The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - RETRO Edition 14th September 2020

tommyt · Sep 14, 2020

Re: trixs 2nd post. If Levy doesn't push the boat out for Jose will he ever? Pivotal few weeks ahead.

freeeki · Sep 14, 2020

tommyt said:
Re: trixs 2nd post. If Levy doesn't push the boat out for Jose will he ever? Pivotal few weeks ahead.

No.

BringBack_leGin · Sep 14, 2020

Trix said:
Very small % of fans on the forums. If this was a PR exercise the tabloids would have been on this by now.

Forgetting Bale because that's a different kettle of fish....
If Jose doesn't get what he wants this window I'm done with Levy. I don't post spin(my info doesn't come from a place spin would exist) but I do omit some stuff as I feel at times it's counter productive.

Jose unlike Poch has given a decent list of players he wants and needs. None of them should be out of our range money wise, so there can imo be no excuses for not getting him at least his minimum requirements.

If he doesn't get at least that it's open season as far as I'm concerned.

I think we’re all in this boat. Thankfully, as it stands neither you nor other itks have suggested that this will transpire so unless something has massively changed, I think we’ll get that striker. My bad mood from yesterday (I’ve apologised to my neighbour for some of the profanity her dad heard from my house as they were eating dinner in her garden) isn’t going to suddenly make me pessimistic about our chances of getting that striker until you or one of the others poo poos it. Bale, beautiful thought that’d be, was only ever going to be a bonus.

Stoof said:
It's like no-one ever watched Spurs in the late 90s and early 2000s. That's why people defend him.

But not for this thread, eh.

As @King of Otters said, I wonder whether he is actually worried about Jose being a busted flush. Like finally dating that hot girl you've been after for ages, only for her to turn out to be just plain crazy and not in any way a sexual deviant.

Issue is, unless he gives Jose the tools to prove one way or another what he’s capable of, it’s not ab even platform. I personally think that despite yesterday’s atrocity, we do have enough in all other areas of the pitch to have a good season with even a slightly passed it Jose, but only if we are able to field a centre forward constantly. That means that signing someone good enough for our line up so we don’t have to get Harry crocked again is far more key than simply as reserve striker’ and even with all he goodwill I have for Levy (as like you i was reared on the 90s) I think it’ll be shoddy from him if this long-standing issue is not addressed.

PrettyColors · Sep 14, 2020

What a depressing morning. Feel like the weight of a loss in that fashion yesterday opened up the cracks in our squad's foundation for all to see. I suspect Levy is feeling a lot of pressure now, and we all know what he has done under pressure in the past.

IMO if a striker (even if it is Sorloth the average) doesn't come in by next week we are going to be looking at a worse start to the season than Poch had last year. Something must change even if just for the optics.

Tiffers · Sep 14, 2020

fishhhandaricecake said:
Thanks for sharing Trix and some strong statements from you considering you're usually so well balanced, so seems like an extremely key next 3 weeks for us (we say that every tw but this really is huge I think fans patcience is wearing extremely thin now)

The AON documentary has confirmed everything I thought about Spurs behind the scenes tbh, the football set-up of the club is just so so poor and it makes me even more think that Levy just got so lucky with Poch.

I don't question your or any other ITK's but its just incredible the amount of times we hear that we are perusing an exciting deal and then Levy messes it up its just so frustrating.

Really interesting comment about Jose's list of players being reasonable to get for a few reasons. 1) when Jose came in he said he didn't need new players but to me that seemed like he was just saying the right thing to get the players on board. 2) we as fans can clearly see the issues with the squad at the start of the window were :
1.CB to replace Jan
2.RB to upgrade on Aurier -> Doherty
3.LB to upgrade on Davies
4.DM as we had no-one in that position -> PEH
5.Creative CM : because Ndombele can't be relied upon and we sold Eriksen
6.upgrade AM/winger : because its clear that Lucas and Lamela are no where near good enough
7/8.ST : obviously just having Kane is negligence, we need at least 1 more mabye even ideally 2

The reason I list this is because of your highlighted statement.

So far we have addressed 2 out of 7/8 big weaknesses in the squad (Joe Hart is a fine signing for homegrown and experience but doesn't effect much). Now sure people will say that oh you can't sign 7/8 players in one window and not with Covid and its too many to integrate blah blah blah, the fact is we went 2 transfer windows without signing anyone so we've been playing catch-up for a long time and the squad got so so stale, and while we've gone backwards many others above and behind us have gone forwards/improved so we really do need to sign a lot of quality players to get anywhere near where we need to be.

