Let's All Laugh At... Let's all laugh at Chelsea thread

[Tucker]

Moving this to here so as to not drag this one off topic https://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/realistic-expectations-for-2020-21.142507/page-22




I can - it's just 2020's version of 2013's summer transfer window.

Sign a load of names that Football Manager fanboys can touch their genitals over, act dumbfounded when all the young players who worked theirs off in the previous season get miffed that their progression is now blocked by new signings, wonder why there's suddenly no squad cohesion, and then sit back and watch it unfold as an inexperience manager fails to control the friction.

Every season one team has a go at fantasy football and, more often than not, it ends in tears.

This is their senior squad:

Goalkeepers
Kepa / Caballero

Defenders
Miazga / Rudiger / Alonso / Christensen / Zouma / James / Azpilcueta / Tomori / Emersen Palmeri / Clarke-Salter / Baba Rahman / Ampadu / Zappacosta

Midfielders
Kante / Barkley / Loftus-Cheek / Ziyech / Jorginho / Bakayoko / Kovacic / Mount / Gilmour / Drinkwater / Van Ginkel

Forwards
Werner / Abraham / Giroud / Hudson-Odoi / Batshuayi / Piazon / Musonda / Kenedy / Pulisic


So, basically, they are stacking their team where they don't need it.

Granted they are going to be selling some players but...



Looking at the above, do they? People complain that we struggle to get rid of deadwood but look at that squad!

Drinkwater: Paid £35m (plus contract) and he's played 23 games for them in 3 years
Kepa: Supposedly £71.6m and he's considered their weakest link
Caballero: People say they'd be "terrified" with Hart in goal, but Caballero is the backup to their liability and he's hardly reliable himself
Kenedy: Still knocking around after 5 seasons.
Van Ginkel: 28 in December and he's played 4 games for them in 7 seasons
Bakayoko: Cost £40m and he's played 43 games in 3 seasons
Zappacosta: Cost nearly £30m 3 seasons ago and was basically a conte buy that's not been fancied since.
Batshuayi: Another £33m or so that they clearly can't move on.
Rahman: Paid somewhere between £14m and £22m for him 5 years ago and he's not been wanted
Piazon: Paid about £10m for him years ago and have basiaclly never used him (27 in January)

That's just a cursory glance - just imagine what wages all these £30m players they have knocking about unused are drawing.

Even trimming their squad to a realistic level (ignoring the obvious deadwood):

Goalkeepers
Kepa / Caballero

Defenders
Usual Chelsea: Rudiger / Alonso / Christensen / Zouma / Azpilcueta / Emersen Palmeri
Frank's Youth: Clarke-Salter / Ampadu / James / Tomori / Miazga
Deadwood: Zappacosta / Baba Rahman

Midfielders
Usual Chelsea: Kante / Barkley / Ziyech / Jorginho / Kovacic
Frank's Youth: Loftus-Cheek / Mount / Gilmour
Deadwood: Drinkwater / Van Ginkel / Bakayoko

Forwards
Usual Chelsea: Werner / Giroud / Pulisic
Frank's Youth: Hudson-Odoi / Abraham
Deadwood: Batshuayi / Musonda / Piazon / Kenedy


So basically, it seems like there is a clear problem in that they have at least 9 'first team' players to move on, have bought an entire team that is the 'Chelsea of years gone by' (e.g. star names), but that has blocked off their 'future' players like Hudson-Odoi, Abraham, RLC, Mount, Gilmour, James, Tomori etc.
That's important because they were part of the success of last season, so it looks like Lampard has an impossible job keeping all the players happy.

Beyond all that, let's believe they are looking to bring in Havertz, Chilwell and Silva. It's madness. They will still need to sort out a goalkeeper or two, as well!

Logically everything you’ve said makes perfect sense. However, this is Chelsea, they seem to thrive on the chaos. How many managers have they had in the last ten years? Yet they still consistently succeed. They have a strategy of throwing enough money at the squad and hoping it works (sadly it generally does) they’ll then balance the books by exploiting the loan system.

Logic doesn’t apply to the financially doped sides like Chelsea and City.

Who needs a consistent transfer strategy when you can just cheat?

 

[sausage]

Logically everything you’ve said makes perfect sense. However, this is Chelsea, they seem to thrive on the chaos. How many managers have they had in the last ten years? Yet they still consistently succeed. They have a strategy of throwing enough money at the squad and hoping it works (sadly it generally does) they’ll then balance the books by exploiting the loan system.

