Spurs and VAR

[Trotter]

I assume you mean me

In respect of the weekend I feel the only decision VAR should definitely have interfered in was the Barnes foul by Norwich, should have been a penalty.
I feel maybe they should have asked the referee to look again at the Arsenal handball, I can certainly understand why the referee didn’t give it as the player had his arm out before the shot, and was bringing it back into his body, and was basically by his side, when he was hit, so didn’t make himself unnaturally bigger, and obviously he cannot just vanish into thin air, but my view is the majority of referees would consider he did have enough time to evade that.
In respect of our game thought VAR was correct in all cases, in fact thought the referee got basically all important decisions correct (after VAR interfered twice, and didn’t overrule on 3 other occasions, 2 possible red cards and a spurious penalty shout) however just like I did with Sterling on first day of the season, I feel there should be some tolerance due to technology issues on offside, however the clubs all signed up for this system, including offsides by millimetres before the season started, so we only have ourselves to blame.

 

[Shadydan]

I assume you mean me

In respect of the weekend I feel the only decision VAR should definitely have interfered in was the Barnes foul by Norwich, should have been a penalty.
I feel maybe they should have asked the referee to look again at the Arsenal handball, I can certainly understand why the referee didn’t give it as the player had his arm out before the shot, and was bringing it back into his body, and was basically by his side, when he was hit, so didn’t make himself unnaturally bigger, and obviously he cannot just vanish into thin air, but my view is the majority of referees would consider he did have enough time to evade that.
In respect of our game thought VAR was correct in all cases, however just like I did with Sterling on first day of the season, I feel there should be some tolerance due to technology issues on offside, however the clubs all signed up for this system, including offsides by millimetres before the season started, so we only have ourselves to blame.

Oh come off it sorry that's total bollocks and you know it ...it was a handball, he made himself bigger, you can see him move his arm towards the ball ffs

 

[John48]

Oh come off it sorry that's total bollocks and you know it ...it was a handball, he made himself bigger, you can see him move his arm towards the ball ffs

Only seen it once, but that was my though he moved his arm towards the ball.

 

[Trotter]

Oh come off it sorry that's total bollocks and you know it ...it was a handball, he made himself bigger, you can see him move his arm towards the ball ffs

I saw him move his arm away from being almost at the perpendicular, to be by his side.
I still think it was a penalty, but can understand why not given, which is why I would have liked him to have a second view.Dermot Gallagher on Sky just now doesn’t think penalty by the way.

 

[Hercules]

My simple views on VAR. Only use for clear and OBVIOUS! Not borderline, citeh’s goal (Sterling) should of stood against us, plus they should of had a pen off Lamela. According to maths geniuses it is almost impossible to be 100% spot on timing off side with technology they use. You have to me a minute millisecond accurate to judge when ball leaves feet, to run etc. And the only way you get point accuracy is to have every aspect of the player’s body, kit wear, ball etc, chipped, to be 100% spot. I believe if in line the goal should stand. Why da fek are we trying to turn the game into this farce? If you are going this way, why not make it robotic. Ludicrous

 

[Trotter]

My simple views on VAR. Only use for clear and OBVIOUS! Not borderline, citeh’s goal (Sterling) should of stood against us, plus they should of had a pen off Lamela. According to maths geniuses it is almost impossible to be 100% spot on timing off side with technology they use. You have to me a minute millisecond accurate to judge when ball leaves feet, to run etc. And the only way you get point accuracy is to have every aspect of the player’s body, kit wear, ball etc, chipped, to be 100% spot. I believe if in line the goal should stand. Why da fek are we trying to turn the game into this farce? If you are going this way, why not make it robotic. Ludicrous

I agree with you, but this is the system the clubs approved, and it was shown to them exactly how it would work in such cases. They really wanted a solution for matter of fact decisions only, and from my viewpoint feel this is much more matter of fact, than relying on assistant referees decisions (which would have awarded a goal to Leicester on Saturday, and we got a boost from that)
A small tolerance should be there though arguably for technology issues, but if you are a millimetre offside or yards offside, it is same offence, and no there has never been a law saying benefit of doubt of attackers, or clear daylight

 

[Hercules]

I agree with you, but this is the system the clubs approved, and it was shown to them exactly how it would work in such cases.

The offside one has to be reviewed per my comments for next season.

 

[Trotter]

The offside one has to be reviewed per my comments for next season.