The point is it will be interesting come 5th October to see how many other additions we've made and how many Jose actually wanted in hindsight as if we can see these issues as fans i'm sure that one of the most successful managers in football history can easily see them in which case the end of the window will be extremely telling if Jose has for example said look I need 6 players, here are the names, none will cost you the earth and if you move on 3-4 fringe players the net spend will be negligible anyway which is kind of what i'm guessing is the case given the ITK that Jose's suggestions have been more than reasonable and in budget/easily attainable. It seems like he's not doing a Poch and saying its £70m on Frankie De Jong or nothing, actually quite the opposite that the sum of its parts are the key. FWIW Doherty and PEH for me have been very good signings but its no where near enough, absolute minimum required in the remainder of the window should really be: 1) ST 2) AM 3/4) LB & CB (similar priority level) then we have to hope and pray Ndombele can step up to where we need a bloody £50m signing to be and that Lo Celso can stay fit otherwise we'd need to also move on Ndombele and replace him with a creative CM, those are the issues and it really will be interesting come Oct 5th to see what we've done compared to what Jose wanted as I'm not a fan of how Jose plays but if he's given a list of easily obtainable targets he wants to suit the way he wants us to play and Levy only delivers on say 50% of that then that is just yet again utter negligence of the highest order rinse and repeat.

We all know how this ends don't we...

Point 5 - need for creative midfielder should have the highest priority after yesterday

robertgoulet · Sep 14, 2020

My hope is that the lack of striker deal is bc of Bale's deal. I imagine (see: hope) that the strikers at the top of our list (ie Milik) have wages much higher than those at the bottom (ie Sorloth). Once Levy decides on Bale he'll have his answer as to which striker he wants. Bale in, less expensive striker in. Bale out, more expensive striker in.

OR DL is just being a muppet.

Doctor Dinkey · Sep 14, 2020

Worrying stuff but no surprise. The playing side of the club is in a prolonged decline and it’s very hard to see us doing much else than slumping into mid table irrelevance (or worse) under the current leadership for the foreseeable future.
Can’t be much bothered any more. Had enough disappointment for 30 odd years so it was great when it felt like we were going somewhere. No that is over I can’t be arsed to go through that misery all over again!

Inq · Sep 14, 2020

@Trix cheers for the info. Was hoping for some positive news. Same old levy though cocking about. Starting to realize we can only really progress without him.

Lily White Lady · Sep 14, 2020

Probably clutching at straws but what if DL needs to get a ST in before he can pull trigger with Bale. ST is certainly way more of a priority for us. 5 names in the frame are all substantially different values and probably wages. Maybe we need to know which we’re getting before we know we can afford the luxury big name signing that is Bale. I told you I was clutching!

wrd · Sep 14, 2020

BringBack_leGin said:
I think we’re all in this boat. Thankfully, as it stands neither you nor other itks have suggested that this will transpire so unless something has massively changed, I think we’ll get that striker. My bad mood from yesterday (I’ve apologised to my neighbour for some of the profanity her dad heard from my house as they were eating dinner in her garden) isn’t going to suddenly make me pessimistic about our chances of getting that striker until you or one of the others poo poos it. Bale, beautiful thought that’d be, was only ever going to be a bonus.

Issue is, unless he gives Jose the tools to prove one way or another what he’s capable of, it’s not ab even platform. I personally think that despite yesterday’s atrocity, we do have enough in all other areas of the pitch to have a good season with even a slightly passed it Jose, but only if we are able to field a centre forward constantly. That means that signing someone good enough for our line up so we don’t have to get Harry crocked again is far more key than simply as reserve striker’ and even with all he goodwill I have for Levy (as like you i was reared on the 90s) I think it’ll be shoddy from him if this long-standing issue is not addressed.

Yeah it sounds like it'll be easier to do business than to not, I'm still hopeful we will get what we need. I don't think Levy can hold much responsibility for the result yesterday, the manager had a solid team at his disposal and I think he and the players share the responsibility for that result. Until deadline day I'm not going to get too mad, the only area of frustration for me is deciding to spend his time working on a Bale deal and then getting cold feet. The whole world knew what that deal would look like. Unfortunately we have been here too many times with the "big one" each summer and at a certain point it has to be said that Levy isn't willing to take pull the trigger to elevate the squad at the managers disposal. I hope that is proven wrong. It's not necessarily about Bale but it's the lack of willingness to say fuck it, I'm doing this because the team needs something extra.

