Jose Mourinho

[Inq]

Pretty sure we were hearing lots about the players starting to turn on poch. So I can’t really side with the people saying we should have kept Poch. Once the squad starts to turn you either get rid of them or the manager and I think Kane was one of them. - I could be wrong but it’s in my head for a reason and it sounded believable.

like @Timberwolf said we are gonna be stuck with mourinho for a while. Best I can do for myself is remain positive. Hopefully we shift some dead weight and bring in a couple players we really need.

but something I wanted to put a few thoughts on is Dier and JM’s decision to pick him over Toby. Toby has been pretty good for us this season where Dier hasn’t albite he’s been playing DM at times but makes me wonder if Jose is thinking that this season for CL is fucked anyways so why not start implementing some of his plans for next season now to get some experience before preseason. Just don’t understand why he would drop Toby otherwise

 

[teok]

Ok, apologies for going off the rails with the last post.

Can you explain why someone wouldn't understand football if they appointed Mourinho?

Jose is very good at selling himself. He comes out with this PR charm offensive about how he has learned from his mistakes and turned over a new leaf. Done loads of soul searching etc. He says he has come up with a new way of playing etc etc.

He did that initially at both spurs and utd but reverted to type incredibly quickly.

 

[yankspurs]

Pretty sure we were hearing lots about the players starting to turn on poch. So I can’t really side with the people saying we should have kept Poch. Once the squad starts to turn you either get rid of them or the manager and I think Kane was one of them. - I could be wrong but it’s in my head for a reason and it sounded believable.

like @Timberwolf said we are gonna be stuck with mourinho for a while. Best I can do for myself is remain positive. Hopefully we shift some dead weight and bring in a couple players we really need.

but something I wanted to put a few thoughts on is Dier and JM’s decision to pick him over Toby. Toby has been pretty good for us this season where Dier hasn’t albite he’s been playing DM at times but makes me wonder if Jose is thinking that this season for CL is fucked anyways so why not start implementing some of his plans for next season now to get some experience before preseason. Just don’t understand why he would drop Toby otherwise

Excuse me?

 

[spursfan77]

Mourinho is the Manager you’d appoint if you didn’t understand football. And that’s the real problem with Levy and why we’ve signed so many duds.

I asked you earlier (apologies if I missed your response) who you’d have appointed instead but I dont think you gave an alternative?

 

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

I think people are starting to fall into the trap of thinking our players are shit because of recent performances.

Our team isn't shit - there's tons of talent. On paper we're better than all but 3 or 4 teams in the league. We have some glaring holes in the squad (CDM, RB, ST) but I suspect most managers would still prefer our squad over that of Wolves, Leicester, Arsenal and certainly Everton, Sheffield Utd etc. Before the season started most would've also picked our squad over those of Man Utd and Chelsea.

The problem is the way we're setting up. We look like far less than the sum of our parts and that has to be the fault of the manager.

Personally I think we dropped a bollock bringing in Mourihno. Yes he's a winner, but he's also on a downward trajectory and with Liverpool and City being this good I struggle to see him winning us a trophy (which is the main reason you bring him in).

We won't be moving him on anytime soon, so we've basically got to hold on tight, hope that he can turns things around somehow. We're gonna have to grin and bear it for a while, and maybe, just maybe, he'll hit upon a system that works.

I still maintain, though, that our squad is largely quite decent and under the right manager we'd be up there fighting for 3rd.

we’ve got a lot of quality in advanced positions but the defence we’ve got out at the moment is very poor. Probably one of the worst back fours in the league imo.

 

[NEVILLEB]

Ok, apologies for going off the rails with the last post.

Can you explain why someone wouldn't understand football if they appointed Mourinho?

Thanks

For me it’s whether Mourinho is the answer to Tottenham’s problems.

Looking at his trophy record you would say yes.

Looking at our style of play, our wage limit, historic transfer strategy, his propensity to fall out with players/Chairmen, questionable coaching ability, etc...you might well say no.

I don’t blame him for the current mess and at the big clubs he’s shown he’s a brilliant Manager. But I think he’s been bought in to replace Pochettino when the true problem was Levy‘s recruitment.

If Levy gives him lots of money and let’s him buy who he wants then Mourinho will be successful but is that going to happen?

 

[NEVILLEB]

I asked you earlier (apologies if I missed your response) who you’d have appointed instead but I dont think you gave an alternative?

I wouldn’t have fired Pochettino.

Do you have any thoughts on whether Jose was the right appointment?

Its whether Mourinho can manage Levy and sort out our transfer business.

