Jose Mourinho

[JCRD]

Thinking through yesterday's match more, I'm just flabbergasted. How is it that the team that's 3-0 down after half time is the most hungry, the best organised and the most energetic team? It's just makes no sense. The fault is entirely systematic and pray there is a solution for it.
It's not Aurier's fucking fault.

Also happened against Newcastle int he second half. First half could have been four or five and we did create in the second but it was just pressure we are inviting on ourselves. Newcastle put pressure and so did West Spam. We are trying to manage the game out you can tell but just means more pressure on us.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

This is probably easier to talk about after watching us completely fall apart rather than a post getting ahead of myself because of a couple of wins but I've listened to a lot of Roy Keane over the last week and a little bit of Neville and I found the insight into how the shaping of a dressing can dictate things to be very interesting as it pertains to the squad we have now built.

What Keane spoke about especially was his early United days when he was coming into a dressing room surrounded by experienced heads and felt what fergie did well was to have a conveyor belt of talent in terms of the ages and make up of the dressing room. He pointed to him coming in with Robson, Bruce the older heads who you would look at and that would really shape the standard you have to elevate to. I truly believe we have built a dressing room which is designed to win.

First of all we finally have some big winners in the dressing room and they're all older players to go along with our manager.

Hart - 33 - 2 Prem medals, 2 league cups and a F.A cup
Bale 31 - La Liga x 2, Champions League x 4, Copa Del Rey, Supercup x 2, World Club cup x 3
Lloris 33 - World cup winning captain
Jose - Portuguese league x 2, La liga, Serie A x 2, Prem x 3, Champions league x 2, Uefa Cup x 2, F.a Cup, league cup x 3, Copa Del Rey, Coppa Italia, Portuguese cup

So if you compared to a little over 12 months ago we have added to the dressing a really healthy amount of experienced winners to the older side of our team including the manager.

Then what you're looking for is standard bearers across the different age ranges in the team. I think the stand out leaders are Kane at 27 and Hojbjerg at 25. This also along with the fact we have the Ivory Coast captain, England captain, France Captain, South Korean Captain, Welsh Captain. We have got leaders all over the dressing room now. I haven't even included Dier who carries a similar spirit. We have that Spine of voices across the team from goalkeeper to attack.

I think that it's been an incredible job done by Jose, Hitchen and Levy to rebuild the dressing room in this way and we're already seeing the benefit of the new competition for places in some players, namely Aurier looks to have elevated his game since the arrival of Doherty.

I know it will be easy to dismiss given what happened at the weekend but we're in the extremely early stages of this dressing room and when I hear Keane talk about what made United so successful, I see parallels in how our dressing room has been built. Our last 3 prem games read 2 draws and a win and that is frustrating but if you look at the football we're playing on the front foot.

I really believe we can challenge for the title this season given that City haven't really sorted their issues and Liverpool have suffered some unfortunate big injuries. Our big question mark is the defence and defences do win you titles so if we fall short, I think it will be easy to point towards the central defence. My hope is that now the structure is in place, we can see Dier really take control of that defence and hopefully either Jose can solve the problems with Sanchez or Rodon can surprise us all and take the spot a lot earlier than many of us predict. We've lost a lot of points already but the start to the season has been crazy. I think we've built a dressing room which will ask questions of one another after that result and resolve the problems we faced yesterday.

I have to say I think we're placing the best football I've seen us play since we finished 2nd to Chelsea and with the coach we have, you'd anticipate he will find a solution to the defensive frailness rather sharply.

Possibly but results like the home loss to Everton and dropping 2 points against Newcastle and West Ham after we battered both of them are not results that a title winning team gets. Early days for sure but the league could be so tight this year those 4 points we've dropped are absolutely massive if you want to have title aspirations.

I think we have a very slim chance but I'm not sure this year will quite be our time but Jose is certainly building something good, we just need to sort our defending out mainly from 'lateral free kicks' .

 

[spids]

I can't see why people are criticising the subs. At 3-0 those players that come on are more than experienced enough, and of sufficient quality to see out the last 20 minutes. Our players need to rest when we can afford it, and yesterday was definitely a point where that should have been possible.

