Jose Mourinho

[Monkey boy]

Your post about what their fans said about him being the as we are now, was very telling.

Yep and as much as i hate to agree with them but both Jason Cundy and Andy Goldstein predicted how it will go with an eerily sense of accuracy. I remember their words on the day he got appointed were that by the time he leaves his post there will just be a massive cloud hanging over EVERYONE at the club, from the fans, to the media teams and players. He just somehow sucks the life out of the football club. As much as i didnt want it to happen and felt quite smug during those opening couple of weeks at how refreshing it was seeing him smiling and looking mischievous in press conferences, that is the only way to describe how im feeling as a fan right now. That there is a big dark cloud hanging over my love affair with Tottenham.

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

That’s literally the least aggressive I’ve ever seen somebody punch something

 

[yankspurs]

Spurs will pay much LESS than £30million if they sack Jose Mourinho

EXCLUSIVE BY SAMI MOKBEL: The Spurs boss is under pressure following Sunday's disappointing 2-2 draw at relegation-threatened Newcastle as he aims to rescue an initially promising season.

www.dailymail.co.uk

So if we finish 9th or 10th we still have to pay the man £30m to sack him? Lol the man has FLEECED levy.

 

[Ashley1974]

The club's probably as toxic as its been but its very amicable in here today.

General acceptance that it's a matter of when not if now?

Exactly what I was thinking reading through

 

[SUIYHA]

• Alli - Two time PFA Team of the Season and two time PFA Young Player of the Year - was widely considered as one of the hottest young talents in the country and had been one of the most important players in our most consistent run of league finishes of the past 60 years.
  
  
• Winks - Had forced his way into the Spurs and England starting XI by dominating the midfield in big games, including twice against Real Madrid in the Champions League and against Spain in the Nations League - just needed to get a run of staying fit to really kick on.
  
  
• Dier - A first team starter for multiple seasons, either at CB, DM or even at RB, in the strongest Tottenham defence of all time. Linked with a £50m move to Bayern Munich by more than one outlet. Captained his country.
  
  
• Sanchez - A £42m signing, then our transfer record, who was so calm, composed and solid at the back in his first season that he earned himself a new contract at the end of it. He'd been so effective in wins over Real Madrid, Dortmund, Liverpool, at Stamford Bridge and in the North London Derby that people were making comparisons with Ledley, and some even said that we'd made a better signing than Liverpool had made in Van Dijk.
  
  
• Sissoko - When Son was announced as the winner of our 2019 Player of the Season award, the WHL crowd started singing Sissoko's name as many felt he'd been our most consistent player that year. He made it into UEFA's official Champions League Squad of the Season and has more caps for France than the likes of Emmanuel Petit or Ngolo Kante (and could quite easily catch Makelele and Platini), with that France side being arguably the strongest international side in the world in the last five years having reached their last two major finals.
  
  
• Bergwijn - Named by UEFA as the best player at the U17 Euros, had been a regular in the PSV starting XI since he was a teenager and now made his way into the Netherlands full international starting XI. Made a bright start with us by scored in each of his first three PL games at WHL, including openers against Man City and Man Utd.
  
  
• Vinicius - Had just won the Bola de Prata (Portuguese version of golden boot) when we signed him
  
  
• Doherty - Believe he won an award naming him as Wolves' best player of the decade. Just read this - https://www.expressandstar.com/spor...tys-stats-deliver-the-wolves-feelgood-factor/ - I remember him getting into the box and looking like a goal threat on his debut against Everton for us.
  
  
• Gedson - Highly rated in Portugal after performing well in Benfica's European run and had made his way into the Portuguese national side as a teenager. Chelsea had also made an offer to sign him but he chose us over them - https://www.skysports.com/football/...-sign-benfica-midfielder-on-initial-loan-deal

What has happened to all of these talented players that we had on our books? Most are still here, but all of their careers have dived off a cliff. They've all looked absolutely useless this season. What has changed? The coaching. I have no idea what happens at Hotspur Way, but something has made a group of formerly talented players ALL start to regress. Are there any of our players that have gone the other direction in the same time period? Only one you could really argue for is Kane, but I'm not sure if he's actually gotten any better, he's just had his first season without a long term injury in three years. I'm giving a free pass for Alderweireld, Vertonghen and Rose as older players, but the speed at which they have declined as well is pretty shocking.

People defend Mourinho by saying "how many of our players would get into the Man Utd/Liverpool etc sides?". Not many is the answer. But that's not just because the players aren't good enough, it's because they have been poorly coached and managed and have gotten worse. A few years ago, many of the above players WOULD have gotten into the Man Utd or Liverpool sides, and that is why we were regularly finishing above those clubs. Now you can't expect every player to have a continuously upward trajectory, even under the best management there will always be a few that don't progress the way you hope, but this is not just one or two bad apples, I've listed nine players there and it's no coincidence, for so many that had so much potential to all seemingly flush it down the toilet around the time that they started working with Mourinho....well you draw your own conclusions....

