Spurs and VAR

[TwanYid]

Yes, I know there's a VAR thread- but what I'm talking about is a thread where we only, solely focus on and literally tally up how many OBVIOUS, TOTALLY WRONG VAR calls are made- or not made- in either our favor or against us. If VAR makes an obvious error clearly in our favor, that's +1, if it makes an obvious mistake against us, that's -1. Also, another issue to note will be if the VAR cal or non-call affected the outcome of the match. If we're winning 4-nil away at Villa and there's an OBVIOUS foul in the box on, say, Kane that doesn't get called (we're talking STONEWALL) but we still bag the points then that should be noted as well. I'm suggesting a thread that's pinned that remains "alive" all season. Each week, where applicable, we list the game and time-stamp the incident, starting with match 1 through match 38. I'll try and start, from memory (and please feel free to add to my admittedly incomplete list!):

10 August 2019-Aston Villa/home:

No VAR issues

17 August 2019-City/away:

Lamela stonewall pen on Rodri not called (+1)

-Points likely gained: 1

25th August 2019-Newcastle/home:

Lascelles fouls Kane in the box, stonewall pen not called (-1)

-Points likely lost: 1

1st September 2019-Ars*nal/away:

No VAR issues (Xhaka shouldn't have been on the pitch and Sokratis fouled Kane in the box, but we'll let that go)

14th September 2019-Crystal Palace/home:

No VAR issues

21st September 2019-Leicester/away:

Son incorrectly ruled offside by VAR, disallowing a goal by Serge Aurier that should have stood (-1)

-Points likely lost: 3

 

[Danners9]

Oh come off it sorry that's total bollocks and you know it ...it was a handball, he made himself bigger, you can see him move his arm towards the ball ffs

If they are disallowing goals for any touch by the hand or arm, they should be giving handball in the box for something similar. Same as offside, if they are not giving goals because all of the ball is not over all of the line then they should not be giving offside when the lines overlap.

 

[Dougal]

It’s all hypothetical. You’re underestimating Spurs ability to throw away a game without VAR’s help.

 

[Phomesy]

The margin is calculated by the prick in the var room plotting two lines. The only thing they know is the computer working out the distance of two lines placed on a 2d image. They dont factually know he was 1.6 cm offside.

Then why is MKYid so certain that "there is evidence"?

 

[fletch82]

If they are disallowing goals for any touch by the hand or arm, they should be giving handball in the box for something similar. Same as offside, if they are not giving goals because all of the ball is not over all of the line then they should not be giving offside when the lines overlap.

Surely his arm stopped the ball going goal bound and therefore advantage gained by use of the arm
Therefore penalty no discussion ?

As for our disallowed goal farcical decision comes to mind and its destroying the game in its current format for me personally.

 

[Escher]

They mean that the VAR "judgement" was 1.6cm. But the VAR "judgement" was total bollox, subjectively decided by a referee who's unlikely to be a top talent with computers and physics, and who in a under time pressure knowing this was the only live match at the time so he's on live tv fiddling with the lines with everyone watching asking what the fuck is he doing?

Notice how the initial freeze frame had the yellow line beyond the red, and in the final decision this magically switched around - he probably twitched on the mouse button with nervousness.

But in the end, no point complaining, we were bound to get a shitty VAR decision with all the noise about how lucky we've been with VAR (yeah, handball penalty against Rose given by VAR, Sissoko "handball" penalty in CL Final not overturned by VAR (notice how many of these penalties have not been given since, even in CL), clear penalty for foul on Kane vs Newcastle not given etc)

Hopefully, the obvious stupidity of this decision will see Spurs get more favourable calls from referees in future, I mean one PL penalty at home in two seasons for such an attacking team like ours indicates some kind bias against us.

 

[Dannyspur]

They mean that the VAR "judgement" was 1.6cm. But the VAR "judgement" was total bollox, subjectively decided by a referee who's unlikely to be a top talent with computers and physics, and who in a under time pressure knowing this was the only live match at the time so he's on live tv fiddling with the lines with everyone watching asking what the fuck is he doing?