Bale is slightly different because he needs match minutes, but Winks and Lucas were starters for us until a few weeks ago. Playing in exactly the same roles they came into yesterday.

We can part sone of the blame to Jose as far as the mentality is concerned, but as far as the subs? I'm not sure I'd have done too much differently. Considering the stage of the game and what the score line was.

A lot of people bemoaning the subs and tactics with their hindsight goggles on imo.

Problem wasn't primarily the subs though Trix. it was the mentality and tactics once we went 3-0 up. We literally conceded midfield and were happy to defend on the edge of our box thinking we'd won. We should have been saying at HT "Let's hit this lot for 7 or 8 and send a real message of intent."

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I hope Mourinho has learned his lesson: never ever leave Lamela out from the squad when fit to play. Idiot!

Thought this was quite funny to be fair 8 doh's for @ralvy is a bit harsh, was clearly a joke.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I can't see why people are criticising the subs. At 3-0 those players that come on are more than experienced enough, and of sufficient quality to see out the last 20 minutes. Our players need to rest when we can afford it, and yesterday was definitely a point where that should have been possible.

Bale is slightly different because he needs match minutes, but Winks and Lucas were starters for us until a few weeks ago. Playing in exactly the same roles they came into yesterday.

We can part sone of the blame to Jose as far as the mentality is concerned, but as far as the subs? I'm not sure I'd have done too much differently. Considering the stage of the game and what the score line was.

A lot of people bemoaning the subs and tactics with their hindsight goggles on imo.

100% spot on.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

You have to wonder why we've just bought a mountain of a CB who is renowned for his heading ability in the box. Perhaps Jose see's the issue as well?

Funny that isn't it that a 20 trophy winning world class manager seems to have recognised what we are all saying.
Some people need to calm down, Jose is improving us all the time, we are way way better that this time last year by a country mile, we just need to sort out defending lateral free-kicks and giving away silly fouls and get experience of holding onto and seeing out leads and we will be one hell of a team.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Son off was an odd one. He was causing them all sorts of problems and didn’t look tired. I also think the protection Aurier and Reguilón lost ultimately made a big difference, especially on the right. Something like Doherty for Ndombele, with us going 442 and him/ Aurier playing one in front of the other and Bale likewise on the other side in front of Sergio would’ve nullified the only thing West Ham had

Not sure if anybody engaged with this but while everyone was wetting themselves at Winks, Sissoko and Sanchez, the most baffling sub was the above. Putting Moura on the left was akin to Sissoko for Dele at half time in the Everton game.

I'm a big fan of Jose, I don't expect us to win the league, and I think he'll win us a pot for sure, but fuck me he has made some batshit crazy substitutions.

 

[Shadydan]

Thought this was quite funny to be fair 8 doh's for @ralvy is a bit harsh, was clearly a joke.

It's Ralvy.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Not sure if anybody engaged with this

I think these days people just try to blot me out and hope I’ll go away ?

 

[mpickard2087]

I think it's fair to say there was a collective drift, probably down to scoreline complacency, that you might expect from/under most managers but not Mourinho. I'd have still expected him to shut down the match, we've seen it before at two or three nil after all. Especially considering that after the opening 15 mins performance wise we were really unconvincing and very open. Several individuals were clearly starting to play with their heads in the clouds and not really at it 100%, and particularly in the second half was obvious we had an issue with our fullbacks going out to meet their wide man and runners going into the space vacated untracked.

But we just didn't do anything. Son/Ndombele/Bergwijn were (increasingly) often ahead of the ball and not getting back and just waiting to be sprung on the counter attack. At 3-0 you might think it's done, whatever subs you want can be done, but I don't think it's hindsight to say that on the hour of football (mins 15-75) we'd seen served up that enough was enough at that point and it was time to focus and get some messages out there to wake up a bit. Get a solid two banks of four etc, solidify the wide areas, wake a few players up... Instead we get Gareth "tracking back is not for me" Bale, and Moura just comes on and adds to the slumber and his first act was to not bother going with his man for the 2nd goal. The collective kick up the arse, however you do it, never came.