It's clear to me that Mourinho has created a toxic environment in which players have had their confidence knocked for six, are terrified to make mistakes or take risks, are panicking under pressure and instead of focusing training around improving their ability or in creating structured team moves, it's all focused around what NOT to do and it is killing the club.

By all accounts, it seems like the Spurs players that have improved the most this season have been Oliver Skipp, Juan Foyth and Ryan Sessegnon. That should tell you all you need to know.

 

[Metalhead]

• Alli - Two time PFA Team of the Season and two time PFA Young Player of the Year - was widely considered as one of the hottest young talents in the country and had been one of the most important players in our most consistent run of league finishes of the past 60 years.
  
  
• Winks - Had forced his way into the Spurs and England starting XI by dominating the midfield in big games, including twice against Real Madrid in the Champions League and against Spain in the Nations League - just needed to get a run of staying fit to really kick on.
  
  
• Dier - A first team starter for multiple seasons, either at CB, DM or even at RB, in the strongest Tottenham defence of all time. Linked with a £50m move to Bayern Munich by more than one outlet. Captained his country.
  
  
• Sanchez - A £42m signing, then our transfer record, who was so calm, composed and solid at the back in his first season that he earned himself a new contract at the end of it. He'd been so effective in wins over Real Madrid, Dortmund, Liverpool, at Stamford Bridge and in the North London Derby that people were making comparisons with Ledley, and some even said that we'd made a better signing than Liverpool had made in Van Dijk.
  
  
• Sissoko - When Son was announced as the winner of our 2019 Player of the Season award, the WHL crowd started singing Sissoko's name as many felt he'd been our most consistent player that year. He made it into UEFA's official Champions League Squad of the Season and has more caps for France than the likes of Emmanuel Petit or Ngolo Kante (and could quite easily catch Makelele and Platini), with that France side being arguably the strongest international side in the world in the last five years having reached their last two major finals.
  
  
• Bergwijn - Named by UEFA as the best player at the U17 Euros, had been a regular in the PSV starting XI since he was a teenager and now made his way into the Netherlands full international starting XI. Made a bright start with us by scored in each of his first three PL games at WHL, including openers against Man City and Man Utd.
  
  
• Vinicius - Had just won the Bola de Prata (Portuguese version of golden boot) when we signed him
  
  
• Doherty - Believe he won an award naming him as Wolves' best player of the decade. Just read this - https://www.expressandstar.com/spor...tys-stats-deliver-the-wolves-feelgood-factor/ - I remember him getting into the box and looking like a goal threat on his debut against Everton for us.
  
  
• Gedson - Highly rated in Portugal after performing well in Benfica's European run and had made his way into the Portuguese national side as a teenager. Chelsea had also made an offer to sign him but he chose us over them - https://www.skysports.com/football/...-sign-benfica-midfielder-on-initial-loan-deal

What has happened to all of these talented players that we had on our books? Most are still here, but all of their careers have dived off a cliff. They've all looked absolutely useless this season. What has changed? The coaching. I have no idea what happens at Hotspur Way, but something has made a group of formerly talented players ALL start to regress. Are there any of our players that have gone the other direction in the same time period? Only one you could really argue for is Kane, but I'm not sure if he's actually gotten any better, he's just had his first season without a long term injury in three years. I'm giving a free pass for Alderweireld, Vertonghen and Rose as older players, but the speed at which they have declined as well is pretty shocking.

People defend Mourinho by saying "how many of our players would get into the Man Utd/Liverpool etc sides?". Not many is the answer. But that's not just because the players aren't good enough, it's because they have been poorly coached and managed and have gotten worse. A few years ago, many of the above players WOULD have gotten into the Man Utd or Liverpool sides, and that is why we were regularly finishing above those clubs. Now you can't expect every player to have a continuously upward trajectory, even under the best management there will always be a few that don't progress the way you hope, but this is not just one or two bad apples, I've listed nine players there and it's no coincidence, for so many that had so much potential to all seemingly flush it down the toilet around the time that they started working with Mourinho....well you draw your own conclusions....

It's clear to me that Mourinho has created a toxic environment in which players have had their confidence knocked for six, are terrified to make mistakes or take risks, are panicking under pressure and instead of focusing training around improving their ability or in creating structured team moves, it's all focused around what NOT to do and it is killing the club.

By all accounts, it seems like the Spurs players that have improved the most this season have been Oliver Skipp, Juan Foyth and Ryan Sessegnon. That should tell you all you need to know.

I haven't heard many people say that Sissoko, Doherty, Gedson and Sanchez would have played better under a different coach. They've all been called 'limited' judging by the many comments that I've read.