If the clubs want to, they may be happy. It is the clubs that voted for this.
I can’t see FIFA changing laws to say, you are offside if more than say 5cm for a game which has VAR to account for technology, but offside stays as it is for all games without

 

[Hercules]

If the clubs want to, they may be happy. It is the clubs that voted for this.
I can’t see FIFA changing laws to say, you are offside if more than say 5cm for a game which has VAR to account for technology, but offside stays as it is for all games without

Valid points. I am frightened of where the game is going. The goal line one was brilliant. For very clear and very obvious (forgive me for sarcasm), VAR souls intercede. Like the packers pen Villa never got. You will know as an example ref, the advantage ALWAYS went to the attacker in borderline decisions. Clubs get things wrong, as we know. I support VAR, but only on ‘clear and obvious’. That alone they still cannot get right.

 

[markdadude]

It's simple guys. The fundamental question of when does VAR intervene is dealt with sensibly in all other sports... each party is awarded a set number of challenges over the game. It is up to each party to use their challenge wisely at the appropriate moment or risk losing them and be unable to challenge for the remainder or the game.

Second, because of the highly subjective nature of football refereeing over fouls and awarding of cards, there should be a voting panel (a jury) of non partisan trusted judges to ultimately decide the outcome when such a call is challenged. It would be sort of like how judges in boxing score each round, EXCEPT not obviously fixed as it is in boxing!

 

[Trotter]

It's simple guys. The fundamental question of when does VAR intervene is dealt with sensibly in all other sports... each party is awarded a set number of challenges over the game. It is up to each party to use their challenge wisely at the appropriate moment or risk losing them and be unable to challenge for the remainder or the game.

Second, because of the highly subjective nature of football refereeing over fouls and awarding of cards, there should be a voting panel (a jury) of non partisan trusted judges to ultimately decide the outcome when such a call is challenged. It would be sort of like how judges in boxing score each round, EXCEPT not obviously fixed as it is in boxing!

Welcome to 3 hour games of football, should we hold commercial breaks whilst all these reviews are happening ?

 

[midoNdefoe]

Exactly


Exactly my point previously. Not once has VAR been used to go against a referees decision in terms of a penalty. A few offsides where it can't be argued, then our one... But aside from that it seems you have to almost murder someone for VAR to intervene. I can't decide if it's arrogance of the FA to pretend the officials don't get decisions wrong, or ineptitude of the VAR teams. Either way, the technology brought in to eradicate contentious decisions has cocked things up royally.

I think that is the major problem. There has always been a level of protection for the referees in football, where on-field respect for officials is the lowest across all sports - no other sport is screaming at the officials tolerated - and it creates a need for that protection.
They have now created a system designed to help the referees which if anything, has exposed the mistakes they naturally make and rather than rectify them with the use of technology, they refuse to and it has compounded the frustration felt by fans by not overturning decisions in order to try and protect the integrity of the on-field officials.

In my opinion it’s part of the process of finding out how good our officials are. Hopefully in the long run it will weed out the worst ones and reinforce the good ones as we see them make more or less mistakes. But, for the FA/PL to ignore the technology in favour of attempting to maintain an air of infallibility of the referees is counter-productive and makes the game and officiating much worse...

 

[markdadude]

Welcome to 3 hour games of football, should we hold commercial breaks whilst all these reviews are happening .

No mate, maybe just 2 reviews to each team. Seriously, if Socrates did that hand ball against us, and nothing was given, you are not worried about the time it takes to make the right call, only that the right call is made

 

[SargeantMeatCurtains]

I don’t understand how, in games like cricket and tennis, umpires get a virtual simulation of ball tracking and yet with football all the referees get is a shit still photo from a camera nowhere near in line with play and Microsoft Paint to draw inaccurate lines on?

The technology used by the Premier League is so far from being fit for purpose it’s actually laughable. Added to the fact that the referees boy’s club are going to protect eachother’s integrity to the point where they are ignoring blatant on field errors and are essentially challenging the intelligence of every fan watching the game... We are six games into the season and already a system that is supposed to make the game fairer has cost us 4 points (one vs Newcastle and three vs Leicester). We’d be third in the table.

I hated the referees in this country before VAR. Imagine how I feel about them now.