Even with this happening I don't think anyone would ever expect to go from 3-0 to 3-3 in the last 10 mins of a match, but on everything we'd seen from after the 15th minute I was fully expecting them to eventually get a goal back at some point and to have a more difficult finish that it really should have been. They might not have had brilliant chances, but we were wide open enough and they consistently worked the ball into decent areas that eventually by law of averages a goal or two was going to come. Collectively we left a glimmer of light for them, rather than slamming the door in their face and triple locking it.

 

[PrettyColors]

It’s been said before, but subs or no subs we have a serious issue. Set. Pieces.

I get that this comes with training but we have to be up there for the worst “top team” in the world at defending set pieces. Goals conceded from a set piece situation: Plovdiv, Everton, Newcastle, West Ham 2x, Southampton should have scored as well.

I’m sure we do a better job than some but I genuinely think a middling Championship side is much more robust and organized defending crosses and set pieces. And that isn’t just due to the players they have. Kane and Dier are the only two who actually try to meet the ball in the air, it’s pathetic watching our midfielders in the box especially. I would spend hours on it if I was Mourinho as it’s more than an Achilles heel, it’s like charging into battle with a massive hole in your armour, square in the chestplate.

 

[ClintEastwould]

Genuine question: has a Mourinho side ever capitulated like that before? 3 goal lead in the last ten minutes?

 

[Metalhead]

It’s been said before, but subs or no subs we have a serious issue. Set. Pieces.

I get that this comes with training but we have to be up there for the worst “top team” in the world at defending set pieces. Goals conceded from a set piece situation: Plovdiv, Everton, Newcastle, West Ham 2x, Southampton should have scored as well.

I’m sure we do a better job than some but I genuinely think a middling Championship side is much more robust and organized defending crosses and set pieces. And that isn’t just due to the players they have. Kane and Dier are the only two who actually try to meet the ball in the air, it’s pathetic watching our midfielders in the box especially. I would spend hours on it if I was Mourinho as it’s more than an Achilles heel, it’s like charging into battle with a massive hole in your armour, square in the chestplate.

I don’t think that you’ll find many disagreeing and there is clearly work to do. It’s hard to imagine however that Mourinho - a manager noted for his attention to the defensive aspect of the game - isn’t aware of the current shortcomings.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

I think it's fair to say there was a collective drift, probably down to scoreline complacency, that you might expect from most managers but not Mourinho. I'd have still expected him to shut down the match, we've seen it before at two or three nil after all. Especially considering that after the opening 15 mins performance wise we were really unconvincing and very open. Several individuals were clearly starting to play with their heads in the clouds and not really at it 100%, and particularly in the second half was obvious we had an issue with our fullbacks going out to meet their wide man and runners going into the space vacated untracked.

But we just didn't do anything. Son/Ndombele/Bergwijn were (increasingly) often ahead of the ball and not getting back and just waiting to be sprung on the counter attack. At 3-0 you might think it's done, whatever subs you want can be done, but I don't think it's hindsight to say that on the hour of football (mins 15-75) we'd seen served up that enough was enough at that point and it was time to focus and get some messages out there to wake up a bit. Get a solid two banks of four etc, solidify the wide areas, wake a few players up... Instead we get Gareth "tracking back is not for me" Bale, and Moura just comes on and adds to the slumber and his first act was to not bother going with his man for the 2nd goal. The collective kick up the arse, however you do it, never came.

I don't think anyone would ever expect to go from 3-0 to 3-3 in the last 10 mins of a match, but on everything we'd seen from after the 15th minute I was fully expecting them to eventually get a goal back at some point and to have a more difficult finish that it really should have been. They might not have had brilliant chances, but we were wide open enough and they consistently worked the ball into decent areas that eventually by law of averages a goal or two was going to come. Collectively we left a glimmer of light for them, rather than slamming the door in their face and triple locking it.

First of all... holy shit you’re back. Most unexpected but definitely welcome.

