Jose Mourinho

Wheeler Dealer said:

Was he ever a tactically astute coach?. He managed the best teams with the best players and had the biggest amount of cash to operate with. I'm pretty sure most managers given the tools that Mourinho had they would deliver the same level of silverware.

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He won the Champions League with Porto. No one from outside the top 5 leages has done it since.

Granted he had massive budgets since but that for me is the modern equivalent of Forest in 79 and 80.

Wheeler Dealer said:

Was he ever a tactically astute coach?. He managed the best teams with the best players and had the biggest amount of cash to operate with. I'm pretty sure most managers given the tools that Mourinho had they would deliver the same level of silverware.

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Yes, he entered the PL stage with a revolutionising take on tactics at a time when
most clubs played Tim Sherwood football. The failure he is guilty of, is to attribute success to the wrong source. He thinks his tactics won him fame, and as such tactics can’t be touched. When in fact what brought him fame was being a revolutionary in the game, and that’s the trait he should have carried forward to today.

ginola99 said:

He won the Champions League with Porto. No one from outside the top 5 leages has done it since.

Granted he had massive budgets since but that for me is the modern equivalent of Forest in 79 and 80.

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Agree.

The thing is we don't really respect managers who win with money in this country.

Jose had great success with Porto, 1st stint at Chelsea and Inter. He delivered success to them more than any other manager in recent times. More than his predecessors and successors. But as he spent money many just write this off like it is no achievement at all to win at the very top.

Wheeler Dealer said:

Was he ever a tactically astute coach?. He managed the best teams with the best players and had the biggest amount of cash to operate with. I'm pretty sure most managers given the tools that Mourinho had they would deliver the same level of silverware.

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Listen, I can’t wait till the day he sods off, but you cannot dismiss his achievements like that. He 100% was at the tactical forefront of the game in the 2000s and had one of the most effective counters to tiki-taka.

Yes, he’s had access to the best players, but so has Pep, Fergie, etc, etc.

Personally the trophies (or lack of) don't really bother me. I just want to see Spurs attempt to play football on the front foot and actively go at teams, even at the expense of a few defeats along the way.

We also need to go back to developing players and improving them. JM is going to hinder us in that regard even after he has gone as the commitment to pay his salary will hinder us in transfer market and wage budget terms.

chavkev said:

Personally the trophies (or lack of) don't really bother me. I just want to see Spurs attempt to play football on the front foot and actively go at teams, even at the expense of a few defeats along the way.

We also need to go back to developing players and improving them. JM is going to hinder us in that regard even after he has gone as the commitment to pay his salary will hinder us in transfer market and wage budget terms.

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For years we wanted CL football then Redknapp and Poch delivered it.

Then we got desperate for trophies after a long period without any.

The biggest positive of Jose's time here is the reminder is that none of the success matters if you don't enjoy watching your team play.

chavkev said:

Personally the trophies (or lack of) don't really bother me. I just want to see Spurs attempt to play football on the front foot and actively go at teams, even at the expense of a few defeats along the way.

We also need to go back to developing players and improving them. JM is going to hinder us in that regard even after he has gone as the commitment to pay his salary will hinder us in transfer market and wage budget terms.

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I wouldn't mind both. Personally, trophies are important as there is no point in being involved in competition if not for winning the big prizes but we haven't progressed under Jose so therefore there is no point in having this style of football - if style it could be called - for nothing.

Mark_147 said:

Probably means he stays until the end of the season if we win and gets sacked on the Monday if we lose.

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Personally, I wouldn’t complain if we won the cup and he got the boot the next day.

It seems incredible that as you say lesser lights than him delivered CL football
but it seems once again we will miss out.

dontcallme said:

For years we wanted CL football then Redknapp and Poch delivered it.

Then we got desperate for trophies after a long period without any.

The biggest positive of Jose's time here is the reminder is that none of the success matters if you don't enjoy watching your team play.

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Spot on mate.

Wheeler Dealer said:

Was he ever a tactically astute coach?. He managed the best teams with the best players and had the biggest amount of cash to operate with. I'm pretty sure most managers given the tools that Mourinho had they would deliver the same level of silverware.

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We're now at the anti-jose stage when we re-write the history of football in the past two decades

I think we need to stop blaming players because everyone looks shit under Jose bar kane.

No one has improved under Mourinho, if anything majority of the squad have looked worse.

And all the talk of Mourinho improving Ndombele is bullshit only an idiot would believe that, in my opinion.

I suspect a 'cunning plan here.
Finish in the Europa Conference spot
7th. I think
win it and get a trophy
that's a trophy not atrophy
and gain automatic entry to the year after next's
Europa League.

Jobs a good 'un.

shelfmonkey said:

Getting to any final is meaningless unless you win it, finishing second IS NOT an achievement, unless you live in PC, woke, Leftie world!!

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Why would being woke ever be an insult lol. Being conscious of other people is just basic human decency. Weird

dontcallme said:

Agree.

The thing is we don't really respect managers who win with money in this country.

Jose had great success with Porto, 1st stint at Chelsea and Inter. He delivered success to them more than any other manager in recent times. More than his predecessors and successors. But as he spent money many just write this off like it is no achievement at all to win at the very top.

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I agree with this.

It's easy to spend money but you need to buy the right players and through the majority of his career Jose and his clubs have bought well and in the right areas.

