Jose Mourinho

[rossdapep]

Last summer still felt like there were holes in the squad and I couldn't see the strategy as clear as I'm seeing now for example.

Last summer when we signed Ndombele it looked like we were attacking the window with purpose. Instead, if Betis hadn't buckled eventually, we'd have ended up with only two young players and Ndombele to show - despite not signing anyone for 18 months previously.

It's clear as day that there was a massive drift between Levy and Poch on what the strategy was and how the club could go forward. Poch seemed to only want prime potential, no second or third rate options, whereas Levy was still pushing young options forward.

Jose isn't about big targets, he's always been more practical. His time at United seems to have skewed opinion because he spent big on big players but I truly believe that was Woodward and for stakeholders benefits.

I remember that video of when Jose is talking about signing Drogba and Abramovich asked "Who?" and Jose just said "Stop talking and buy him". He knows a player when he sees one and he knows how to improve squads no matter the budget, it just comes down to whether clubs share his vision and don't meddle.

 

[SpursSince1980]

My hope for JM, is that the situation with Ndombele gets figured out quickly. One way or the other. He needs to leave or if he stays, he needs to participate. As I fear that this guy will become a distraction after a while. Each time he doesn’t start or gets subbed, etc, that’ll be the focus of questions from the press. It’ll balloon into this overwrought issue that casts a shadow over the squad, and we don’t need that kind of distraction. As the old adage goes... we are only as strong as our weakest link. And much like Pogba at UTD, I worry that TD could be a polarizing force that creates friction that erodes moral of those around him. After all, he is the joint highest earner at the club, yet there are academy players in the U15s with more dedication.

 

[matthew.absurdum]

Levy and Mourinho did have a history

"Mourinho played a vital role; he was determined to bring me to Real, insisting on the transfer even when the Real officials lost their patience with Levy.

“Mourinho himself called the Tottenham chairman and tried to persuade him to accept the offer, ‘otherwise Real could back out of it.'”

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/needed-jose-mourinho-help-escape-173004031.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw

 

[thekneaf]

The extract in the guardian was dry as fuck. Modric getting all giggley over a visit to Roman Abramovich's yacht. The torment of an additional year at Spurs.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Last summer when we signed Ndombele it looked like we were attacking the window with purpose. Instead, if Betis hadn't buckled eventually, we'd have ended up with only two young players and Ndombele to show - despite not signing anyone for 18 months previously.

It's clear as day that there was a massive drift between Levy and Poch on what the strategy was and how the club could go forward. Poch seemed to only want prime potential, no second or third rate options, whereas Levy was still pushing young options forward.

Jose isn't about big targets, he's always been more practical. His time at United seems to have skewed opinion because he spent big on big players but I truly believe that was Woodward and for stakeholders benefits.

I remember that video of when Jose is talking about signing Drogba and Abramovich asked "Who?" and Jose just said "Stop talking and buy him". He knows a player when he sees one and he knows how to improve squads no matter the budget, it just comes down to whether clubs share his vision and don't meddle.

1,000% this.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

My hope for JM, is that the situation with Ndombele gets figured out quickly. One way or the other. He needs to leave or if he stays, he needs to participate. As I fear that this guy will become a distraction after a while. Each time he doesn’t start or gets subbed, etc, that’ll be the focus of questions from the press. It’ll balloon into this overwrought issue that casts a shadow over the squad, and we don’t need that kind of distraction. As the old adage goes... we are only as strong as our weakest link. And much like Pogba at UTD, I worry that TD could be a polarizing force that creates friction that erodes moral of those around him. After all, he is the joint highest earner at the club, yet there are academy players in the U15s with more dedication.

Completely agree. Having a solid transfer window is great but a key to this is Ndombele, if he can't be relied upon we need to do our best to move him on otherwise it will cause many issues.

 

[spursfan77]

Last summer when we signed Ndombele it looked like we were attacking the window with purpose. Instead, if Betis hadn't buckled eventually, we'd have ended up with only two young players and Ndombele to show - despite not signing anyone for 18 months previously.

It's clear as day that there was a massive drift between Levy and Poch on what the strategy was and how the club could go forward. Poch seemed to only want prime potential, no second or third rate options, whereas Levy was still pushing young options forward.

Jose isn't about big targets, he's always been more practical. His time at United seems to have skewed opinion because he spent big on big players but I truly believe that was Woodward and for stakeholders benefits.

