Col_M
Pointing out the Obvious
- Feb 28, 2012
- 22,788
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is that correct? I thought they effectively went out of business so what we have is a “new” Rangers who had to start from the bottom.
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Can we take a moment to laugh heartily at Everton?
- Thread starter King of Otters
- Start date
is that correct? I thought they effectively went out of business so what we have is a “new” Rangers who had to start from the bottom.
Was the Rangers issue more with how they were avoiding paying tax?
Not the same as the clubs mentioned above
spursfan77
Well-Known Member
- Aug 13, 2005
- 46,700
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I couldn’t guess which way the Man City and Chelsea (if investigated) cases go but if they are found guilty and all the clubs can sue them for losses could we be in a position where their owners just put the clubs in administration and call it a day rather than being forced to pay off all the fines and money owed?
McFlash
In the corner, eating crayons.
- Oct 19, 2005
- 12,990
- 46,615
Are they a common thing in contracts?
I wouldn't have thought that they're much of a consideration for the big clubs.
I mean, I doubt many players would join Liverpool and either party would insist on a relegation clause because it's highly unlikely to ever be an issue.
McFlash
In the corner, eating crayons.
- Oct 19, 2005
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Yeah, I think/thought that Rangers went tits up financially and had to start all over again as effectively a new club
Not sure the Scottish League were the ones who forced them down, more that as a new club they had to start at the bottom.
1882andallthat
Well-Known Member
- Feb 2, 2009
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You are right in saying that the rule breaches were different but its the principle of the authorities in the PL having the gumption to challenge those at the very top of the tree.
Whichever way you look at it punishing one of the very big establishment powerhouses was bold. What I'm saying is that we're all pretty fed up with the PL not having the guts to really punish someone right at the very top, they don't seem to have the appetite and strength to be so bold to issue punishment right at the top in this way.
1882andallthat
Well-Known Member
- Feb 2, 2009
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As I've said in response to other posts, the breaches are different I accept that but what happened in Scotland was a significantly bold step and was the equivalent of the Spanish punishing Real Madrid or Barcelona and relegating them down 3 divisions.
We all know that the Spanish FA or the PL are too scared of the size of some of these real juggernauts and wouldn't dare mete out punishments like that even if it was the right and most appropriate thing to do.
McFlash
In the corner, eating crayons.
- Oct 19, 2005
- 12,990
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But again, was it not really the case that they weren't punished by the Scottish FA but more that the club folded and had to start again as a new club, so had to start at the bottom of the ladder again.
It was more complicated than just cheating and getting relegated because if it, they had to form as a new club and no new club goes straight into the top division.
SirHarryHotspur
Well-Known Member
- Aug 9, 2017
- 5,223
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Not strictly true the big 6 are all under a 30 point deduction suspended sentence.
Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United and Tottenham also agreed to accept fines of about £20m each and 30-point deductions if they join a similar unsanctioned competition in the future -- a punishment that would have seen Arsenal and Spurs relegated during the 2019-20 campaign.
1882andallthat
Well-Known Member
- Feb 2, 2009
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A suspended sentence in this case was meaningless and merely symbolic to create the impression the authorities were doing something because there was such a backlash about this, when in reality they nothing happened, these six clubs didn't suffer real and tangible punishment.
Suspended sentences are a very poor halfway house of a measure and if Chelsea and Man City are handed hefty sentences which are then suspended, when Everton actually get a sizable points deduction it will merely confirm what most of us suspect. That football authorities in the main are too afraid to confront the worst offenders who have the deepest pockets.
They are used when the authorities want to create the impression that they are doing something when in reality they're not, such a measure would be a symbolic fudge and kop out.
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SirHarryHotspur
Well-Known Member
- Aug 9, 2017
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The points deduction might be symbolic but to say that parting with 20 million quid is not a real and tangible punishment is a bit strange , that amount of money would buy us another Sarr or Udogie.
The authorities are trying to do something about it as UEFA proved when trying to ban Man C but unfortunately they couldn't prove beyond all doubt that Man City were receiving state aid at CAS
The Premier League have spent four years investigating Man C so are confronting the offenders by now charging them with over one hundred offences .
