Lacking Guile In CM?

[nedley]

Think people also play down Dier's ability on the ball, the kid has great vision and as he get increasingly confident with that we'll see him excell even further.

As others have said I think the guille is intended to come from the front three.

This is very true.

 

[Japhet]

Can only hope that Harry Winks can step up if he's given the chance. Dier showed some nice touches at the Euros so may well develop that side of his game. I'd have loved us to go for Kovacic in the transfer window, or failing that a shot at Tielemans. Think we could have used 25m better than Sissoko but I guess we'll wait and see. Thought Winks looked excellent in pre season though.

 

[PMS]

Think people also play down Dier's ability on the ball, the kid has great vision and as he get increasingly confident with that we'll see him excell even further.

As others have said I think the guille is intended to come from the front three.

Just thinking this.

 

[ultimateloner]

True but i'm not necessarily talking about a 30 yard ball to Kane i'm referring to the intelligence to slide the ball into Eriksen or Lamela (or Kane) on the floor that really opens up the pitch. Or a sprayed ball out wide. Can't see either of Dier / Wanyama or Sissoko doing that with great, consistent effect, which does negate some of the full-backs effectiveness if you can't pick out that bursting run.

Eriksen drops deep to do this alot of the time anyway.

I agree with you that we can do with more incisiveness in CM but I don't see a realistic target that comes with both steel and guile. If I were to pick between the 2 I'd take steel everyday; i think most PL coaches would too. PL generally just gives you so little time on the ball I don't think its worth it. Fabregas doesn't start for Chelsea anymore and he is one of the best a this.

 

[NEVILLEB]

The big problem against Liverpool was that Poch foolishly moved Dier to right back.

He holds everything together for us and I hope Poch learned a lesson.

Hodgson took him off at half time against Iceland and we fell apart.

 

[theShiznit]

I worry more about the team dynamic and movement, for the first few games there has been a lot of static play, slow passing and movement into space has been absent leaving the man on the ball left with a percentage ball forward, going backwards or beating a man.

We have seen Poch/DL/ trying to sign quick tricky wingers, and I wonder if this is a departure from quick "vertical passing" If this is a conscious move towards individuals creating chances over a pass and move system I would be upset as that's not my type of football.

Where is the zip in the passing, popping off one-twos with constant movement, that's what we need against bus parkers, not a bloke that can run a bit faster (Ask Arse fans if Walcott is the answer for bus parkers )

Dembele is not the answer, he can carry the ball further up the pitch but his use of it when he beats the man is sorely lacking.

Winks has potential but is untested and Carroll for all his physical deficiencies has an array of passing and quickness of thought that makes him a rare commodity in our squad.

Our dynamism atm seems to come from Lamela, but as he plays at 100 mph every moment of every game it's a bit hit and miss.

It will certainly be interesting to see how the new boys fit in and what it does for team shape/play. Not seen GKN but MS is another powerhouse, maybe with a bit more acceleration than we have...

 

[Pellshek]

Where's Manchester United's midfield guile? When Jose was talking about Scweinsteiger last week, he name-checked his top midfielders:

- Mkhataryan
- Schneiderlein
- Pogba
- Fellaini
- Herrara
- Carrick
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...ted-news-Jose-Mourinho-Bastian-Schweinsteiger

All outstanding players, but none exactly a Xabi Alonso, Andrea Pirlo or Moussa Dembele type.

I don't disagree with OP, but I'm not sure it's fatal for the way Poch plays.

 

[rossdapep]

I think it's pretty obvious that poch is making us a solid unit, especially in midfield, where the strategy will be for the midfield runners to carry the ball to our more creative attacking mids. Its not modric beautiful but I sense we will counter attack much quicker than previously whilst attempt to bulldoze more stubborn teams.

Would love that deep lying playmaker but we may have to wait a while.

 

[BedfordshireSpud]

I'm looking forward to seeing Marcus Edwards get some minutes on the pitch as the season progresses, especially if he gets a bit stronger. He has sublime vision and wonderful control of a pass.

 

[beats1]

Or, you know, just play Dembele when he's done his suspension...

Judging by his performance in the Belgium game dont expect him to be the same dembele that left us

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Most of them have gone to Italy but Coric is still at Dinamo.. I'm sure his name will feature prominently in January.

As for Spurs, it's too soon to tell. Eriksen and Dembele are silky players. Sissoko and Wanyama are strong players. Dier and Alli can be both, Lamela as well. N'Koudou is an unknown. Rose and Walker will be very important in any formation and provide width and pace. We need to find a way of getting Kane and Janssen into scoring positions because so far, chances have been few and far between - especially for Kane. Janssen could/should have scored a couple by now.