I remember that video of when Jose is talking about signing Drogba and Abramovich asked "Who?" and Jose just said "Stop talking and buy him". He knows a player when he sees one and he knows how to improve squads no matter the budget, it just comes down to whether clubs share his vision and don't meddle.

Whilst I agree, if it does start to go tits up at any point Mourinho will probably point to the transfer window as being the cause of it in some way. That or fixture overload.

 

[rossdapep]

Whilst I agree, if it does start to go tits up at any point Mourinho will probably point to the transfer window as being the cause of it in some way. That or fixture overload.

Yeah for sure. I don't like the fact that he'd potentially air dirty laundry in public - and he does that to absolve blame - but if that happens there's absolutely no where for Levy to hide. It becomes completely transparent for us fans, not like some of us need convincing anyway.

I just watched Jose's post match interview after United won the Europa League. He used almost the same phrase about passing on player dossiers to the board, just like he did with us at the end of the season. However the tone is very different to the one he used with Levy.

When he used Woodward's name he made a point that Woodward had his list for two months and that it's now up to him to get what he wants. (He also referred to him as Ed Woodward and not Mr, like he did with Levy).

Compared to the words he used with us, which seemed to be much more about working together, it felt like he was expecting to not get what he wants.

I may be wrong and he may be just choosing his words carefully but I'd put my neck on the line to suggest that him and Woodward plus the scouts at the club were not on the same page when it came to targets.

He wanted Perisic, Arnautovic, Koulibaly, Dier, Toby, Matic, and a number of others. Whilst he got Matic he seemed to have to compromise with others.

Even Lukaku said he felt Jose never got the players he wanted.

If Levy lives up to the promises he gives Jose and they work together in harmony, then I expect big changes on the pitch.

You are never going to succeed if you are having players you see as pivotal to the way you wish to play blocked.

Solskjaer has had it easier because he is probably closer to the scouts there and more on the same page as to what the club want. Young players with high potential.

 

[John48]

Do think you can only judge a manager after a season & if the club buy him more or less what he wants to improve the squad.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Last summer when we signed Ndombele it looked like we were attacking the window with purpose. Instead, if Betis hadn't buckled eventually, we'd have ended up with only two young players and Ndombele to show - despite not signing anyone for 18 months previously.

It's clear as day that there was a massive drift between Levy and Poch on what the strategy was and how the club could go forward. Poch seemed to only want prime potential, no second or third rate options, whereas Levy was still pushing young options forward.

Jose isn't about big targets, he's always been more practical. His time at United seems to have skewed opinion because he spent big on big players but I truly believe that was Woodward and for stakeholders benefits.

I remember that video of when Jose is talking about signing Drogba and Abramovich asked "Who?" and Jose just said "Stop talking and buy him". He knows a player when he sees one and he knows how to improve squads no matter the budget, it just comes down to whether clubs share his vision and don't meddle.

Mourinho was very open about the overinflated fee for Lukaku, who was signed during that crazy window (Netmar went to PSG for £198m and Oxlaide-Chamberlain went for £40m - despite fitness concerns and only having 12 months left on his contract). We all know Pogba was signed by the board, not Mourinho.
He only signed a few players each season, even though the squad needed a much more significant overhaul to get back to winning titles (I agree with Mourinho's claim that finishing 2nd with United was a bigger achievement than most of his title wins).

Chelsea's most expensive signing during Mourinho's first reign was a player he didn't want (Shevchenko). Drogba, Carvalho and Essien were his most expensive signings - not exactly money down the drain. You could argue that Chelsea overpaid for some players (e.g. SWP, Cuadrado), but I'm sure that was more down to Abramovich than Mourinho.

 

[Seafordian Spurs]

My hope for JM, is that the situation with Ndombele gets figured out quickly. One way or the other. He needs to leave or if he stays, he needs to participate. As I fear that this guy will become a distraction after a while. Each time he doesn’t start or gets subbed, etc, that’ll be the focus of questions from the press. It’ll balloon into this overwrought issue that casts a shadow over the squad, and we don’t need that kind of distraction. As the old adage goes... we are only as strong as our weakest link. And much like Pogba at UTD, I worry that TD could be a polarizing force that creates friction that erodes moral of those around him. After all, he is the joint highest earner at the club, yet there are academy players in the U15s with more dedication.

Situation with Ndombele is certainly fraught. Our record signing and joint highest earner has been conspicuously absent from any THFC new kit posing....you'd think for those reasons he'd be in them.

Then again he's injured.