Under PL rules the PL board doesn't act as judge and jury and decide on a punishment in the same way that UEFA did, the charges go before an independent commission for investigation and if proven the commission will no doubt make a points deduction as has happened with Everton.
The PL must also have taken into consideration the evidence put before CAS by UEFA the fact they have still charged Man C with over one hundred offences makes me think they might be confident of getting some of the charges proved.
On the £20 million fine did Levy get clever and pay with these
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1882andallthat
Well-Known Member
- Feb 2, 2009
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You make some very good points, but after years and in Chelsea's case decades of systematically running rings around the authorities and laughing in their faces, and picking up hoards of trophies I've seen no real and tangible evidence before me that leads me to believe that Chelsea and Man City will be properly and effectively punished in the way that they should be punished, and this collective failure to properly punish them in a proportionate and effective way is only serving to encourage new players into the mix and upstarts like Newcastle already think this sort of behaviour and path to go down is well worth the risk.
What sort of deterrent is this sending out to Chelsea and Man City get them to properly adjust and effectively refrain from what they're doing when the likes of Newcastle think - ah well we too can join the same club as those to cheating clubs have done and we too will be rewarded by getting similar hoards pf silverware, because the authorities won't do that much even if we're caught out.
Until I see real and proportionate action taken against being taken Chelsea and Man City, and until I see real and effective actions and punishments actually being meted out on them for what they have done, I'm reluctant to believe that these excessive ways and tactics won't be properly consigned to where they deserve to be consigned to.
Maybe you're right and they will properly and eventually get what they deserve, but it's the eventually bit that's troubling me that wonders if that day of reckoning will ever truly come for them both.
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fishhhandaricecake
Well-Known Member
- Nov 15, 2018
- 19,541
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Anyone know why so much delay with city’s investigation?
Is it because of the volume of charges (115) or something else?
Is it because of the volume of charges (115) or something else?
fishhhandaricecake
Well-Known Member
- Nov 15, 2018
- 19,541
- 48,821
Didn’t Juve get stripped of some titles at one point? If so did they then go to the runners up or just no-one won them that year?
fishhhandaricecake
Well-Known Member
- Nov 15, 2018
- 19,541
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Just found this, when Juve were stripped of their title no one won it that year
Why the Serie A Scudetto was not awarded in 2004: The Calciopoli Scandal
The Controversial Decision That Shook Italian Football and Led to a New Era of Fair Play
www.kickest.it
BuryMeInEngland
Polish that cock lads
- May 24, 2012
- 11,152
- 27,906
Dear Santa,
I don't want much this year but I have been a very good boy so if possible I'd like you to fuck Man City and Chelsea very hard and have them relegated to the Championship.
Thanks, the mince pies will be out for you.
I don't want much this year but I have been a very good boy so if possible I'd like you to fuck Man City and Chelsea very hard and have them relegated to the Championship.
Thanks, the mince pies will be out for you.
Bluto Blutarsky
Well-Known Member
- Mar 4, 2021
- 15,289
- 71,163
Just found this, when Juve were stripped of their title no one won it that year
Why the Serie A Scudetto was not awarded in 2004: The Calciopoli Scandal
The Controversial Decision That Shook Italian Football and Led to a New Era of Fair Play
I would not recognize a title won simply as a result of another team being stripped of their title.
Titles and trophies are won on the pitch, not in some court room after the fact.
BorjeSpurs
Well-Known Member
- Jun 29, 2007
- 3,307
- 18,598
I agree they can't be won after the fact, but they can be lost.
spursfan77
Well-Known Member
- Aug 13, 2005
- 46,700
- 104,989
Turns out that had they sold Gordon to us when we bid £25m for him they would have been able to put that money towards FFP but as they sold him to Newcastle for £45m in the next January they couldn’t as it was outside the accounting periods. So they just kept on shooting themselves in the foot repeatedly. How anyone can have any sympathy with them is beyond me.