Jose Mourinho

Tucker · Oct 3, 2020

NEVILLEB said:
The best thing Mourinho has done is to pressure Levy to get these transfers done.

It’s been a great window.

I don’t think it’s been pressure as much as setting realistic, pragmatic targets. The Mendes factor has been huge for us too. We all know Levy loves a deal, and getting Doherty for £12 million, and Vinícius for £3 million on loan are two deals he’d have loved making imo. I also think many clubs have been more willing to do creative deals this year too due to the financial pressures of COVID.

lookofdisdain · Oct 3, 2020

Couldn’t find a dedicated thread but heard a rumour/Twitter ITK that Ledley has left his coaching role - anyone else heard anything?

lookofdisdain · Oct 3, 2020

lookofdisdain said:
Couldn’t find a dedicated thread but heard a rumour/Twitter ITK that Ledley has left his coaching role - anyone else heard anything?

Or not

rez9000 · Oct 3, 2020

lookofdisdain said:
Couldn’t find a dedicated thread but heard a rumour/Twitter ITK that Ledley has left his coaching role - anyone else heard anything?

Other than JJetset, isn’t that a contradiction in terms...?

Hotspur88 · Oct 3, 2020

Poor from Lampard in the interview he just had. Said he wouldn't be getting in any touchline spats with Roy as he has too much respect for him. Yes Lampard did a lot for Jose but Jose also did a lot for Lampard and the lack of respect is very poor on his part.

Legacy · Oct 3, 2020

RichieS said:
Ndombele (who we waited a year for having been unable to hijack his permanent move from Amiens to Lyon iirc), Lo Celso and ...?

As I was writing, I remembered you saying that it was de Jong or no-one for CM, de Ligt or no-one for CB etc. But, as an example, I also believe we could've got Pereira (as we were told Poche wanted by, I think, JJetset) the summer we swapped Walker for Serge if we had been willing/able to overpay. As it was, we had c.£25m to spend on a RB and Porto can't have been willing to sell him for that until the summer after, else we would surely have bought him. I'm fine with that personally, I just don't think 100% (or even the majority) of the blame lies squarely at any one person's door.

Sessegnon? We tried to sign him the season before he did sign, didn't we? But he signed a new contract with Fulham following their promotion.

glacierSpurs · Oct 3, 2020

Hotspur88 said:
Poor from Lampard in the interview he just had. Said he wouldn't be getting in any touchline spats with Roy as he has too much respect for him. Yes Lampard did a lot for Jose but Jose also did a lot for Lampard and the lack of respect is very poor on his part.

Keep doing that Fat, no I mean Frank. It just shows how small time he is! Geez. Move on FFS...

CowInAComa · Oct 3, 2020

wrd said:
I think the sheer consistency of Liverpool coupled with the fact we've already dropped 5 points from a possibly 9 makes it difficult to see us going at the league. We would need to go on a run that includes Liverpool dropping 5 more points than us from now until the end of the season. Given their consistency as I say, makes it very difficult to see.

I dont think we are going to realistically title challenge this season.

But I do think its funny youve written off a 5 point gap as insurmountable after 3 games.

SpursAddict · Oct 3, 2020

Levy has backed him. Jose will have no excuses, as he now has all the tools needed (more-so if Skriniar joins) to succeed this year. Top 4 and silverware should be achievable, and I'm confident he will deliver.

vegassd · Oct 3, 2020

SpursD22 said:
So if we continue to back Jose next summer and he doesn’t win the league or the CL hasn’t he failed? Because he’s being backed, earns a lot and we were close with Poch so we brought him in to get us to the finishing line

I would say that is an over-simplification and I'm confident you know it is as well.

My view of success in this sort of context is if we are being competitive or not. If we're looking at this season and next then there are 6 domestic trophies available to win with 6 very talented teams competing for them, plus the "lesser" teams who also have a fair shake. If we don't win any of those 6 trophies that doesn't instantly equate to failure as long as we were competitive in them. That might mean reaching semi-finals on a reasonably consistent basis or scoring 80+ points in the league.

I know that some fans think there's no point coming second and that losing a cup final is still just losing - and that's fair enough - but I personally think that's a bit of a facile way to look at it. Football is a competitive environment with all sorts of moving parts. One bad day or even one bad decision can put you out of a competition so it's not an absolute way of measuring the success of a manager or team.

For me, the best way to measure Mourinho's success over the next couple of years will be heavily based on Kane. Can he do enough with our team to convince Kane to stick around and that he can win things with Spurs? Can Mourinho bring enough experience/balls/mentality into the dressing room to turn us into potential winners so that top class players would want to be here?

CowInAComa · Oct 3, 2020

Both Arry* and Poch exceeded their expectations anyone would have had going in to the job. You cant compare apples with oranges, different times have didnt targets. things are dynamic.

Poch gave us a period of being the best team in the country, title challenges and Champions league finals over 4-5 years of his management, far exceeding anything any Spurs fan would have asked for on day one.