And can't fit into the kit.

Hahaha did you see what I did there? ?

 

[Neon_Knight_]

You are never going to succeed if you are having players you see as pivotal to the way you wish to play blocked.

AVB would have won the league if Levy had bought him Damiao

In all seriousness though, there have definitely been a few times where our manager has been let down on a key signing or we've missed out on becoming seriously competitive.

AVB - Modric sold, Moutinho fell through.
Harry - The January when Levy supposedly travelled the globe with a wheelbarrow full of cash, but missed out on Suarez and Aguero.
Poch - 18 months without a single signing and Dembele (key player) sold without replacement. (Not failure to sign a back-up for Kane though - he signed Llorente and Janssen, but opted to play Son upfront instead!).
Ramos - Berbatov, Keane & Defoe sold, with only Pavlyuchenko brought in to replace them.

 

[thekneaf]

AVB would have won the league if Levy had bought him Damiao

In all seriousness though, there have definitely been a few times where our manager has been let down on a key signing or we've missed out on becoming seriously competitive.

AVB - Modric sold, Moutinho fell through.
Harry - The January when Levy supposedly travelled the globe with a wheelbarrow full of cash, but missed out on Suarez and Aguero.
Poch - 18 months without a single signing and Dembele (key player) sold without replacement. (Not failure to sign a back-up for Kane though - he signed Llorente and Janssen, but opted to play Son upfront instead!).
Ramos - Berbatov, Keane & Defoe sold, with only Pavlyuchenko brought in to replace them.

Harry literally rejected Saurez because he told Levy he already had a player like that...in VDV - insert face palm emoji

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Do think you can only judge a manager after a season & if the club buy him more or less what he wants to improve the squad.

Harry literally rejected Saurez because he told Levy he already had a player like that...in VDV - insert face palm emoji

I forgot about that. Tbf Suarez didn't become a proper no.9 until something like his 3rd season at Liverpool (was he playing off Carrol/Morientes at first?).
I'm not sure his ability compensates for the fact he's a racist vampire though.

Kane + Aguero could have given opponents nightmares.

 

[spursfan77]

Yeah for sure. I don't like the fact that he'd potentially air dirty laundry in public - and he does that to absolve blame - but if that happens there's absolutely no where for Levy to hide. It becomes completely transparent for us fans, not like some of us need convincing anyway.

I just watched Jose's post match interview after United won the Europa League. He used almost the same phrase about passing on player dossiers to the board, just like he did with us at the end of the season. However the tone is very different to the one he used with Levy.

When he used Woodward's name he made a point that Woodward had his list for two months and that it's now up to him to get what he wants. (He also referred to him as Ed Woodward and not Mr, like he did with Levy).

Compared to the words he used with us, which seemed to be much more about working together, it felt like he was expecting to not get what he wants.

I may be wrong and he may be just choosing his words carefully but I'd put my neck on the line to suggest that him and Woodward plus the scouts at the club were not on the same page when it came to targets.

He wanted Perisic, Arnautovic, Koulibaly, Dier, Toby, Matic, and a number of others. Whilst he got Matic he seemed to have to compromise with others.

Even Lukaku said he felt Jose never got the players he wanted.

If Levy lives up to the promises he gives Jose and they work together in harmony, then I expect big changes on the pitch.

You are never going to succeed if you are having players you see as pivotal to the way you wish to play blocked.

Solskjaer has had it easier because he is probably closer to the scouts there and more on the same page as to what the club want. Young players with high potential.

Yes his tone is completely different. I posted quite a bit at the time about his relationship with Woodward in the Man U thread.

But if Levy doesn’t back him and Mourinho makes it public that that is the case then I don’t know where we go from here as a football club. It’s stick or twist for levy. If he doesnt back Mourinho then they might as well call it a day because they won’t back anyone else. There will be a lot of soul searching to do.

 

[sausage]

Yes his tone is completely different. I posted quite a bit at the time about his relationship with Woodward in the Man U thread.

But if Levy doesn’t back him and Mourinho makes it public that that is the case then I don’t know where we go from here as a football club. It’s stick or twist for levy. If he doesnt back Mourinho then they might as well call it a day because they won’t back anyone else. There will be a lot of soul searching to do.

I still don't know what this "backing the manager" thing is supposed to mean.

Or, if it's based on unequivocally doing whatever the manager wants with transfers, an example of a club that does it.