Rhys dolman · Sep 14, 2020

We are finished for this season yet again waiting to long to get targets, scatter gun approach no replacements for eriksen/dembele £140 million spent and the team hasn’t improved at all hitchen should of been demoted not prompted just imagine if levy would or just paid the money for Grealish we would have some sort of creativity?

djee · Sep 14, 2020

Bale is not such a complex deal in isolation but it will have other consequences that Levy will have to consider - chiefly wages for his main superstar, Kane. You'd imagine that even paying 40% of Bale's wages puts Harry 30-40k per week less and it is not hard to consider he would want parity. Also, Bale whilst a dream signing for so many reasons, actually does not address the striker issue we have consistently failed to address - do we put a silly amount of money on the Welshman and opt for a budget forward? Signing Bale would also restrict Bergwijn's time and development - one of the few truly impressive signings we have made in years. Where does this all leave Sessegnon - a player that we have splashed 30m on and is seen as a more attacking winger than a LB?

Then what about the creativity - or lack of - behind. Dele is not productive enough deeper and although one would hope that Gio and TN step up this season, would we rather invest in a dynamic attacking mid?

I get the frustration but signing Bale is a luxury - a wonderful luxury that I would love but frankly, money is tight and if it means we have to play a long game and try and squeeze Madrid for an incredible deal at the risk of losing it at a very expensive one - well it is what it is! FWIW, Madrid and Bale have sought a way out for a long time now - there is not a clamour / large appetite for him elsewhere - DL knows this.

Of course, the greater concern is the lack/absence of style or balance within the squad - I don't see re-signing Bale addressing this unless we revert back to AVB football.

Stoof · Sep 14, 2020

I think we all should just remain a bit calm for a sec. We can all lose our rag at the end of the window should it be reasonable to do so.

The information isn't that deals are dead. The very opposite. In fact, you're all told there are five potential strikers - yet you, dear reader, latch on to the one you like the least and decide that one's going to happen. Is that the ITK's fault? Is that Jose's fault? Neither, it's your fault, dear reader.

You're also told that we're in a closer than we've ever been on a Bale Return (save when he was actually playing for us). Tell me again why you thought that deal would be easy. Each ITK has said "I don't think it will happen", but yet at each stage more information comes out that it's actually moving along - all the while claiming that they don't believe it will.

We lost yesterday = negative mood, and negative spin and assumption that a worse possible case scenario is the one that will definitely come true. That scenario only occurs for me if nothing happens - which would be unforgivable from Levy and the transfer committee.

So please can we be calm cherubs. Or Archie will banstick you in the face and bum. Not necessarily in that order.

wrd · Sep 14, 2020

Stoof said:
I think we all should just remain a bit calm for a sec. We can all lose our rag at the end of the window should it be reasonable to do so.

The information isn't that deals are dead. The very opposite. In fact, you're all told there are five potential strikers - yet you, dear reader, latch on to the one you like the least and decide that one's going to happen. Is that the ITK's fault? Is that Jose's fault? Neither, it's your fault, dear reader.

You're also told that we're in a closer than we've ever been on a Bale Return (save when he was actually playing for us). Tell me again why you thought that deal would be easy. Each ITK has said "I don't think it will happen", but yet at each stage more information comes out that it's actually moving along - all the while claiming that they don't believe it will.

We lost yesterday = negative mood, and negative spin and assumption that a worse possible case scenario is the one that will definitely come true. That scenario only occurs for me if nothing happens - which would be unforgivable from Levy and the transfer committee.

So please can we be calm cherubs. Or Archie will banstick you in the face and bum. Not necessarily in that order.

I agree with everything you're saying, but on the Bale point, isn't the reason that all the ITK's claimed they didn't think it would happen was because of their opinion on how Levy operates as opposed to the other 2 parties. So the frustration coincides with the ITK's belief. At a certain point he is his own worst enemy when he himself becomes the difficult part of the deal.

McFlash · Sep 14, 2020

Bale would be the icing on the cake but we need to get the basic ingredients in first.
I'm usually one of the first to say "let's just wait til the end of the window" but this season, with Jose in charge and our needs seemingly so obvious, now is not the time to be faffing about.
Let's get the cake in the fucking oven before we think about decorating it!

BringBack_leGin · Sep 14, 2020

Stoof said:
I think we all should just remain a bit calm for a sec. We can all lose our rag at the end of the window should it be reasonable to do so.

The information isn't that deals are dead. The very opposite. In fact, you're all told there are five potential strikers - yet you, dear reader, latch on to the one you like the least and decide that one's going to happen. Is that the ITK's fault? Is that Jose's fault? Neither, it's your fault, dear reader.

