Jose Mourinho

Metalhead said:

Again though, we did both. I loved beating them but the fact that we went onto win the cup - against the odds considering the set back with Gazza getting injured will be the overriding thing for me. I understand why you would say that though TBF as you said that it's games not trophies that mean more to you.

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Games don’t mean more to me, it’s moments. Adrenaline. Euphoria! I would loved to have supported united when they beat Bayern. Imagine being 1-0 down going into 90 minutes in the champions league final and winning.

Metalhead said:

What it comes back to is that people should give him time. Levy has decided that he wants someone who will win trophies. Levy is not naive - he knows the kind of football that Mourinho plays but has clearly decided that winning trophies is a priority now that we have the stadium. Whether it comes to fruition who can say but Levy calls the shots.

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I think he’s been duped, like a lot of our fans to be fair. That he’s changed. He’s been away he’s seen where he’s gone wrong.

It’s 3 months in and nothing has changed. He still goes into big games with a negative mentality. Getting shown up by fat frank and ole ??‍

Lennon1981 said:

Games don’t mean more to me, it’s moments. Adrenaline. Euphoria! I would loved to have supported united when they beat Bayern. Imagine being 1-0 down going into 90 minutes in the champions league final and winning.

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For sure. Those are great. It's subjective to an extent though. Tony Parks won us the UEFA cup via a penalty save - not flash but it was in the context of a final that resulted in a trophy.

Metalhead said:

I can remember both mate plus the Des Walker own goal when we won the FA cup. That was a joint record for cup wins at the time.

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I think you’ll find we actually went in to the lead, alone, for number of FA Cups won. Pretty ridiculous what’s happened in that competition since

Lennon1981 said:

I think he’s been duped, like a lot of our fans to be fair. That he’s changed. He’s been away he’s seen where he’s gone wrong.

It’s 3 months in and nothing has changed. He still goes into big games with a negative mentality. Getting shown up by fat frank and ole ??‍

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But you only think that he's been duped because it goes against your personal philosophy - you don't believe in 'win by any means'.

SugarRay said:

I think you’ll find we actually went in to the lead, alone, for number of FA Cups won. Pretty ridiculous what’s happened in that competition since

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True. It was such a great trophy back then. Full strength sides, massive build up that started mid morning on the tv. Great days.

Speaking of his time at Inter, I just read the below interview from Jose back then. Think you may find interesting. Sorry if already posted.

"At Inter Milan, my agreement with them was that the first season was to keep that dominance in Italian football – to win the title for the third consecutive time. But, at the same time, to fill the need for the Champions League.

"To do the second part, we needed to bring the team to the next level.

"That first season, I waited and waited until the moment we were knocked out of the Champions League by Manchester United. That was the moment when I told the owner and the sports director: 'For me, this is what we need.'

"We were a team that, defensively, was phenomenal in a low block. But we needed to bring the line 20 metres higher, to make the team much more dominant, to press higher. To help with that, we needed a fast central defender – that was crucial for us.

"The work the club did that summer was phenomenal.

"Sometimes, simplicity is genius and complexity is to hide that you are not good enough. At Inter, we had a simple structure in the club and so, even when my immediate choice, Ricardo Carvalho, was not possible, they found the perfect solution: Lucio. He was fast. Really fast. He would give us exactly what we needed.

"After that, we had to improve our passing quality in midfield. We had fantastic players there: Javier Zanetti, Dejan Stankovic, Sulley Muntari. But we needed to be more dominant. To be more in control.

"For that, we needed something different. Wesley Sneijder was the key for us.

"Inter had not won the European Cup or Champions League for almost 50 years.

"I felt the key moment came against Chelsea in the last 16. To come to Stamford Bridge and win there was the moment people started to believe. Started to feel that we had a team capable of winning it. That moment was the click that the team needed.

"The moment when the psychological wall started to crumble.

"Winning that Champions League was a fantastic achievement. It was not an easy way to do it – we were not exactly lucky in the draws. But we went into that competition with ambition and an incredible team that allowed us to deliver what the club wanted."

- José Mourinho

You can imagine something similar may happen this coming summer, with another quick centre back brought in, along with all the other areas we need to bolster (FBs, DM, striker)

Metalhead said:

But you only think that he's been duped because it goes against your personal philosophy - you don't believe in 'win by any means'.