Most of the games in the PL can be won with pace and power but we do definitely have players to unlock the deep-lying defensive teams. Just now have players to out battle them as well.

You make it sounds like Dembele isn't strong.

 

[Sweech]

Judging by his performance in the Belgium game dont expect him to be the same dembele that left us

Judging anyone by an international game is a fool's errand.

Especially a Belgian game - Unless you're telling me all those players are now suddenly poor.

Also, given that's Dembele's first game action in quite a long time I'd expect some rust.

 

[beats1]

Judging anyone by an international game is a fool's errand.

Especially a Belgian game - Unless you're telling me all those players are now suddenly poor.

Also, given that's Dembele's first game action in quite a long time I'd expect some rust.

The point is he will be very rusty and he has had no preseason

Also he isn't going to be that playmaker that the OP stated anyway

 

[Sweech]

The point is he will be very rusty and he has had no preseason

Also he isn't going to be that playmaker that the OP stated anyway

He may be rusty, although I expect him to play an U23 game to get back up to speed as well. Either way we need to play him to shake off the rust, so it's best that it gets over and done with.

You're right that he isn't the type of player the OP asked for, but your post wasn't really about that.

 

[Kspur]

I think it's ideal for Dembele to have had a rest after a long season and the euros.

 

[talbot64]

Suspect Poch agreed with the opening post. I feel Son and Carroll would have been sacrificed for a player who could play attacking midfield and drop back and dictate play in a midfield 2 as well (basically a Modric) I think Coric was the option but he turned down everyone. I hope/assume this will be revisited in January

 

[Vincent30]

But attacking wise last year we were fine and finsihed in our highest position, the problem isn't the guile/creativity in our team, we have 3 or 4 players that can really play a pass and are intelligent players. The main problem has been runners in behind, most of of attacking players face the ball and want it to feet, apart from Alli. Add No Kan/Sissoko to that and we might start to see more guile and creativity in our team, becasue pace creates space.

 

[Cravenspurs]

Where's Manchester United's midfield guile? When Jose was talking about Scweinsteiger last week, he name-checked his top midfielders:

- Mkhataryan
- Schneiderlein
- Pogba
- Fellaini
- Herrara
- Carrick
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...ted-news-Jose-Mourinho-Bastian-Schweinsteiger

All outstanding players, but none exactly a Xabi Alonso, Andrea Pirlo or Moussa Dembele type.

I don't disagree with OP, but I'm not sure it's fatal for the way Poch plays.

For me they have way more guile or ability to spray the ball around.

Mkhhataryn - finds a pass to open play consistently

Schneiderlin - sprays balls and cuts with vertical balls on the floor

Pogba - umm yeah he can pass very well

Fellaini - nothing to see here

Harrera - has some decent vision in the attacking third

Carrick - great passing from the back to the front

And you also left out what I think OP was talking about in terms of guile which is either the ability to open up teams parking the bus with creative short passing and quick ball movement or passing from the CM2 that is quick, vertical, and forward looking.

As of right now we have one player that is great at straying verticals and diagonals and that is Toby. Being our CB he isn't exactly going to move forward.

And in our attacking third I think we have guile in Eriksen and Lamela and a bit in Kane, but outside they we don't have a huge amount of creativity. Dele tried it but his touch usually lets him down.

But as for ManU they have Mata, Rooney, Zlatan and the others mentioned above to bring creativity and guile into the discussion. For me we just don't have that in full force.

 

[wingvaldsen]

I just want Dembele back.

 

[Sweech]

For me they have way more guile or ability to spray the ball around.

Mkhhataryn - finds a pass to open play consistently

Schneiderlin - sprays balls and cuts with vertical balls on the floor

Pogba - umm yeah he can pass very well

Fellaini - nothing to see here

Harrera - has some decent vision in the attacking third

Carrick - great passing from the back to the front

And you also left out what I think OP was talking about in terms of guile which is either the ability to open up teams parking the bus with creative short passing and quick ball movement or passing from the CM2 that is quick, vertical, and forward looking.

As of right now we have one player that is great at straying verticals and diagonals and that is Toby. Being our CB he isn't exactly going to move forward.

And in our attacking third I think we have guile in Eriksen and Lamela and a bit in Kane, but outside they we don't have a huge amount of creativity. Dele tried it but his touch usually lets him down.

But as for ManU they have Mata, Rooney, Zlatan and the others mentioned above to bring creativity and guile into the discussion. For me we just don't have that in full force.

Dier has shown he can play the same balls that Alderweireld has (Wimmer has shown some of this ability as well).