at fullback and CM at the moment.

Chelsea are much better in CM.

We are much better than Arsenal and United. So yes I think we still are third best. We need Ndombele fit and playing every week. Poch wanted to build the side around Winks, which was his downfall. Jose needs a window to upgrade that position, he's having to get by with Dire Dier.

 

[riggi]

Are you sure it wasn't the end part of the "Is this a library" chant? Fans usually do the "shush" noise (Being in a library) right after it. I used to think it was hissing at first.

Ye I don’t think the hissing was THAT hissing..

 

[DiamondLites]

One positive from the game is surely Jose puts the kibosh on the Dier-Sissoko axis of woe. I’d be flabbergasted if he wheels them out as pairing next game

We absolutely must get an upgrade at DM, if we have to sell to buy one player in January then it must be a DM -we can make do just about with our full backs but we cannot do likewise at the DM position. I’d even rather see what Foyth can do in that role that trot out this version of Eric Dier

Sissoko is a trier but so limited technically and positionally playing him in 2 vs good teams in suicide

 

[Zoltar60]

Is Winks better than Ndombele?

No, but they've also completely different type of players. But we don't have a works class holding midfielder who has a great passing range. So Winks or Eriksen are the only current options, unless you want to keep with Dier.

 

[Ronwol196061]

No, but they've also completely different type of players. But we don't have a works class holding midfielder who has a great passing range. So Winks or Eriksen are the only current options, unless you want to keep with Dier.

I agree with that. The problem is it's hard enough to get a tough tackling DM with good movement never mind one that can pass
But do we need one with NDombele at CM. That works too.
It's just that Winks is not a DM and hasn't really played too much as a creative CM. (Yes some good passes but not the same class if quality as ND)

 

[stormfly]

As crap as we were today Chelsea also played out of their skin. They have been in crap form and pulled a performance out of the bag today. We are still massively in the race for the top 4. I wouldn’t be surprised if Chelsea blow it in the next two games and we close the gap again. If we aren’t in the conversation for top 4 in February I’ll be worried but atm in calm.

 

[Ronwol196061]

Ye I don’t think the hissing was THAT hissing..

If it was a library...but it's not.
You would hardly get Nazi fascists hissing in a library...well maybe in 1936

 

[RichieS]

Levy never backs managers. He is averse to spending on the football side. Anyone thinking things will be different with the stadium is fooling themselves.

Give it a fucking rest. Well, either that or show us some actual, y'know, evidence of Levy/ENIC either siphoning off club profits or just sitting on huge piles of cash for their own gain.

 

[Gareth88]

For all our quality players we looked very lacking today in a lot of areas. Cb,Rb,Lb, Cdm we need all of these refreshed and rejuvenated IMO

 

[Stamford]

I don't think Chelsea are even that good. We weren't up for it

 

[Deleted member 27995]

The squad is done, stick a fork in the majority of them.

 

[Gassin's finest]

 

[ultimateloner]

For me Mourinho is playing the right team and the right tatics, given what we have.
Aurier up is the logical thing to do given he is better going forward than defend, and we can't do without an overlapping player to create space for the AM to cross. Everyone will target Aurier so it is up to us to work the details to cover him. Buying a better RB is of course the cleanest solution but it's not part of the tactical discussion.
The problem is a better team with the right tools will expose you; which is why we are consistently bad against other top 6 teams but smash mid-tier teams and below.
Today's game (Chelsea) is a perfect example. Chelsea is under-rated but Sarri gave them a good foundation; my view is they have the best CM combo outside of Liverpool and MC. Jorginho and Kovavic can play the ball quickly out to Willian and with enough 1 v 1 situations he will beat Aurier eventually. We neither have the tools to get the ball quicker to our AMs (Moura/Son will destroy Alonso if they try enough times but do you really think Dier/Sissoko could get the ball to them?) nor can we press (to stop the ball getting to Willian; but we've lost this and is the main reason why Poch lost his job).
Until we get a proper CM combo (Tanguy is one of the pieces, but no one else in the current squad is another) we will suffer.

 

[wishkah]

So angry at this game. It was like watching a poch team.

Forewerds were very wide and it didn't help. Nothing was present in the middle. And then eriksen came on and literally stodd in middle... We had nothing until he stood there. Sanchez was excellent. Sissoko worked so hard but is so poor. Rest were ok