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I dont think Jose's 'any means' is going to cut it anymore, and he will need to adapt. Winning things at clubs with crazy resources and with a history of lifting trophies is a world away from winning things with Spurs and working with Levy. Not to mention the football world has moved on. Everyone is pressing high now, the dynamics have shifted the emphasis towards scoring goals over not conceding goals.

I think people are jumping the gun assuming that we are guaranteed trophies now just by virtue of the fact he is Jose Mourinho.

CowInAComa said:

I dont think Jose's 'any means' is going to cut it anymore, and he will need to adapt. Winning things at clubs with crazy resources and with a history of lifting trophies is a world away from winning things with Spurs and working with Levy. Not to mention the football world has moved on. Everyone is pressing high now, the dynamics have shifted the emphasis towards scoring goals over not conceding goals.

I think people are jumping the gun assuming that we are guaranteed trophies now just by virtue of the fact he is Jose Mourinho.

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I think that some people are. I've supported the club too long to assume anything but I do believe that every manager deserves a chance. It's hard to imagine that Mourinho would resign or even that he's necessarily facing a situation that he didn't expect and neither do I see Levy panicking. Levy isn't stupid - he follows football, he knows what he could expect when he handed the job to him. People are going to have to accept that he isn't going anywhere for a while.

CowInAComa said:

I think people are jumping the gun assuming that we are guaranteed trophies now just by virtue of the fact he is Jose Mourinho.

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Not sure anyone is assuming that, just acknowledging they're more likely under this manager.

Lennon1981 said:

Do you think any of the champions league squad would swap that champions league run for a league cup trophy? Genuine question as I don’t think they would

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Might as well ask them if they’d prefer to look back on their careers with lots of great nearly moments, or would they prefer a few winners medals on their mantle.

I’m pretty certain what 99% of the answers would be

Ionman34 said:

Might as well ask them if they’d prefer to look back on their careers with lots of great nearly moments, or would they prefer a few winners medals on their mantle.

I’m pretty certain what 99% of the answers would be

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champions league final

Lennon1981 said:

We all want to win trophies, I’m desperate to win something. Just not desperate enough to give up our football principles. I want to win but I want to win in style, we nearly did it too with Poch. Now we’ve chucked it all the way and hired that prick. And if he does win something it’ll be all about him. He will take all the credit.

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Why shouldn’t he? If he turns this team around from what it is to a winning one, who should we credit?

Anyone BUT him by your mindset.

CowInAComa said:

I dont think Jose's 'any means' is going to cut it anymore, and he will need to adapt. Winning things at clubs with crazy resources and with a history of lifting trophies is a world away from winning things with Spurs and working with Levy. Not to mention the football world has moved on. Everyone is pressing high now, the dynamics have shifted the emphasis towards scoring goals over not conceding goals.

I think people are jumping the gun assuming that we are guaranteed trophies now just by virtue of the fact he is Jose Mourinho.

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Well give the guy a chance then!!

The problem with yourself, @Lennon1981 et al is that your prejudiced viewpoint on Mourinho and what he's done in his past is overshadowing the task he has at hand to effectively rebuild a team from the ground up.

Hands up who's enjoying us play right now?! Nobody - that's myself, @Gb160 @Vinny_Sammways_left_peg , @Shadydan - the whole bloody fanbase but at least we acknowledge the fact that his record dictates that he should be given time to construct a team to compete again and deserves a lot more respect than he gets in some quarters here.

Ionman34 said:

Might as well ask them if they’d prefer to look back on their careers with lots of great nearly moments, or would they prefer a few winners medals on their mantle.

I’m pretty certain what 99% of the answers would be

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I don’t know. How many people do you think will watch the league cup final this weekend? 3 mill? 4 mill?

How many people watched the champions league final? 100 million? Profile wise it’s a no brainer. Also how many English players have actually played in a champions league final?

Ben Watson has an fa cup winners medal.. just sayin

I'd be fine with the low block if we were able to muster effective counterattacks. It's pragmatic but it can also be entertaining when it's functioning well. In theory, we've got the makings of a squad that could perform in such a setup.