Notice how the initial freeze frame had the yellow line beyond the red, and in the final decision this magically switched around - he probably twitched on the mouse button with nervousness.

But in the end, no point complaining, we were bound to get a shitty VAR decision with all the noise about how lucky we've been with VAR (yeah, handball penalty against Rose given by VAR, Sissoko "handball" penalty in CL Final not overturned by VAR (notice how many of these penalties have not been given since, even in CL), clear penalty for foul on Kane vs Newcastle not given etc)

Hopefully, the obvious stupidity of this decision will see Spurs get more favourable calls from referees in future, I mean one PL penalty at home in two seasons for such an attacking team like ours indicates some kind bias against us.

or we have some forwards who in the past have gone down 'a bit too easily' and built up a media reputation

 

[Dannyspur]

I have looked at this picture many times.and still can't see how they call it off side... The blue line is lined up with his knee, when you can clearly see his thigh is further out, if measured with his thighs would be onside... The line have been done based on someone objective of where his furthest point is.

Also due to the rules, they have not stated if it when the ball is played or when left the foot.. I always thought it was when it was played..

With all these pictures you have a frame rate which is not fast enough to dictate the truth..

What examples were we given when presenting for us to decide, as I suspect none would have been as close as this, and they had longer to decide where the lines would have gone for the presentation.

If they were not able to decide within 45 secs if it was clearly off side then the benefit should be given.

It is clearly states on the FA website it is when the other player touches the ball (not when it leaves his foot) From point of contact until the ball leaves the foot covers a huge distance which would have a major implications on where they choose to draw their dodgy lines.

I noticed the smirk from the ref twat on Sky "saying Spurs have benefitted so we shouldn't moan when it goes the other way"

I agree with your point about too close to call if it takes more than 45 seconds to tell

 

[Dannyspur]

The ref brigade in Clattenburg and Dermot have been out in force this morning talking utter bollocks. Both of them undermined themselves by trying to justify it and then ending with "Well it's the best technology we have at the moment" which is an admittance that it isn't perfect for me so therefore it should have margin.

Then they tried to go down the "Well the clubs all agreed to it" which again is further admittance of it being incorrect but that we should all shut the fuck up and accept it.

The system works based on human input and then the VAR analysing the difference. Dermot admitted the human would never see it but VAR would which shows we are at the whim of them believing the humans are using all 100% accurate data which is bullshit.

Anybody who says well it's machine based so we have to trust the technology is a fucking moron, just because I'm using a computer to write an email doesn't mean there isn't mistakes you utter ****s.

Aren't

 

[LeSoupeKitchen]

JJ retweeted this, saying well done that man:

Could be more than this if the defender is moving in the other direction to try and make the player offside.

 

[LeParisien]

JJ retweeted this, saying well done that man:

Clearly plagiarised my work ?

 

[TwanYid]

It’s all hypothetical. You’re underestimating Spurs ability to throw away a game without VAR’s help.

I get that- I really do- so obviously it's not like anything's guaranteed-- but seriously: we go 2-nil up we win that match. Kane gets the pen he so rightly would've/should've had vs. Newcastle, we get a point (if not 3). And even forgetting the "points lost/gained"-aspect of the whole thing, I think it would be interesting to actually catalogue, game by game, the SERIOUSLY shit VAR calls; the one(s) where you think to yourself "Why do they even bother with this fucking thing?"

Dougal there have been some unreal calls not made. Kane was fouled in the box against Newcastle- end of. Rose was fouled in the box against Leicester- end of. Or think about it this way: remember how Son was 100% absolutely no-question-about-it beyond all doubt fouled- in the box- at home against Liverpool last season, yet nothing was called? Obviously that was before VAR, but back then immediately following the match you'd (rightly) have thought "That is exactly what VAR will correct next season; if the ref could've re-looked at that they would've awarded us a pen because Son was fouled as sure as I'm sitting here." Well, a few months on and we have VAR and this shit STILL KEEPS HAPPENING! It's beyond my comprehension how a trained ref can watch Lascelles take Kane out in the box- without any intention other than to knock him out of the path of the ball- and not call that a pen. It boggles the mind.