Logic doesn’t apply to the financially doped sides like Chelsea and City.

Who needs a consistent transfer strategy when you can just cheat?

I guess so, but they have proved it's not "sustainable". Their transfer policy these days is an adrenaline shot. It's like people who take anabolic steroids - as soon as you stop, you'll just shrink back.

We're going for the natural route - it's harder work with slower results, but more reliable.

 

['O Zio]

Moving this to here so as to not drag this one off topic https://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/realistic-expectations-for-2020-21.142507/page-22




I can - it's just 2020's version of 2013's summer transfer window.

Sign a load of names that Football Manager fanboys can touch their genitals over, act dumbfounded when all the young players who worked theirs off in the previous season get miffed that their progression is now blocked by new signings, wonder why there's suddenly no squad cohesion, and then sit back and watch it unfold as an inexperience manager fails to control the friction.

Every season one team has a go at fantasy football and, more often than not, it ends in tears.

This is their senior squad:

Goalkeepers
Kepa / Caballero

Defenders
Miazga / Rudiger / Alonso / Christensen / Zouma / James / Azpilcueta / Tomori / Emersen Palmeri / Clarke-Salter / Baba Rahman / Ampadu / Zappacosta

Midfielders
Kante / Barkley / Loftus-Cheek / Ziyech / Jorginho / Bakayoko / Kovacic / Mount / Gilmour / Drinkwater / Van Ginkel

Forwards
Werner / Abraham / Giroud / Hudson-Odoi / Batshuayi / Piazon / Musonda / Kenedy / Pulisic


So, basically, they are stacking their team where they don't need it.

Granted they are going to be selling some players but...



Looking at the above, do they? People complain that we struggle to get rid of deadwood but look at that squad!

Drinkwater: Paid £35m (plus contract) and he's played 23 games for them in 3 years
Kepa: Supposedly £71.6m and he's considered their weakest link
Caballero: People say they'd be "terrified" with Hart in goal, but Caballero is the backup to their liability and he's hardly reliable himself
Kenedy: Still knocking around after 5 seasons.
Van Ginkel: 28 in December and he's played 4 games for them in 7 seasons
Bakayoko: Cost £40m and he's played 43 games in 3 seasons
Zappacosta: Cost nearly £30m 3 seasons ago and was basically a conte buy that's not been fancied since.
Batshuayi: Another £33m or so that they clearly can't move on.
Rahman: Paid somewhere between £14m and £22m for him 5 years ago and he's not been wanted
Piazon: Paid about £10m for him years ago and have basiaclly never used him (27 in January)

That's just a cursory glance - just imagine what wages all these £30m players they have knocking about unused are drawing.

Even trimming their squad to a realistic level (ignoring the obvious deadwood):

Goalkeepers
Kepa / Caballero

Defenders
Usual Chelsea: Rudiger / Alonso / Christensen / Zouma / Azpilcueta / Emersen Palmeri
Frank's Youth: Clarke-Salter / Ampadu / James / Tomori / Miazga
Deadwood: Zappacosta / Baba Rahman

Midfielders
Usual Chelsea: Kante / Barkley / Ziyech / Jorginho / Kovacic
Frank's Youth: Loftus-Cheek / Mount / Gilmour
Deadwood: Drinkwater / Van Ginkel / Bakayoko

Forwards
Usual Chelsea: Werner / Giroud / Pulisic
Frank's Youth: Hudson-Odoi / Abraham
Deadwood: Batshuayi / Musonda / Piazon / Kenedy


So basically, it seems like there is a clear problem in that they have at least 9 'first team' players to move on, have bought an entire team that is the 'Chelsea of years gone by' (e.g. star names), but that has blocked off their 'future' players like Hudson-Odoi, Abraham, RLC, Mount, Gilmour, James, Tomori etc.
That's important because they were part of the success of last season, so it looks like Lampard has an impossible job keeping all the players happy.

Beyond all that, let's believe they are looking to bring in Havertz, Chilwell and Silva. It's madness. They will still need to sort out a goalkeeper or two, as well!

I've never even heard of Van Ginkel. I genuinely just googled him to check it wasn't AutoCorrect on your phone or something

 

[Danny1]

So they are one step away from spending £80m on Havertz. I thought when Lampard joined his philosophy was going to be about bringing through the many prospects they currently have. Seems like that lasted no time whatsoever with both Abraham & Mount not seeing much game time.