 

[Shadydan]

I forgot about that. Tbf Suarez didn't become a proper no.9 until something like his 3rd season at Liverpool (was he playing off Carrol/Morientes at first?).
I'm not sure his ability compensates for the fact he's a racist vampire though.

Kane + Aguero could have given opponents nightmares.

I'm not convinced that Aguero would have signed tbh.

 

[Wearegoingtowintheleague]

I was on holiday with a group of United fans last week, all equally hated Jose's time at the club by the end. However I asked them if they thought he was screwed by the club to which only one really believed so, the others were 50/50. I do believe though that things were not set up there to see the best of Jose, he was still building the blocks when stuff turned sour and I believe that by summer 2018 he was just waiting for the pay off due to Woodward not getting him a CB. Which the club were happy to do as soon as he was out the door....but weird that.

I also think Jose has a huge advantage with us compared to United.

He joined us mid season with many problems to fix and a squad low on morale and belief. This has given him time to get players to believe in him, assess the entire squad under little pressure, find our areas of weakness and strengths, he's also had time to work on strategy without the massive demands a club like United have in regards to getting results immediately. I believe it's allowed him to get his feet firmly under the table, build trust with the squad and allow him to make decisions (with Levy) with more clarity.

Compare that to his time at United in which he only started to discover player limitations at the end of his first year (during the season), struggled to get players to respond to his methods as some United players were on high salaries and very demanding. He also probably signed players without seeing the full picture on what United really needed to improve. Many rushed signings seemed to be made simply because they were big players and they thought they'd change the complexion of the team quickly. Not too mention he inherited a bloated squad and didn't have time to assess them so he could get rid of players in his first window.

The difference between him and Pep at City was that when Pep realised his squad wasn't going to cut it, he was allowed to sell who he felt needed to go and he got another 300m to spend.

Jose got told that some players were indispensable (Pogba, Martial) and he couldn't have more money to rectify the squad.

I just think before this season finished he would have been sitting there with a clear picture in his mind. The fact that he said that he'd left the club with a portfolio of players, in a calm manner, leads me to believe we have a much more focused and doubt-free Jose.

As United manager he spent £362 million on 11 players,

Jose also bought Pogba, so you'd hope he was indispensable when Jose bought him for £89 million

Let's not forget there is an argument that the reason that Jose wasn't given any more money was because they believed they were going backwards despite the huge spending the club had sanctioned.

Saying this I am backing Mourinho, despite not enjoying the football we play under him. i do think he has a chance of bringing us a trophy next season but expect him to focus on the 'lesser' trophies in order to do so.

I'm keeping my expectations low though and I hope people don't get on his back if we don't win a trophy.

I think we need to lower the expectations not build him up, otherwise this place will turn toxic pretty quick.

 

[yankspurs]

As United manager he spent £362 million on 11 players,

Jose also bought Pogba, so you'd hope he was indispensable when Jose bought him for £89 million

Let's not forget there is an argument that the reason that Jose wasn't given any more money was because they believed they were going backwards despite the huge spending the club had sanctioned.

Saying this I am backing Mourinho, despite not enjoying the football we play under him. i do think he has a chance of bringing us a trophy next season but expect him to focus on the 'lesser' trophies in order to do so.

I'm keeping my expectations low though and I hope people don't get on his back if we don't win a trophy.

I think we need to lower the expectations not build him up, otherwise this place will turn toxic pretty quick.

Wrt United, I’m willing to forgive Jose. United’s backroom is toxic, period. Not only does Woodward buy whoever the fuck he wants without a managers say, the place is so fucking insular. United will be fucked for awhile unless a) ole becomes a phenomenal manager or b) an outside manager is backed properly with the whole club behind him. If Jose didnt succeed there, the problem is in the backroom. As much as we all took the piss out of Jose at United, he was still a good manager. He was very pragmatic there because they couldnt defend, which they still cant. To be fair, we cant do that too well either although Sanchez, Toby and Dier would absolutely walk into their preferred back 4

At Chelsea, their players got sick of him. Much like ours did Poch.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

I'm not convinced that Aguero would have signed tbh.

You're probably right, but it was frustrating at the time, with rumours that Levy would sanction a record transfer but reportedly wouldn't up his offers by about 10% for any of our CF targets.

Back then we had a spine of King, Gallas, Modric, VDV & Bale, which wouldn't have been unnattractive to play with. Perhaps a top striker may have seen themself as the missing piece to turn us into a title winning side, if we'd been willing to pay circa £25m and make them our top earner.