 

[NEVILLEB]

Pretty sure we were hearing lots about the players starting to turn on poch. So I can’t really side with the people saying we should have kept Poch. Once the squad starts to turn you either get rid of them or the manager and I think Kane was one of them. - I could be wrong but it’s in my head for a reason and it sounded believable.

like @Timberwolf said we are gonna be stuck with mourinho for a while. Best I can do for myself is remain positive. Hopefully we shift some dead weight and bring in a couple players we really need.

but something I wanted to put a few thoughts on is Dier and JM’s decision to pick him over Toby. Toby has been pretty good for us this season where Dier hasn’t albite he’s been playing DM at times but makes me wonder if Jose is thinking that this season for CL is fucked anyways so why not start implementing some of his plans for next season now to get some experience before preseason. Just don’t understand why he would drop Toby otherwise

Pochettino is their friend.

 

[spursfan77]

I wouldn’t have fired Pochettino.


Its whether Mourinho can manage Levy and sort out our transfer business.

Keeping Poch would have led to a relegation fight. I’m sorry to say we were going nowhere but downwards. I’m not going to go round the houses with a conversation that’s been had a hundred times since he’s gone. If you can’t see the direction we were going under him there’s no point.

edit: fuck me, the Poch lemmings are lining up! Some people have short memories.

 

[NEVILLEB]

Keeping Poch would have led to a relegation fight. I’m sorry to say we were going nowhere but downwards. I’m not going to go round the houses with a conversation that’s been had a hundred times since he’s gone. If you can’t see the direction we were going under him there’s no point.

Who said I want to discuss it with you?

You asked me! ?

 

[Inq]

Excuse me?

I might be delusional. But I always thought he was decent. Or better than Dier when it came to situations around the box

 

[Timberwolf]

we’ve got a lot of quality in advanced positions but the defence we’ve got out at the moment is very poor. Probably one of the worst back fours in the league imo.

It's been performing poorly, but is it actually that bad? Toby was one of the best CBs in the league for years, Sanchez has the raw attributes to be a very good CB and was a key part of our defence in 17-18 which was excellent, while Davies is solid if unspectacular. The jury is still out on Dier at CB, and everyone knows Aurier's weaknesses, but under the right manager and with an actual defensive midfielder protecting them, this set of players is certainly no worse than most.

 

[rossdapep]

Keeping Poch would have led to a relegation fight. I’m sorry to say we were going nowhere but downwards. I’m not going to go round the houses with a conversation that’s been had a hundred times since he’s gone. If you can’t see the direction we were going under him there’s no point.

Poch was struggling to not only galavanise the team but galvanize himself. He was swapping personnel every week and was swapping system every game.

He didn't know how to fix the slide and by all accounts had lost that drive.

Probably due to a mixture of fighting hard for 4 years and coming so close, seeing big players leave (want to leave) but not adequately replacing them and just generally being stuck inside the same situation for so long (bee told we have limited funds).

Him and the club were fatigued with one another.

If Poch comes back it needs to be years down the line. Maybe 2-3 years.

But honestly I hope he doesnt as it means we are doing better.

 

[Havre]

I think there's some truth in this. For all Levy's business savvy, he does make some odd managerial appointments and often gets swayed by signing either big names or the next big thing.

We signed Ramos because he was Mr Cup Winner at Sevilla, completely ignoring the fact that he didn't know the league or speak a lick of English.

We went for AVB even though he'd been shown up at Chelsea, because he still had that lingering 'next Mourinho' tag from his success in Portugal. He was the sexy, big name young manager on the market at the time and Levy couldn't resist.

Now we've signed Mourinho at a very questionable stage of his career even though he's the polar opposite of Poch in pretty much every single way, simply because he's Jose Mourinho.

He's the same in the transfer market - often trying to make that last minute, hail mary, hollywood signing rather than doing what's actually more logical and best for the team. Occasionally it comes off and we get a VDV, but more often than not it's a Dempsey or a Sissoko.

It is a bit of a funny problem isn't. Who is supposed to hire managers if only people capable of being the best managers can hire them? Going for "big names" (as in solid records) or "young and promising" doesn't seem like a bad strategy to me.

Go through them one by one I don't really have much of an issue with any of them:

Hoddle: Return of the hero with a solid resume. How would you not hire him?
Santini: In hindsight ridiculous, but solid resume from both club and country. And it was a time where many argued we should look outside of the UK. I was over the moon by the fact that we could attract someone like him by the time.
Jol: A bit random, but I am actually still a bit impressed that Levy was pragmatic enough to allow Jol after Santini.
Ramos: Like Santini he had the track record. How is that a problem? Again my remembering of it is that generally people couldn't believe that we could attract someone like Ramos.
Redknapp: Desperation move. Worked out better than most thought.
AVB: Still can't believe how good I thought that Porto team was. Fair looking to find another Mourinho or Wenger. How is that a problem?
Sherwood: I am just glad Levy didn't extent him.
Pochettino: Not much English, but he was OK?
Mourinho: I didn't mind the punt and still don't.