* Though, watching back some Bale highlights of his first stint here had me thinking that perhaps a team of Bale, Modric and VdV should probably have achieved a bit more back then, in hindsight, but at the time our ambitions were a lot lower.

wrd · Oct 3, 2020

CowInAComa said:
I dont think we are going to realistically title challenge this season.

But I do think its funny youve written off a 5 point gap as insurmountable after 3 games.

It's more the quality of Liverpool relative to ours and it's hard to see how they drop 6 more points than we do over the course of the season

buckley · Oct 3, 2020

I have an idea to save fixture congestion and that is because a lot of people think that after 4 or 5 games you will not overcome any deficit then why not have the league over 5 games instead of 38 it would save a lot of undue effort .

Tucker · Oct 3, 2020

Hotspur88 said:
Poor from Lampard in the interview he just had. Said he wouldn't be getting in any touchline spats with Roy as he has too much respect for him. Yes Lampard did a lot for Jose but Jose also did a lot for Lampard and the lack of respect is very poor on his part.

I don’t think he meant it like that. No one wants to see a fairly young guy having a go at a gentle old man like Woy. Plus Hodgson isn’t that kind of manager.

shelfboy68 · Oct 3, 2020

fishhhandaricecake said:
I don't get your point though as I said he didn't have the same level of control of backing at Man.U as he's had here, I said that he spent a fair bit of money but he was crying out for a top class CB amongst other things and Ed Woodward didn't sign off on them whereas this summer he's had full reign to basically build a whole new-look first team and squad. As ITK's said at the start of the tw Jose gave a lot of realistic targets and to be fair Levy seems to have gone and got pretty much all of them and Bale is a bonus so the control he's had here to actually build a squad to his suiting has been better, he had to put up with Phil Jones, Lingard and others for quite a while and still ended up 2nd and won 2.5 trophies and no manager after fergie either before or after jose since has come close to that at Man.U.

Basically what I was saying is general football fans often don't put things into perspective and understand the reality of situations and they just go off the media narrative that he played boring football and was sacked, that is just a media spin but if you look at the reality and the facts jose has been a success absolutely everywhere he's been and i'd argue no manager in history has been as consistent in achieving so much with so many different clubs across different leagues.

Also this narrative that he needs to spend big to be successful is also too black and white, yes he has done that for example at Chelsea in his first spell and he made a few big money signings at Man.U but he also won the UEFA Cup and CL on a shoestring budget at Porto, he won the treble with Inter not spending obscene amounts, he won the league with real madrid against the best Barcelona side of all time, like any manager he wants the best players he can get but aside from the money what needs to be recognised is that Mourinho is exceptionally good at knowing how to put together the right ingredients to create a winning squad (notice I say squad and not just team).
A good example of this is at Chelsea when he asked for Abramovic to sign Drogba and he laughed and said who.. and said really you want me to sign this guy for you, you can basically have any striker in the world are you sure you want him? And Jose just said trust me, if we sign him we will win the league, if you want to be successful which I think is why you brought me here then just trust me.

Jose is by no means perfect and I think he's learnt a bit from a few of his biggest 'mistakes' such as some player fallings out at Real Madrid, the Chelsea physio incident, falling out with Pogba but also the choice to take the Man.U job actually not being the right one, if you watch the two below interviews with Jose it will help you to understand him better and he basically says in as many words that the Man.U job for a number of reasons was not the right job for him and that is why he is happy to wait enough time for the right opportunity for his next job which will be a better fit.

Jose loves being the underdog, people who don't properly follow him or aren't deeply into football just your general fan will go along with the media narrative of him spending big and playing boring football but that is very much not the full story and we are so far seeing what a good fit he can be when he's in the right environment and is given enough freedom to build and mould a squad.

As long as there are no huge fallings out with players etc which I can't see as very likely anytime soon given the two games this week it looks like he's got all 25 of the players to buy into giving 110% so if we avoid any big fallings out I think with the squad he's building we have a hell of a chance of winning something.

COYS

Fascinating watches on the special one:

7min in "The season Leicester won it, Tottenham could've won it..." he knew then the potential of our club.

Many people seem to think that Jose is just park the bus football, and on occasions such as when he managed inter to the CL final they did that to overcome Barca and also in the final no problems with that.
But his Chelsea teams along with the Madrid one were devastating in attack, especially when he was managing Madrid they won la Liga with record goals and points.
At the moment we are more expansive than I thought we would be but at the same time we haven't settled properly as a defensive unit which we will do at some point.
I think levy has played a blinder in both appointing and backing him, I'm sure we are now on the edge of success this season.

Gilzeanking · Oct 3, 2020

shelfboy68 said:
I think levy has played a blinder in both appointing and backing him, I'm sure we are now on the edge of success this season.