That's why I think we ought to seriously catalogue- game by game- those particularly clearcut horrible VAR/non-VAR calls, the kind that totally affect games. Thus far- 6 games into the new season- we've been robbed of points even with VAR. We've had one get us points (the Lamela/Rodri non-call) and 2-3 cost us points (Newcastle, Leicester). So good and bad, let's keep a record of it. If we're the beneficiaries of some horrible VAR debacle refereeing, then so be it. Last season we beat Wolves away when we shouldn't have, as they had a perfectly good goal disallowed- so sure it goes both ways. HOWEVER- it goes against us far more than it goes for us, which- I predict- a season-long catalogue of ref horrors will bear out.

 

[Dougal]

I get that- I really do- so obviously it's not like anything's guaranteed-- but seriously: we go 2-nil up we win that match. Kane gets the pen he so rightly would've/should've had vs. Newcastle, we get a point (if not 3). And even forgetting the "points lost/gained"-aspect of the whole thing, I think it would be interesting to actually catalogue, game by game, the SERIOUSLY shit VAR calls; the one(s) where you think to yourself "Why do they even bother with this fucking thing?"

Dougal there have been some unreal calls not made. Kane was fouled in the box against Newcastle- end of. Rose was fouled in the box against Leicester- end of. Or think about it this way: remember how Son was 100% absolutely no-question-about-it beyond all doubt fouled- in the box- at home against Liverpool last season, yet nothing was called? Obviously that was before VAR, but back then immediately following the match you'd (rightly) have thought "That is exactly what VAR will correct next season; if the ref could've re-looked at that they would've awarded us a pen because Son was fouled as sure as I'm sitting here." Well, a few months on and we have VAR and this shit STILL KEEPS HAPPENING! It's beyond my comprehension how a trained ref can watch Lascelles take Kane out in the box- without any intention other than to knock him out of the path of the ball- and not call that a pen. It boggles the mind.

That's why I think we ought to seriously catalogue- game by game- those particularly clearcut horrible VAR/non-VAR calls, the kind that totally affect games. Thus far- 6 games into the new season- we've been robbed of points even with VAR. We've had one get us points (the Lamela/Rodri non-call) and 2-3 cost us points (Newcastle, Leicester). So good and bad, let's keep a record of it. If we're the beneficiaries of some horrible VAR debacle refereeing, then so be it. Last season we beat Wolves away when we shouldn't have, as they had a perfectly good goal disallowed- so sure it goes both ways. HOWEVER- it goes against us far more than it goes for us, which- I predict- a season-long catalogue of ref horrors will bear out.

Fair enough to keep a record but personally I think it’s healthier to let these things go and move on. We coulda/shoulda have had a pen here or there, still no guarantee that we’d score it or the result would fall in our favour. We need to make major improvements and getting hung up on the finer margins just ignores the bigger issues of our play. Yes, it will haunt us or favour but we have to accept it. It’ll do the same to every time but in the end the better team will still win the league and the shite ones will be fighting it out at the bottom.

 

[SpunkyBackpack]

Why does this read like the first SC thread written entirely by an algorithm?

 

[TwanYid]

Why does this read like the first SC thread written entirely by an algorithm?

Which parts of this do you have a problem with? All I'm asking is to note MAJOR, GAME-CHANGING horror calls (or non-calls)-- the kind that directly affect the match (so Pens, red cards, etc.-- not some small foul, but rather something incredibly, obviously incorrect, yet which VAR does nothing to ameliorate). Look- if we're honest we will list each time something match-altering happens, for or against. For example, I remember winning at Molineux last season and knowing we didn't deserve the 3 points because they scored a perfectly good goal that was erroneously ruled off-side. Point is, I can recall- and so can you, and so can we all- when we- or our opponent- was fucking robbed. What's wrong with just noting it game by game? Some matches won't involve this nonsense; some will. Let's keep a list and look back at the end of the season and see if we got the rub of the green, our adversaries did or if it's even. I'll bet dollars to donuts it'll be 2/3rds against us. Watch.

