Poch...Please stop playing 4231

[Gassin's finest]

People need to get away from putting too much stock in the starting formation. It's just the way they are lined up on the team-sheet. The system is the key, and ours sees our players roles' far more dynamic than a set position.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Not success.
Success is quantifiable achievement. Not an opionion.

I agree with you. But I tried to say that in a subtle way.
I think we've been good. I don't think we've been successful yet.

 

[maltahotspur]

Defensively we have been very solid for a long while now. Liverpool on the other hand, are not strong defensively and I feel that we stand a fair chance of scoring a couple against them.
I am pretty sure that if we can perform to our best at the back, we have a good chance to beat Liverpool. MoPo has repeatedly stated that formations are not so important. What is important he says is that all the players fight and plays with passion and intensity from the start. If we do that, I see no problem in getting a result.

 

[Hoops]

3-4-3 seemed a good system but a lot of people seem to forget that all our success the last 2 seasons has been 4-2-3-1 and have 3 games with 3 at the back so let's not get carried away I'm sure poch knows when to use it and when not

Yes but Dier offered things Wanyama doesnt. Wanyama kills that system because he is so useless going forward

 

[Hoops]

People need to get away from putting too much stock in the starting formation. It's just the way they are lined up on the team-sheet. The system is the key, and ours sees our players roles' far more dynamic than a set position.

How can you not put stock into a starting formation? Thats 50 percent of football management?

Look at Chelsea this season.

 

[tiger666]

How can you not put stock into a starting formation? Thats 50 percent of football management?

Look at Chelsea this season.

You've misunderstood what he's written.

 

[eViL]

Yes but Dier offered things Wanyama doesnt. Wanyama kills that system because he is so useless going forward

You finally start a decent thread and then come out with this bullshit. Wanyama's been a revelation this season.

 

[alex3]

Yes but Dier offered things Wanyama doesnt. Wanyama kills that system because he is so useless going forward

Can't even be bothered to argue about that

 

[Hoops]

You finally start a decent thread and then come out with this bullshit. Wanyama's been a revelation this season.

Good player, deployed in a system that doesnt suit him

 

[Hoops]

2-0 already. Like I said, change it back to 343

 

[Tucker]

2-0 already. Like I said, change it back to 343

He's dropped a bollock today. We will be lucky to still be in this at half time.

 

[rabbikeane]

More down to personel than formation. Big part of what made us great was Rose pushing forward on the left,
343 won't do us any good if it's Davies running out there.

 

[SugarRay]

Rose is so key to our game. Walker is important too but at least Trippier is a sort of impersonation. Davies is now thing like Rose at all. It's like gearing your system up with someone like Andy Carroll upfront only to have Defoe as his replacement and expect the same role to be played!

 

[Neon_Knight_]

People need to get away from putting too much stock in the starting formation. It's just the way they are lined up on the team-sheet. The system is the key, and ours sees our players roles' far more dynamic than a set position.

This was more true last season, with Alderweireld and Vertonghen at CB and Dier at CDM. Dier would seamlessly slot into CB for a significant amount of pretty much every game, as/when required, so we constantly shifted between two/three CBs. If we started with three at the back, Eriksen or Ali would drop slightly deeper and Dembele would play as normal (i.e. neither plays as a CDM).

I would say that when Wanyama sits deep to allow the fullbacks to bomb forwards, he sits in front of the CBs, not amongst them in the same way as Dier previously did. Therefore, if we start with two CBs, we play with two CBs throughout the game. Ali and Eriksen tend to stay further up field, as Wanyama isn't playing as far behind them as Dier would have been, so this can be a positive. It does potentially leave us more vulnerable to counter attacks though, as the RCB & LCB have to remain more central when the fullbacks push out.

Last season, we never played with three CBs plus Dier at CDM. This season's system with three at the back is designed around also having a deep CDM, to allow the fullbacks and the two AMs to play even higher up. THis is why we can be effective in attack, even though we have one fewer attacking players on the pitch. When we play 4-2-3-1 this season, we are playing the exact same system as last year, and the effect is quite different to the alternative formation.

It's only a subtle difference, but it is enough of a difference to impact upon results. I think we should be using both formations, depending on our opposition. When everyone is fit, it will be easier for Poch to switch the formation with a tactical substitute, without risking weakening the team.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

More down to personel than formation. Big part of what made us great was Rose pushing forward on the left,
343 won't do us any good if it's Davies running out there.

I think it would (and has at times). We would simply attack far more down the right than the left, compared to when Rose is playing. The LCB of a defensive three would give more cover in behind Davies, so it's less of an issue if he gets caught high up the pitch.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

I had almost forgotten how much I dislike our version of this formation. It causes so many imbalances for us.

 

[Lufti]

The problem is that Wanyama and Dembele don't work as a 2 in this formation. In a 3-4-3 where Walker and Rose are always beyond them they have a constant out ball and it's not too risky as there's still 4-5 of them back. In that formation they're great. When it's 4-2-3-1 the onus is more on Wanyama and Dembele to make things happen and they're both pretty poor passers. Sure Walker and Rose are there but a misplaced pass out to the wing can quickly lead to a good chance for the opposition as we saw today

 

[nightgoat]

The problem is that Wanyama and Dembele don't work as a 2 in this formation. In a 3-4-3 where Walker and Rose are always beyond them they have a constant out ball and it's not too risky as there's still 4-5 of them back. In that formation they're great. When it's 4-2-3-1 the onus is more on Wanyama and Dembele to make things happen and they're both pretty poor passers. Sure Walker and Rose are there but a misplaced pass out to the wing can quickly lead to a good chance for the opposition as we saw today

In the first half Wanyama's passing accuracy was little over 50%. For someone whose job is to win the ball and distribute it simply to more skilled teammates, that's utterly diabolical. He'd already farted away possession simply about four times before doing it lead to the first goal. Dembele was up at about 91%.

 

[Bobbins]

Today wasn't about the formation, it was about the tactics. Coming out and playing high up the field at Anfield was exactly what Liverpool wanted us to do and exactly what all their recent opponents have avoided doing, which is why they smashed the shit out of us today after previously failing to win in five.

 

[ardiles]

It was a result of a combination of several factors that caused our poor play and final result yesterday. I'd say missing important first team players, wrong tactics used, timing and use of proper subs for this match were part of the reasons. It was unfortunate that the stars were all aligned (albeit in the wrong sense) for us yesterday.

Our most recently used 3-4-3 formation has been highly successful however we need our dynamic FBs (Rose & Walker) for this formation. Trippier can, on a lesser scale, cover for Walker but Davies doesn't suit this play.

Giving our subs only a few minutes of game time would not have changed the game. In addition, I don't see the reason of having GKN on the bench if he's hardly used. I hope we sell Sissoko in the summer as he doesn't seem to fit the team play.

The players as well as Poch have to share the blame yesterday.