I think that is a fair mix of big names (Santini, Ramos and Mourinho). Up and coming (AVB and Pochettino). And some pragmatism with Jol and Redknapp.

The sad part is how it didn't last longer with Pochettino and partly Jol. Not sure who to "blame" for that. How many last that much longer?

As for who do you hire if you are not hiring big names and the "next big thing"? Was Klopp a big name coming to Liverpool? Should we stay away from Nagelsmann?

I also think one will see almost regardless of which team it is that a list of managers from 2001 will be a very mixed bag. Even City, RM, Barcelona, BM etc. will have a very very mixed bag. Doesn't mean you can't criticize Levy for that list, but I think it is half decent and would challenge anyone to find more then 1-2 clubs at our standing since 2001 with a better one overall.

 

[NEVILLEB]

It's been performing poorly, but is it actually that bad? Toby was one of the best CBs in the league for years, Sanchez has the raw attributes to be a very good CB and was a key part of our defence in 17-18 which was excellent, while Davies is solid if unspectacular. The jury is still out on Dier at CB, and everyone knows Aurier's weaknesses, but under the right manager and with an actual defensive midfielder protecting them, this set of players is certainly no worse than most.

The back four from last night were all backups a few years ago. I’m not sure any of them have got their current position on merit. More lack of alternatives.

 

[spursfan77]

Who said I want to discuss it with you?

You asked me! ?

only because I thought you might give us a suitable option!

 

[Cochise]

I'm not gonna turn on Jose just yet. Two managers struggling with the same bunch of players and the same mistakes being made in defence points to deficiencies in the playing staff.

IMO we have too many dumb fucks out there who cannot defend well no matter how many hours on the training field are spent with them.

 

[NEVILLEB]

only because I thought you might give us a suitable option!

No chance! ?

If I was Daniel Levy I’d fix the transfer strategy and stop wasting money sacking Managers.

 

[HodisGawd]

It is a bit of a funny problem isn't. Who is supposed to hire managers if only people capable of being the best managers can hire them? Going for "big names" (as in solid records) or "young and promising" doesn't seem like a bad strategy to me.

Go through them one by one I don't really have much of an issue with any of them:

Hoddle: Return of the hero with a solid resume. How would you not hire him?
Santini: In hindsight ridiculous, but solid resume from both club and country. And it was a time where many argued we should look outside of the UK. I was over the moon by the fact that we could attract someone like him by the time.
Jol: A bit random, but I am actually still a bit impressed that Levy was pragmatic enough to allow Jol after Santini.
Ramos: Like Santini he had the track record. How is that a problem? Again my remembering of it is that generally people couldn't believe that we could attract someone like Ramos.
Redknapp: Desperation move. Worked out better than most thought.
AVB: Still can't believe how good I thought that Porto team was. Fair looking to find another Mourinho or Wenger. How is that a problem?
Sherwood: I am just glad Levy didn't extent him.
Pochettino: Not much English, but he was OK?
Mourinho: I didn't mind the punt and still don't.

I think that is a fair mix of big names (Santini, Ramos and Mourinho). Up and coming (AVB and Pochettino). And some pragmatism with Jol and Redknapp.

The sad part is how it didn't last longer with Pochettino and partly Jol. Not sure who to "blame" for that. How many last that much longer?

As for who do you hire if you are not hiring big names and the "next big thing"? Was Klopp a big name coming to Liverpool? Should we stay away from Nagelsmann?

I also think one will see almost regardless of which team it is that a list of managers from 2001 will be a very mixed bag. Even City, RM, Barcelona, BM etc. will have a very very mixed bag. Doesn't mean you can't criticize Levy for that list, but I think it is half decent and would challenge anyone to find more then 1-2 clubs at our standing since 2001 with a better one overall.

This is a really good comment. The same could be said for most of the signings we've made. Most have made perfect sense at the time. People like Paulinho and Soldado looked like excellent buys, but were just transfers that didn't work out. The answer to why these managers and players didn't work out is never as simple as "we just should never have bought them in in the first place".

 

[NEVILLEB]

This is a really good comment. The same could be said for most of the signings we've made. Most have made perfect sense at the time. People like Paulinho and Soldado looked like excellent buys, but were just transfers that didn't work out. The answer to why these managers and players didn't work out is never as simple as "we just should never have bought them in in the first place".

Soldado didn’t look suited to the Premier League. Lacked real pace and physically slight. Never understood that buy.