Second of all, pretty much totally agreed. Not sure if here or elsewhere but I’ve said that when we made our subs contesting the wide areas with two backs of four would stop their only means of getting at us, Doherty and Aurier in front of eachother on the right in particular. Our individual errors are the result of a collective malaise and ultimately on the balance of play the result was fair as we only really played for 16 minutes.

 

[mpickard2087]

First of all... holy shit you’re back. Most unexpected but definitely welcome.

Second of all, pretty much totally agreed. Not sure if here or elsewhere but I’ve said that when we made our subs contesting the wide areas with two backs of four would stop their only means of getting at us, Doherty and Aurier in front of eachother on the right in particular. Our individual errors are the result of a collective malaise and ultimately on the balance of play the result was fair as we only really played for 16 minutes.

Ha cheers mate. A combo of a few days off work, the transfer window shitshow being over, and spending an hour and a half shouting at the TV whilst feeling I'd been visited by the ghost(s) of Tottenham past tipped me over the edge and persuaded me to drop in...

 

[spursfan77]

Well compare it to last season when teams were just walking through our midfield unopposed, now we look more compact and much harder for teams to go through the midfield, and we're top goal scorers in the league. We only conceded one from open play before yesterday so we so we're doing something right.

Maybe I need to toughen the fuck up then. Our defending still scares me!

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Ha cheers mate. A combo of a few days off work, the transfer window shitshow being over, and spending an hour and a half shouting at the TV whilst feeling I'd been visited by the ghost(s) of Tottenham past tipped me over the edge and persuaded me to drop in...

I was under the impression you’d even try to stop watching our matches, or was that scat1620? I definitely remember someone saying it.

Edit: it was scat, who I’ve now untagged so as not to unwittingly bring him into a thread he’d not want to participate in/ out of respect for his decision

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

You have to wonder why we've just bought a mountain of a CB who is renowned for his heading ability in the box. Perhaps Jose see's the issue as well?

We had a towering CF who is an ex-CB on the bench, but we brought Lucas on instead.

 

[tooey]

It’s been said before, but subs or no subs we have a serious issue. Set. Pieces.

I get that this comes with training but we have to be up there for the worst “top team” in the world at defending set pieces. Goals conceded from a set piece situation: Plovdiv, Everton, Newcastle, West Ham 2x, Southampton should have scored as well.

I’m sure we do a better job than some but I genuinely think a middling Championship side is much more robust and organized defending crosses and set pieces. And that isn’t just due to the players they have. Kane and Dier are the only two who actually try to meet the ball in the air, it’s pathetic watching our midfielders in the box especially. I would spend hours on it if I was Mourinho as it’s more than an Achilles heel, it’s like charging into battle with a massive hole in your armour, square in the chestplate.

I don't have the stats to back this up but I'd suspect goals from set peices (directly and indirectly) have gone up since the introduction of VAR. Half the battle of a corner before the introduction of VAR was winning the tussle before the ball came in. Now it's you can barely touch an opponent. That coupled with the handball rule is the reason we're seeing so many goals this year. Defenders are barely allowed to defend.

With all of that said we should be better. VAR or no VAR Moussa Sissoko should not be static and barely breaking into a hop. Embarrassing.

 

[Lighty64]

People blaming the subs or Aurier are wrong. Subs were fine and there was no free kick by Aurier.

What the problem really is was mentality-wise, individual brainfarts and poor management trying to defend a lead instead of controlling it. It all sounds very familiar - it’s very much Spurs.

Was such a bad 2nd half. For me it’s down to very bad coaching and/or players not responding to it.

You don’t throw away a 3-0 lead to West Ham - ever. And no it’s not a fluke or whatever. End of discussion really.

we come out the 2nd half and invited them on. Mourinho doesn't like 2-0, but seems happy with 3-0.

we should have come out in the second half and gone for the jugular, if we got caught on the counter then so be it, but sitting back and inviting pressure allows teams to try and buy a free kick near the area (or in Snodgrass ROBBED the bank). also when so close to the end of a game hoof the ball up field.