With Pulisic, Ziyech, Havertz & Werner, the younger players won't get much of a look in.

You have to question why they have bought 4 attacking players when it's clear that their problems are in the defensive side of the game. In midfield, it appears that Kante is no longer the player he once was, Jorginho is proving to be a bit average, Kovacic isn't defensive at all. In defense, they have Alonso who isn't a defender, Azpilicueta who is ageing badly, and Rudiger, Zouma & Christensen who are all just a bit average! In goal there doesnt need to be any more said!

 

[Maxtremist]

They are buying some great players to go on top of a decent squad in the first place so naturally I am some level of envious/jealous of what they're doing.

What I just don't get is how it all works/fits together. Like sure, it's Chelsea and they'll play in some many competitions and the fuckers will (as history annoyingly seems to suggest) figure it out. But I really am struggling to fathom how it fits together.

Attacking and midfield wise, if/when Havertz they'll have: Werner, Abraham, Giroud, Pulisic, Ziyech, Havertz, Hudson Odoi, Batshuyai, Mount, Barkley, Gilmour, Kante, Kovacic, Loftus Cheek, Drinkwater, Bakayoko, Kennedy.

I just don't see how that can work and how you can keep them all happy. They'll have to sell and I'd wanna say they'll have to sell cheaply but the fuckers will get money for 'em cause that's what they do.

 

[thebenjamin]

They are buying some great players to go on top of a decent squad in the first place so naturally I am some level of envious/jealous of what they're doing.

What I just don't get is how it all works/fits together. Like sure, it's Chelsea and they'll play in some many competitions and the fuckers will (as history annoyingly seems to suggest) figure it out. But I really am struggling to fathom how it fits together.

Attacking and midfield wise, if/when Havertz they'll have: Werner, Abraham, Giroud, Pulisic, Ziyech, Havertz, Hudson Odoi, Batshuyai, Mount, Barkley, Gilmour, Kante, Kovacic, Loftus Cheek, Drinkwater, Bakayoko, Kennedy.

I just don't see how that can work and how you can keep them all happy. They'll have to sell and I'd wanna say they'll have to sell cheaply but the fuckers will get money for 'em cause that's what they do.

I imagine they'll loan the ones they don't want and get them off the wage bill while sustaining / raising their value

 

[Maxtremist]

I imagine they'll loan the ones they don't want and get them off the wage bill while sustaining / raising their value

I can't remember what happened with it exactly but there's been a lot of talk in the number of players you can loan out being reduced in the near future so not sure if Chelsea can keep doing that

Clubs face loan restrictions under new plans

Restrictions on the number of loan deals clubs can agree are set to come into force next season.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[RichieS]

I can't remember what happened with it exactly but there's been a lot of talk in the number of players you can loan out being reduced in the near future so not sure if Chelsea can keep doing that

Clubs face loan restrictions under new plans

Restrictions on the number of loan deals clubs can agree are set to come into force next season.

www.bbc.co.uk

Ultimately none of it matters because the recent CAS ruling on Man City means that Abramovich can just keep adding zeros to the interest free loan.

 

[Phomesy]

This might have been addressed already - and I know that FFP is massive figleaf - BUT - how are Chelsea able to spend this much and stay within FFP?

 

[ajspurs]

So they are one step away from spending £80m on Havertz. I thought when Lampard joined his philosophy was going to be about bringing through the many prospects they currently have. Seems like that lasted no time whatsoever with both Abraham & Mount not seeing much game time.

With Pulisic, Ziyech, Havertz & Werner, the younger players won't get much of a look in.

You have to question why they have bought 4 attacking players when it's clear that their problems are in the defensive side of the game. In midfield, it appears that Kante is no longer the player he once was, Jorginho is proving to be a bit average, Kovacic isn't defensive at all. In defense, they have Alonso who isn't a defender, Azpilicueta who is ageing badly, and Rudiger, Zouma & Christensen who are all just a bit average! In goal there doesnt need to be any more said!

Chilwell and Silva will help with their defensive problems and who's to say their spending will stop there. They are literally going football mananger this window.

 

[RichieS]

This might have been addressed already - and I know that FFP is massive figleaf - BUT - how are Chelsea able to spend this much and stay within FFP?

FFP is dead.

 

[Marty]

This might have been addressed already - and I know that FFP is massive figleaf - BUT - how are Chelsea able to spend this much and stay within FFP?

FFP rules have been relaxed for this financial year due to covid. And after CAS publish the full verdict in the City case it might be dead forever.