 

[Trotter]

I don’t understand how, in games like cricket and tennis, umpires get a virtual simulation of ball tracking and yet with football all the referees get is a shit still photo from a camera nowhere near in line with play and Microsoft Paint to draw inaccurate lines on?

The technology used by the Premier League is so far from being fit for purpose it’s actually laughable. Added to the fact that the referees boy’s club are going to protect eachother’s integrity to the point where they are ignoring blatant on field errors and are essentially challenging the intelligence of every fan watching the game... We are six games into the season and already a system that is supposed to make the game fairer has cost us 4 points (one vs Newcastle and three vs Leicester). We’d be third in the table.

I hated the referees in this country before VAR. Imagine how I feel about them now.

Ok so in what you say it has cost us, you are forgetting it cancelled out a Leicester goal, and also a Manchester City goal then, and adding a subjective decision which the referee didn’t give. Ignoring a much more blatant subjective decision which wasn’t given against us, by Lamela

At the moment I feel it has actually gained us one point (vs Man City) over what we would have gained without it, and that is it, who knows what would have happened against Leicester if they went 1 up, and were well n top at that stage, that VAR disallowed goal, gave us momentum, just like they gained it from our disallowed goal.

 

[Shadydan]

I saw him move his arm away from being almost at the perpendicular, to be by his side.
I still think it was a penalty, but can understand why not given, which is why I would have liked him to have a second view.Dermot Gallagher on Sky just now doesn’t think penalty by the way.

10:15 he clearly moved his arm out.

https://oms.vidstreamup.com/player/html/Er11MjxnOg?popup=yes&autoplay=1

 

[Spurrific]

I assume you mean me

In respect of the weekend I feel the only decision VAR should definitely have interfered in was the Barnes foul by Norwich, should have been a penalty.
I feel maybe they should have asked the referee to look again at the Arsenal handball, I can certainly understand why the referee didn’t give it as the player had his arm out before the shot, and was bringing it back into his body, and was basically by his side, when he was hit, so didn’t make himself unnaturally bigger, and obviously he cannot just vanish into thin air, but my view is the majority of referees would consider he did have enough time to evade that.
In respect of our game thought VAR was correct in all cases, in fact thought the referee got basically all important decisions correct (after VAR interfered twice, and didn’t overrule on 3 other occasions, 2 possible red cards and a spurious penalty shout) however just like I did with Sterling on first day of the season, I feel there should be some tolerance due to technology issues on offside, however the clubs all signed up for this system, including offsides by millimetres before the season started, so we only have ourselves to blame.

Christ.

The problem is - they still can’t conclusively say that Son was offside - even after 4 minutes of reviewing. It was an abject failure of the system. I don’t see what you gain from trying to appear level-headed about it. There aren’t awards for “most rational poster on the Internet” ya know. It was a terrible decision.

Just read your subsequent post. You’re beyond help. Imagine comparing their ruled out goal to ours.

 

[Trotter]

Christ.

Very informative, so what do you think he got wrong then ?
Ok just seen you just edited your post to actually try and make a point

Their disallowed goal - correctly ruled out
Sissoko yellow card - correct, but not worthy of a red
Their player yellow card - correct, but not worthy of a red
Rose penalty shout - not even close, their player won ball and then Rose carried on running, and actually was the one that committed the offence
Our offside goal - correctly adjudged, but feel some tolerance needs to be added

 

[thebenjamin]

I'm already so bored of football due to this bullshit. Basically no point attending games any more. The entire basis of live football being better than TV is that celebrating a goal in the stadium is a great buzz. Now that's gone, there is literally no type of goal that isn't in danger of being ruled out, so there is no point ever celebrating. So no real point going through all the hassle and expense of attending games as you don't even get to see the replays. It's overnight turned football into an armchair viewer's sport.

 

[Spurrific]

Very informative, so what do you think he got wrong then ?

Their disallowed goal - correctly ruled out
Sissoko yellow card - correct, but not worthy of a red
Their player yellow card - correct, but not worthy of a red
Rose penalty shout - not even close, their player won ball and then Rose carried on running, and actually was the one that committed the offence
Our offside goal - correctly adjudged, but feel some tolerance needs to be added

There is absolutely no way our goal should have been ruled out. There STILL isn’t any clear evidence Son was offside. They had 7 men offside for their one. Not comparable. We were 2-0 up but had a legitimate goal ruled out, then lost the game. We’re not wrong for being annoyed about it.