 

[SpartanSpur]

David Moyes currently has West Ham in the top four, looking much more organised than us and playing arguably better football. David Moyes.

Don't even try to tell me that Mourinho can't get anything more out of this group of International/Champions League proven players that includes one of the best players in world football.

Don't tell me we can't expect more than what we've seen this season with Levy as chairman when the dildo bros' club is above us. He has plenty of faults but they are much much worse. West Ham were in a relegation battle this time last season.

 

[rez9000]

I know CGI when I see it

Can I ask what shape you think the Earth is?

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

I said yesterday to pals that even when we were leading 2-1, I didn't see us finishing top 6.

That's quite a coincidence because, when we were leading 2-1, I told pals that I didn't see us winning unless we scored 6.


And before he pipes up. Fuck you @doctor stefan Freud I could have pals

 

[Ashley1974]

I think in future I don't want to see appointments based on what coaches have won or if they are simply the next big thing.

They have to have a style and strategy that matches the club's direction. Much like the way Ajax appoint coaches who are very technical. Our coaches need to be brave and attack teams, encouraging players to play on the front foot with high energy.

It's why Santini, Ramos, AVB and now Jose have flopped, they dont fit.

It's why Poch, Redknapp and Jol did well (despite a lack of success in their past) because they suited the club/fans ethos.

It's why Nagelsmann may be the ideal pick.

And why im starting to go off the idea of Allegri.

Which is also why Potter would fit well too

 

[rez9000]

Sounds painful whatever it is

You've never been on the end of it, so you'll never knooooow....

 

[SUIYHA]

I haven't heard many people say that Sissoko, Doherty, Gedson and Sanchez would have played better under a different coach. They've all been called 'limited' judging by the many comments that I've read.

I'm not saying that Sissoko, Doherty or Gedson would ever have been world class (though Sanchez definitely looked like the real deal in his first season), it cannot be denied that these players looked a lot better under the likes of Pochettino, Nuno, Benitez or Deschamps than they have under Mourinho.

 

[yojambo]

Thing I don't understand with publicly criticising the players is that they will just down tools and eventually cost you your job. Not any upside, just feels like getting the excuses in.

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

If you're using chrome, do a right click and hit inspect element. Then press CTRL+SHIFT+P and in the search bar that comes up, begin typing java until "disable javascript" comes up, click that and hit refresh on the page. When you're done, do the CTRL+SHIFT+P again and find the button that says "enable javascript" comes up.

 

[Emi]

You'd assume that part of the application/interview process would be a discussion of the squad's strengths and areas for improvement though, right? I mean, I'd expect Sissoko, Foyth, Gazzaniga, CCV, Rose at a minimum to be out of the door whatever happens.

I assume that a manager who is considering taking a role in a new team studies that team with detail. And I would think many players in this squad wouldn't pass that study hahahahaha but who knows. Maybe Levy uses the change in manager to avoid selling some players he thinks still have something to offer and tells the manager to have them in his plans (Dele, Winks or others no one would bid high enough in Levy's parameters).
And to be honest, getting rid of those players you mentioned is not enough imo.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Thing I don't understand with publicly criticising the players is that they will just down tools and eventually cost you your job. Not any upside, just feels like getting the excuses in.

When it gets to this point - you've already lost your job. Its now about blaming someone else for you losing your job.

 

[ljinko888]

Moyes has got Craig Dawson who was relegated with Watford last season looking like a beast this season. You'd have probably got banned for being a WUM if you suggested him as a signing in the summer.

 

[Metalhead]

I'm not saying that Sissoko, Doherty or Gedson would ever have been world class (though Sanchez definitely looked like the real deal in his first season), it cannot be denied that these players looked a lot better under the likes of Pochettino, Nuno, Benitez or Deschamps than they have under Mourinho.

Yeah but in fairness, whilst Jose has come in for a fair amount of stick, not many people have used Sissoko, Gedson, Doherty - certainly Gedson - against him. Most people have said that Doherty was a bad idea, Gedson seems to have been rated by very few and Sissoko has always been seen as limited. I accept that Jose is a fair target for criticism but I'm not sure about some of the examples.

 

[Ashley1974]

Because levy has been too busy having his Cory sucked and back slapped over the stadium, his ego is now the size of North London he lost focus on pitch matters that has cost us dearly.

Ah but you see, I don’t think he ‘lost’ focus on pitch matters, it was a choice of his that this was never his focus. The stadium (and revenue increase) was his focus. Now that this has been achieved, he can finally focus on pitch matters. Which he has in the last 2 summer transfer windows tbf

 

[doctor stefan Freud]

That's quite a coincidence because, when we were leading 2-1, I told pals that I didn't see us winning unless we scored 6.


And before he pipes up. Fuck you @doctor stefan Freud I could have pals