 

[DJS]

And families will still send their kids to Chelsea even though they have next to no chance of breaking through.

 

[Japhet]

This might have been addressed already - and I know that FFP is massive figleaf - BUT - how are Chelsea able to spend this much and stay within FFP?

They've just had a transfer ban, so can effectively add the money they would have spent then to what they spend now. Also, the figures are averaged out over 3 years (I think), so having spent none for a while they can now go nuts. Also, Covid and no gate receipts will screw all the figures for this season at least.

 

[panoma]

This might have been addressed already - and I know that FFP is massive figleaf - BUT - how are Chelsea able to spend this much and stay within FFP?

FFP is only for the lesser clubs not the rich ones.

 

[Marty]

FFP is only for the lesser clubs not the rich ones.

The main usefulness of FFP is definitely preventing smaller clubs going out of business. Some sort of similar measure needs to be kept even if the big clubs ensure the concept goes tits up.

 

[dtxspurs]

I guess so, but they have proved it's not "sustainable". Their transfer policy these days is an adrenaline shot. It's like people who take anabolic steroids - as soon as you stop, you'll just shrink back.

We're going for the natural route - it's harder work with slower results, but more reliable.

Wait, how we conduct our transfer business vs Chelsea is more reliable? In terms of what exactly?

 

[sausage]

Wait, how we conduct our transfer business vs Chelsea is more reliable? In terms of what exactly?

We generally have a style of play and a consistent way of building a squad. When we have a bad season, we're finishing in the top 6 still. When we have a good season, we're finishing in the top four. We don't really meander too far from our average.

Chelsea throw a bunch of players together and change manager constantly, with no effort really to use their academy or develop any sort of identity. They also tend to have to spend a lot of money consistently to keep them performing - not just 'avoiding a stale squad', but it's remarkable how crap they can be so fast when things don't do their way. When they have a good season, they're winning the league. When they have a bad season, they're anywhere from 5-10th. Then the next guy doesn't want the players the last guy had, so they're either sold cheap or kept for ages drawing wages etc.

Secondly, financials. We have always made sure we could afford what we're doing on our own two feet, as a club, CL or not. I don't think you could say the same about Chelsea - despite the stadium debt, we still have that as an asset. Football aside, it seems to be capable as a standalone event. What's Stamford Bridge worth, with the weird pitch ownership etc? Can they even use it for other events? How much is the club worth in a business sense if the arse fell out of football?

 

[Ionman34]

So they are one step away from spending £80m on Havertz. I thought when Lampard joined his philosophy was going to be about bringing through the many prospects they currently have. Seems like that lasted no time whatsoever with both Abraham & Mount not seeing much game time.

With Pulisic, Ziyech, Havertz & Werner, the younger players won't get much of a look in.

You have to question why they have bought 4 attacking players when it's clear that their problems are in the defensive side of the game. In midfield, it appears that Kante is no longer the player he once was, Jorginho is proving to be a bit average, Kovacic isn't defensive at all. In defense, they have Alonso who isn't a defender, Azpilicueta who is ageing badly, and Rudiger, Zouma & Christensen who are all just a bit average! In goal there doesnt need to be any more said!

He's converting Mount and Abraham into centre halves.

True story...

 

[emiley heskey]

So they are one step away from spending £80m on Havertz. I thought when Lampard joined his philosophy was going to be about bringing through the many prospects they currently have. Seems like that lasted no time whatsoever with both Abraham & Mount not seeing much game time.

With Pulisic, Ziyech, Havertz & Werner, the younger players won't get much of a look in.

You have to question why they have bought 4 attacking players when it's clear that their problems are in the defensive side of the game. In midfield, it appears that Kante is no longer the player he once was, Jorginho is proving to be a bit average, Kovacic isn't defensive at all. In defense, they have Alonso who isn't a defender, Azpilicueta who is ageing badly, and Rudiger, Zouma & Christensen who are all just a bit average! In goal there doesnt need to be any more said!

Pulisic came in as hazard replacement, ziyech came in as pedro replacement, werner came in as morata replacement and havertz coming in as willian replacement ... Hudson odoi, abraham, Mount, Loftus Cheek will still get plenty of matches as there will be lot of games to be played this season .... Last 2 seasons they let go willian, pedro, hazard, morata and they just replaced all of them at once ... They still have giroud as experienced striker role and batshuyayi will get sold or loaned out may be ...