A 2-0 defeat at Utd would dispel this idea in an instant

shelfboy68 · Oct 3, 2020

Gilzeanking said:
A 2-0 defeat at Utd would dispel this idea in an instant

Yes I guess so lol

DJS · Oct 3, 2020

sausage said:
For some reason I enjoyed the Redknapp era more. I know we didn't win every game, but I found his management more 'agreeable'. Maybe it's my bad memory, as I didn't use or read forums at all until well after AVB had gone. I feel that what Harry did for us (including being the catalyst for Kane and so many others) is always completely ignored (or wholly under-appreciated) in the context of what Poch did for us.

Was a great shame with ‘Arry as of he hasn’t taken eye off ball for England job and fucked up during that season Levy wouldn’t have sacked him.

Was very daft of him.

But then we wouldn’t have eventually gotten Poch so hey ho!

sausage · Oct 3, 2020

DJS said:
Was a great shame with ‘Arry as of he hasn’t taken eye off ball for England job and fucked up during that season Levy wouldn’t have sacked him.

Was very daft of him.

But then we wouldn’t have eventually gotten Poch so hey ho!

As I've said before, it's the problem with causality. Most, if not all, of the screwups led to us having Kane. I just can't see how he would have got near a chance if it wasn't for Soldado being crap, Adebayor being a nuisance, and Sherwood's hubris.

It's the same with a lot of stuff really - it all tends to have that kind of path of "if it wasn't for this bad thing, we wouldn't have any of these things". That's what tends to annoy me when people want to edit history and say "if only we got player x then we would have won the league".

On a side note, imagine how dull AON would have been if we just had an 'average' (for expectations) season and finished 4th, as per, with no big incidents in the season.

freeeki · Oct 3, 2020

When you look at what Mourinho and Levy have achieved this window in terms of signings - and that's without CL football, and with the uncertainty surrounding COVID-19 and ongoing revenue streams - it's hard not to get excited about the players we could attract if/when we get back into the UCL and have 60,000 fans in the stadium again every week.

The suggestions that Mourinho can't work on restricted budgets are starting to look unfounded - of course we're yet to see if it pays off, but so far so good. His stint at Manchester United is beginning to look like an anomaly more and more as time progresses. Jose has had a lot of criticism for spending huge money at United and not achieving much, which is a reasonable criticism on the surface, but unfair when you dig into the detail IMO.

Firstly, United have been splurging money up the walls since the day Ferguson left, to try and remain competitive. David Moyes spent £70m combined on Mata and Fellaini - huge transfer fees when you consider that's now over 7 years ago. Van Gaal... well, where to begin? LVG signed 14 players at United, for a combined total of around £320m, and won... 1 FA Cup (not to put a dampener on it, a trophy is a trophy, but in that FA Cup campaign they faced Derby, Shrewsbury, Sheff Utd, West Ham, Everton and Palace...).

Then you reach the Jose era - 11 players signed, for a combined total of just over £400m (bear in mind that quarter of that went on Paul Pogba, who Mourinho allegedly never wanted in the first place). An astronomical sum of money, but the one massive purchase Jose wanted - Romelu Lukaku - was a great success at United, despite tiresome media spin against him. Played 96, scored 42. And of course, there was Zlatan on a free - played 53, scored 29. Jose's overall record - three trophies (including the Community Shield), a 2nd-placed finish, and the only manager in United history to win a trophy in his first season.

Finally - Solskjaer. To date, he has spent £229m on 5 players, and achieved... well, very little. A 3rd placed finish, sure. but 15 points off 2nd and 33 points off 1st.

In summary, United's record in the post-Ferguson era... 4 trophies, just over £1bn spent in transfer fees, with a net spend of just over £700m.

My point is this - throwing money at problems in order to become successful is not a Mourinho trait, as many like to believe. It is very much a Manchester United trait. Not only do Woodward and the United board have to answer to a spoilt, entitled fanbase for whom a Europa League and League Cup win in the same season is considered a failure; they also have to answer to the New York Stock Exchange, while being seen to "keep up with the Joneses" where their oil-rich neighbours are concerned. If United don't spend, they are crucified for it - the local press in Manchester are going ballistic over their current window. If they do spend, the minimum expectation is that they win the league, anything else is considered a failure.

As we're now seeing at Spurs, Jose can and will work to a limited budget, and I think he has a renewed determination now to prove to all the naysayers that the issue in Manchester was, in fact, Manchester United - not him. He never liked it at United, you can see that when you look at the difference between his press conferences then, and his press conferences now. In truth he didn't even like Manchester much, hence never buying a house here and living in the Lowry Hotel for over two years.

What we're now seeing is a fired-up Jose with a point to prove, at the helm of a club with many points to prove. This is the best transfer window I've ever seen us have, if we manage to get Skriniar in then that's a massive bonus. Jose on his day is still the best in the world IMO, the one thing he's never really done is built a lasting legacy somewhere. I'd love this to be the place he does it.

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