Lo Celso and Ndombele (if he ever gets himself to the requisite fitness levels) are press-resistant and can release the ball quickly, and we've got wide forwards like Son, Lucas and Bergwijn who can hit teams with blistering pace.

We saw last season in the Champions League how devastating we can be on the counter, and that was before the additions of Lo Celso, Bergwijn, and Ndombele. Problem is that without Kane and with no replacement for Llorente we don't have anyone who can hold the ball up and bring others into play.

This season is a write-off for me. Our recruitment setup simply allowed the squad to deteriorate to a state where we were one or two injuries away from a crisis, and sure enough we've been hit with injuries to those exact players. I'll judge Jose next season once he's got a complete squad. And if he hasn't got the tools he needs, the judgment should be on Levy IMO.

Lennon1981 said:

Ben Watson has an fa cup winners medal.. just sayin

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One more than every single member of our squad.
Honestly cant believe you think winning the FA Cup is something to turn your nose up at, but losing a CL final should be lauded.
Mental.

Lennon1981 said:

I don’t know. How many people do you think will watch the league cup final this weekend? 3 mill? 4 mill?

How many people watched the champions league final? 100 million? Profile wise it’s a no brainer. Also how many English players have actually played in a champions league final?

Ben Watson has an fa cup winners medal.. just sayin

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What actually is this point about lol You've gone to the depths or arguing about viewing figures and English players played in the CL final...all because you're trying to discredit a manager who is known for winning, this is pure and utter filler I've never read anything so petty in order to point score - I mean...what are you even arguing about

felmani26 said:

Well give the guy a chance then!!

The problem with yourself, @Lennon1981 et al is that your prejudiced viewpoint on Mourinho and what he's done in his past is overshadowing the task he has at hand to effectively rebuild a team from the ground up.

Hands up who's enjoying us play right now?! Nobody - that's myself, @Gb160 @Vinny_Sammways_left_peg , @Shadydan - the whole bloody fanbase but at least we acknowledge the fact that his record dictates that he should be given time to construct a team to compete again and deserves a lot more respect than he gets in some quarters here.

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Where did I say we shouldnt give him a chance. Ive never once said that, I fully expect he will be given time. I was mostly engaging in this discussion about what constitute success and what would be a reasonable price to pay for a trophy, given past and present experience of how he operates.

I was engaging in a debate about him on a discussion forum in a thread titled Jose Mourinho. I didnt realise it was a Jose Mourinho appreciation speech thread instead, i just thought it was for debate and discussion. I actually have been pleasantly surprised by his initial charisma and have literally stated that results alone(if not performance) warrant seeing what he can do with time.

though Its good to know we have true supporters like you all who will defend to the death any slur on the absolute correctness of every one of his tactical decisions. its not weird at all you take it so very personally.

JayB said:

I'd be fine with the low block if we were able to muster effective counterattacks. It's pragmatic but it can also be entertaining when it's functioning well. In theory, we've got the makings of a squad that could perform in such a setup.

Lo Celso and Ndombele (if he ever gets himself to the requisite fitness levels) are press-resistant and can release the ball quickly, and we've got wide forwards like Son, Lucas and Bergwijn who can hit teams with blistering pace.

We saw last season in the Champions League how devastating we can be on the counter, and that was before the additions of Lo Celso, Bergwijn, and Ndombele. Problem is that without Kane and with no replacement for Llorente we don't have anyone who can hold the ball up and bring others into play.

This season is a write-off for me. Our recruitment setup simply allowed the squad to deteriorate to a state where we were one or two injuries away from a crisis, and sure enough we've been hit with injuries to those exact players. I'll judge Jose next season once he's got a complete squad. And if he hasn't got the tools he needs, the judgment should be on Levy IMO.

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I've felt since Jose was announced that in all honesty Levy had no where else left to hide if recruitment doesn't turn up more positives than negatives. Not sure about the winter window, but there are some very clear and obvious problems with this team that need fixing. Jose won't be like any other manager when it comes to the procurement of his targets if he has identified them.

All the years those who have struggled with his ways, maybe this next chapter he won't be as 'teflon' as people have had to come to accept.

Interesting times ahead in this aspect.