Unfortunately, United and Spurs have generally bought poorly during Jose's reign and have suffered the consequences.

Now some of that is Jose's fault but I would say in the most part the clubs have not given him the players he wanted.

With a coach like Jose who has a certain way of playing that requires the right type of personnel and it will always be a disaster if the club fails to provide.

shelfmonkey said:

Getting to any final is meaningless unless you win it, finishing second IS NOT an achievement, unless you live in PC, woke, Leftie world!!

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shelfmonkey destroys SJW feminist gays

dontcallme said:

Agree.

The thing is we don't really respect managers who win with money in this country.

Jose had great success with Porto, 1st stint at Chelsea and Inter. He delivered success to them more than any other manager in recent times. More than his predecessors and successors. But as he spent money many just write this off like it is no achievement at all to win at the very top.

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Yep agree. People are far too black and white with Jose as he’s such a divisive figure.

They either say that he’s one of the best ever and a serial winner and laud all his trophies or they say that he only won because of money, the truth is somewhere in between because everything in football is clearer with context!

•Porto - with their resources to win the UEFA cup then Champions League back to back was an absolutely incredible achievement

•Chelsea 1st time - he got them their first league time in many a year and he revolutionised the league when everyone played 4-4-2 and he came in and played this counter attacking 4-3-3 and teams couldn’t handle it BUT the league was far far weaker tactically and in terms of overall quality back then so with the warchest of money he had to basically pick any player he wanted and given Man.U were the only credible rivals it was a good achievement sure but not particularly spectacular given the money and quality of player he had vs the rest of the league at the time. But at the time his tactics and aura led him to glory

•Inter Milan - that treble was an incredible achievement and again at that time his tactics and aura were still carrying him well

THEN IT ALL CHANGED!
•Real Madrid - yes they won the league with 100 points or goals or whatever it was but that team/squad he has was absolutely phenomenal and apart from Barcelona they had very little strong competition in the league at the time and apart from the year he won the league Barcelona got the better of them more often than not and Jose was starting to get left behind a bit tactically vs Pep and so resorted to a lot of dirty tactics on and off the pitch to try and level the playing field. He also fell out with quite a few top players and this was the start of toxic Jose

•Chelsea 2nd time - he timed this move well, like a good salesman walking into a strong pipeline of deals, he knew that certain teams were re-building at the time so if he could improve an already strong Chelsea side that was used to winning and galvanise them he had a strong chance at the title and they signed Fabregas, Costa and Courtious I think it was and at the time had yet again the strongest or 2nd strongest squad in the league but to be fair decent achievement and that Chelsea side played some ok stuff. But again very heavily resourced squad and top top players. Then he fell out with the physio and the team sunk to 14th I think it was and were in freefall, he’d created a toxic environment and had to go.

•Man.U - mixed bag here. On one hand he can point to the two trophies he won with let’s face it certainly not one of the best man.u squads in recent times BUT still one which he was given hundreds of millions to spend on it! The cons were the football was horrible to watch, the Man.U fans hated every minute of it as it didn’t suit their club and he fell out with Pogba and others, was horrid to Luke Shaw and in the end had them languishing in 6th, players confidence shot, fans in despair and then he had a complete meltdown in the media with the football heritage and 3 titles for me rants and ultimately was sacked.

We all know how it has gone with us. It started ok he got a tune out of Dele etc and this season we were top of the league for a bit but you always felt the results weren’t sustainable playing as we were and that Son & Kane were carrying us a bit, we were too negative, sat back on leads, had little plan with the ball apart from the counter attack via Kane&Son and slowly but slowly the results and performances have gone to shit, more and more players have looked utterly dejected and fed up and it’s just become yet again a toxic mess.

So the reality is you cannot and shouldn’t discredit or take away some of his achievements especially at Porto and Inter Milan but after that he’s also managed some of the very best and richest most well resourced clubs in the world in Chelsea, Man.U and Real Madrid and he’s done ok with them but also left them all in a bit of a negative mess, some more so than others and it seems that his career is on a downward trajectory and that his tactics and man management have started to become dated just as the quality of other teams and managers has improved and so his aura has also kept fading a combination of which means he’s not getting the best out of squads of players and with us he’s underperforming.

Archibald&Crooks said:

Putting aside the needless part of your post, your response seemingly didn't consider or even address what he actually meant did it. Which is probably why you received the ratings you got for your reply.

Meh, I don't care. Don't even know why i'm bothering explaining it, I must be having a metrosexual cycle in my biorhythms

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doctor stefan Freud said:

shelfmonkey destroys SJW feminist gays

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Don’t forget about Marxists.

dontcallme said:

If you take other managers of Chelsea and yes most delivered silverware. But Jose was by far their most successful manager. He clearly did something right.

At the beginning of the season we were nullifying the opposition's chances and winning off Son and Kane. It might not have been the most attractive way to play but it was effective up to around November.

I remember watching us lose 2-1 to Liverpool and thinking they only scored from a set piece and a deflection and created little else whereas we scored from a one on one and Bergwijn missed 2 great chances and if I remember rightly Kane missed a good chance too. It appeared something good to build on.

But then we went downhill. Started giving away goals and Son's goals dried up a little. There's been little sign of turning it around since.

I had such high hopes for Jose and this season.

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Wish we just carried on this in way, really not sure how things went so sideways. We looked so solid defensively.