But like I said: don't take my word for it-- let's see ourselves! Why do you have to belittle me and make a snarky comment? Can you honestly tell me that in these first six games we've been the beneficiaries of VAR (or non-VAR)? No, right? One for, two against-- and I'm being SUPER conservative (there should've been a pen on Sokratis in the scum game but it was close enough that I suppose you could see it as Kane looking for contact- whatever that means).

So yeah- I'm only saying let's keep track of the real clangers-- the kind that make you wonder what the point of VAR even is. Is that really so algorithmic?

 

[SpunkyBackpack]

Which parts of this do you have a problem with? All I'm asking is to note MAJOR, GAME-CHANGING horror calls (or non-calls)-- the kind that directly affect the match (so Pens, red cards, etc.-- not some small foul, but rather something incredibly, obviously incorrect, yet which VAR does nothing to ameliorate). Look- if we're honest we will list each time something match-altering happens, for or against. For example, I remember winning at Molineux last season and knowing we didn't deserve the 3 points because they scored a perfectly good goal that was erroneously ruled off-side. Point is, I can recall- and so can you, and so can we all- when we- or our opponent- was fucking robbed. What's wrong with just noting it game by game? Some matches won't involve this nonsense; some will. Let's keep a list and look back at the end of the season and see if we got the rub of the green, our adversaries did or if it's even. I'll bet dollars to donuts it'll be 2/3rds against us. Watch.

But like I said: don't take my word for it-- let's see ourselves! Why do you have to belittle me and make a snarky comment? Can you honestly tell me that in these first six games we've been the beneficiaries of VAR (or non-VAR)? No, right? One for, two against-- and I'm being SUPER conservative (there should've been a pen on Sokratis in the scum game but it was close enough that I suppose you could see it as Kane looking for contact- whatever that means).

So yeah- I'm only saying let's keep track of the real clangers-- the kind that make you wonder what the point of VAR even is. Is that really so algorithmic?

Calm: down. It was JUST the way you wrote: the TITLE

 

[alamo]

So yeah- I'm only saying let's keep track of the real clangers-- the kind that make you wonder what the point of VAR even is. Is that really so algorithmic?

If that makes you feel better then go right ahead. Nobody is stopping you.

 

[wirE]

Such an intense game to watch. Leicester got their first goal disallowed for an obvious offside and then we score and have our second one annulled by a fraction of an inch. Leicester scores two and game over. I was so pissed off by the VAR decision, but come to think of it (and having time to cool off), we've been so lucky in the past and had VAR in our favor. This time we did not.

Looking at it the other way 'round, if the call for goal were to stand, we would never had this discussion. We would be happy celebration three points (most likely) and saluting VAR; again!

We need to get used to it that VAR is gonna favor or overrule. This is what everyone wanted

 

[robbiedee]

Such an intense game to watch. Leicester got their first goal disallowed for an obvious offside and then we score and have our second one annulled by a fraction of an inch. Leicester scores two and game over. I was so pissed off by the VAR decision, but come to think of it (and having time to cool off), we've been so lucky in the past and had VAR in our favor. This time we did not.

Looking at it the other way 'round, if the call for goal were to stand, we would never had this discussion. We would be happy celebration three points (most likely) and saluting VAR; again!

We need to get used to it that VAR is gonna favor or overrule. This is what everyone wanted

Not really...if it were the other way round and the goal stood, virtually everyone would see that picture with the lines and accept that Son was onside and nobody would be complaining - not even Leicester.

Either way - what’s done is done...time to move on (even though I’m stilled really pissed off about it)

 

[spud]

I noticed the smirk from the ref twat on Sky "saying Spurs have benefitted so we shouldn't moan when it goes the other way"

So that means because we have had the benefit of VAR confirming correct decisions, or overturning incorrect ones, that have 'favoured' us then we shouldn't complain when an obviously incorrect decision is allowed to stand to our detriment.

That is possibly the worst justification for excusing something that is wrong that I have ever heard. If it is the mindset of those in power at the PL and POGMOL (or whatever the fuck it is called) then god help us.