- Nov 29, 2004
- 36,269
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I'd rather not see more thank you very much...
It's not about entitlement at all. In fact the inference is ridiculous. It's about what I want to watch. It's a personal preference. I dont feel entitled as a spurs fan to have success, that is entertaining and sustainable. I feel proud that my club has a tradition of playing good football and also that the fanbase has a tradition of wanting to see that type of football. But we arent entitled to it.I couldn't agree more, but for many fans just winning isn't enough.
That poster you've quoted not only wants to win, he wants to win whilst playing good proactive football (no passive rubbish), and if that wasn't enough entitlement its also got to be sustainable.
Was it exciting? Would you be happy watching it week in and week out?Was yesterday passive rubbish? it may not have been 1970 Brazil, but we bossed every attacking metric, from possession to territorial superiority to chances created to corners won and passes completed. We definitely were not just so’s king up pressure and waiting for mistakes, and until our fortuitous opened had 4 very good chances to open the scoring,
I think where you and I are diverging is that you seem to think this is a finished product, whereas I believe it is a work in progress.Was it exciting? Would you be happy watching it week in and week out?
More importantly, would it work against a decent team? We both know that every time we come up against a half decent team that presses, we will sit back, wait for the other team to make a mistake and try to break on them.
So even if you make the argument that it is effective, if uninspiring, football. It isnt! It isnt effective at all because in order to consistently challenge for the league or major trophies, you cant wait for the best teams to make mistakes. Athletico aside, what top team plays like that? Name one consistently successful team in the last decade that has played like that?
actually i enjoy this rather than passing the ball around opponent's box...I’m proud of our history of playing attractive football, with exciting skilful players.
But it has to be rewarded otherwise it’s ultimately pointless.
I’d be happy to sacrifice some of our open, attacking football in order to actually win trophies. And I dont really mind well-executed counter attacking football. Sons wonder goal against Burnley was a counter attack for example.
Fans of teams such as Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal also have high expectations for the quality of their attacking play, but all prioritise winning over expansive football at the end of the day.
actually i enjoy this rather than passing the ball around opponent's box...
.....but I don't enjoy watching opponents pass it around our box for long periods of time.
Was it exciting? Would you be happy watching it week in and week out?
More importantly, would it work against a decent team? We both know that every time we come up against a half decent team that presses, we will sit back, wait for the other team to make a mistake and try to break on them.
So even if you make the argument that it is effective, if uninspiring, football. It isnt! It isnt effective at all because in order to consistently challenge for the league or major trophies, you cant wait for the best teams to make mistakes. Athletico aside, what top team plays like that? Name one consistently successful team in the last decade that has played like that?
Was it exciting? Would you be happy watching it week in and week out?
More importantly, would it work against a decent team? We both know that every time we come up against a half decent team that presses, we will sit back, wait for the other team to make a mistake and try to break on them.
So even if you make the argument that it is effective, if uninspiring, football. It isnt! It isnt effective at all because in order to consistently challenge for the league or major trophies, you cant wait for the best teams to make mistakes. Athletico aside, what top team plays like that? Name one consistently successful team in the last decade that has played like that?
Disagree. We were actually fewer points out of 5th when he started than we are right now.
Injuries did happen of course but we should have played better than we were.
Yea agree with this mate but I think the covid situation has screwed us a bit as we were building financially with all the events booked in, NFL, concerts etc building our revenue streams and our brand and I think there is money there but covid will have unfortusntly effected that.I fully back Jose and think we will do well next season but can't help but feel demotivated for next year seeing how good United look (before the inevitable arrival of Sancho) and Chelsea spending millions in the transfer market, knowing full well that City and Liverpool will 90% both still be at the top next season. As I said before I think we will do well next season and we have an excellent squad but as we lack a few players to really elevate us to that title/ucl challenging level that we all dream of us being at and in the current financial circumstances I can't see those players coming in. I'm basically saying I can't really see a possibility of us getting near the league or UCL title in the next few years and we will probably win a domestic cup/Europa League which would be amazing don't get me wrong but having been so close to the title two years running and reaching a UCL final last year I don't think I personally will be truly happy until we win one of the big two. Bit depressing really but you never know in football I guess.
Brilliant post and agree with all of this apart from “JM teams play attractive attacking Football, they always have. It's a fallacy that they don't, based on the few "big ticket" games where he adopts the pragmatic "contain and nullify" approach.”Absolute tosh, he's not "guaranteeing" anything of the sort.
He's rebuilding the team at the moment from the defence forwards. Rebuilding their solidity and confidence. What he inherited was a disjointed mess with a group of players who had clearly lost faith in the previous project. A team that was in freefall and couldn't buy a win. Let's not kid ourselves, we were in relegation form when he took over.
He managed to get us to turn it around and get back into winning form, but only because we were out scoring opponents, we were still massively porous when attacked. Then he lost our 2 main strikers so we had a porous defensive unit with no attacking threat.
Who the fuck in World Football would be able to churn out entertaining and successful Football with the handicaps he had?
You want success, you build a strong foundation, you start by being hard to beat. Once you have that in place, you work on how you transition into attack and how you dominate the ball. You don't try to do it all at once, even youth coaches understand this. Drill one aspect until it is second nature, then work on the next until ALL are second nature.
JM teams play attractive attacking Football, they always have. It's a fallacy that they don't, based on the few "big ticket" games where he adopts the pragmatic "contain and nullify" approach. You don't set goal scoring records in virtually every league you've managed in by being a boring, counter attacking side, rolling that chestnut out is pure sophistry.
Can’t argue with thatHonest to God we've become brainwashed. I'd say for 18-24 months under Poch we played the swashbuckling way many seem to remember. We were fantastic during that period but it wasn't the way for his whole time here.
I used to get so bored with the sideways passing getting so far up the pitch, passing on the edge of their box, out to the full back, cuts inside and passes sideways, start again. We became unbelievably easy to play against.
What Poch couldn't do was adapt. He couldn't change our style before a game, let alone his awful in game management.
I've had moments watching us over the years where it's been great. But it's been moments. We've zero to show for it.
Personally I like having a manager who is proactive and if after 20 minutes it ain't working he makes a sub. At half time he makes subs. Instead of waiting till the 78th minute like Poch did in every game.
I think more Spurs fans are slowly coming round to this idea of thinking.The amount of revisionism going on around Poch is weird. The football under him was great for a period but the last 18 months under him was dreadful to watch.
Mourinho at least will set us up for big games properly and the in game management will be better. How many games last year did we go in needing a result and conceded really early on in the game.
Before Jose we had 1.16 points per matchDisagree. We were actually fewer points out of 5th when he started than we are right now.
Injuries did happen of course but we should have played better than we were.