You're also told that we're in a closer than we've ever been on a Bale Return (save when he was actually playing for us). Tell me again why you thought that deal would be easy. Each ITK has said "I don't think it will happen", but yet at each stage more information comes out that it's actually moving along - all the while claiming that they don't believe it will.

We lost yesterday = negative mood, and negative spin and assumption that a worse possible case scenario is the one that will definitely come true. That scenario only occurs for me if nothing happens - which would be unforgivable from Levy and the transfer committee.

So please can we be calm cherubs. Or Archie will banstick you in the face and bum. Not necessarily in that order.

Why let logic and facts get in the way of a good meltdown eh?

Japhet · Sep 14, 2020

Stoof said:
I think we all should just remain a bit calm for a sec. We can all lose our rag at the end of the window should it be reasonable to do so.

The information isn't that deals are dead. The very opposite. In fact, you're all told there are five potential strikers - yet you, dear reader, latch on to the one you like the least and decide that one's going to happen. Is that the ITK's fault? Is that Jose's fault? Neither, it's your fault, dear reader.

You're also told that we're in a closer than we've ever been on a Bale Return (save when he was actually playing for us). Tell me again why you thought that deal would be easy. Each ITK has said "I don't think it will happen", but yet at each stage more information comes out that it's actually moving along - all the while claiming that they don't believe it will.

We lost yesterday = negative mood, and negative spin and assumption that a worse possible case scenario is the one that will definitely come true. That scenario only occurs for me if nothing happens - which would be unforgivable from Levy and the transfer committee.

So please can we be calm cherubs. Or Archie will banstick you in the face and bum. Not necessarily in that order.

Strangely enough, the striker I'd be quite happy with (Diallo) is probably the easiest to get done. The player I'm least bothered about (Bale) seems to be a major spanner in the works to get anything done. I'd happily pass up on Bale if it meant we could have Diallo and Sangare straight in. I've just got a feeling we'll piss about til deadline day when we could be out of a couple of competitions and be told that everything hinged on Bale, and when we couldn't get it done the other deals were already off the table.

Stoof · Sep 14, 2020

wrd said:
I agree with everything you're saying, but on the Bale point, isn't the reason that all the ITK's claimed they didn't think it would happen was because of their opinion on how Levy operates as opposed to the other 2 parties. So the frustration coincides with the ITK's belief. At a certain point he is his own worst enemy when he himself becomes the difficult part of the deal.

Not at the beginning of it all. Of all the parties involved - I would have thought Barnett would have been the biggest issue! Potentially now though; I do wonder if we won yesterday that would have changed his mind.

Mr Pink · Sep 14, 2020

Stoof said:
I think we all should just remain a bit calm for a sec. We can all lose our rag at the end of the window should it be reasonable to do so.

The information isn't that deals are dead. The very opposite. In fact, you're all told there are five potential strikers - yet you, dear reader, latch on to the one you like the least and decide that one's going to happen. Is that the ITK's fault? Is that Jose's fault? Neither, it's your fault, dear reader.

You're also told that we're in a closer than we've ever been on a Bale Return (save when he was actually playing for us). Tell me again why you thought that deal would be easy. Each ITK has said "I don't think it will happen", but yet at each stage more information comes out that it's actually moving along - all the while claiming that they don't believe it will.

We lost yesterday = negative mood, and negative spin and assumption that a worse possible case scenario is the one that will definitely come true. That scenario only occurs for me if nothing happens - which would be unforgivable from Levy and the transfer committee.

So please can we be calm cherubs. Or Archie will banstick you in the face and bum. Not necessarily in that order.

It's not the Bale deal that's frustrating, its the wasting time on it when other areas have been neglected and yet again we're in this position of being not ready before the season starts.

Every window, it's the same mantra of keep calm until the window closes and then it's the same old lines as to why we couldnt get what we need.

Most of us understand the complexities involved but this is a recurring pattern every window.

And why are we wasting time on pipe dreams like Bale? Surely that time and energy would be best served on realistic options.

fletch82 · Sep 14, 2020

PrettyColors said:
What a depressing morning. Feel like the weight of a loss in that fashion yesterday opened up the cracks in our squad's foundation for all to see. I suspect Levy is feeling a lot of pressure now, and we all know what he has done under pressure in the past.

IMO if a striker (even if it is Sorloth the average) doesn't come in by next week we are going to be looking at a worse start to the season than Poch had last year. Something must change even if just for the optics.

Ohh ohh I know this one I think ...
Is it absolutely fuck all ??

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