Our transformation (with avb)

[Spurs_Bear]

I think he trusted his choices but IMO if old Daniel has a problem, its actually buying, getting the deal over the line, that bit where a little bit of sphincter tickling is required. Id say old Danny doesn't like that as much as busting someones balls over a sale. Therefore we have Baldini, same as under Comolli we spent money. The way I see it is, AVB had a first good season, he was pissed at the idea of selling Bale, he had offers from other clubs, AVB came out and stated "get me Baldini and Im happy here" knowing fine well Baldini would get the players signed. Again just my opinion but I think it could be pretty accurate.

Sorry I cant buy that. AVB throwing down the gauntlet to Levy to get Baldini and he'd be happy here?

Sir Daniel of Levy?

No chance.

 

[Donki]

Sorry I cant buy that. AVB throwing down the gauntlet to Levy to get Baldini and he'd be happy here?

Sir Daniel of Levy?

No chance.

Do you think it was Levy's decision? Ok maybe not as in such strong terms, but after the cluster fuck that was the Comolli/Jol debarkle and money spent on wrong uns I would say Levy would be very dubious about another Director or football role. Certainly intresting how little we know about wht actually goes on behind the scenes.

 

[Kendall]

Levy fucking loves DOFs. Comolli was the sacrificial lamb, nothing more than a PR sacking. Comolli got stuff wrong, but he also signed Berbatov, Modric and Bale who made the club a mint.

Levy has always loved the DOF system, Redknapp didn't want it and Redknapp was the man we wanted at the time. It was always supposed to be short term.

 

[Flashspur]

I think the best balanced side I have seen was the early 70's under Billy Nick and the early 80's under Burkinshaw. Bill Nicks side had the great Jennings in goal, two great FB's in Knowles and Kinnear, England and Beal in the middle and a wonderful MF with Martin Peters and Alan Mullery anchoring it along with the wonderful striker combination of Chiv and Gilly.

Burkinshaws team was overflowing with talent in Roberts, Hughton, Miller, Hoddle, Hazard, Villa, Perryman, Ardlies and Galvin plus Crooks and Archibald up top.

We've had wonderful individuals in teams. In the mid 80's Pleat had Hoddle, Allan and Waddle. Later Venables had Gazza, Stewart and Linekar but neither of these teams really had a good balance all the way through the first eleven.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Levy fucking loves DOFs. Comolli was the sacrificial lamb, nothing more than a PR sacking. Comolli got stuff wrong, but he also signed Berbatov, Modric and Bale who made the club a mint.

Levy has always loved the DOF system, Redknapp didn't want it and Redknapp was the man we wanted at the time. It was always supposed to be short term.

Exactamundo.

 

[wishkah]

i like that we are Chumba Wumba-ing our way to success.

"i get knocked down (lose our star player),
but i get up again (get a new star(s) )
never gona keep me down (Levy driviing forward with expansion)"


unlike Villa who remind me more of "candle in the wind"

 

[parklane1]

Levy fucking loves DOFs. Comolli was the sacrificial lamb, nothing more than a PR sacking. Comolli got stuff wrong, but he also signed Berbatov, Modric and Bale who made the club a mint.

Levy has always loved the DOF system, Redknapp didn't want it and Redknapp was the man we wanted at the time. It was always supposed to be short term.

Yep.

 

[ClintEastwould]

i like that we are Chumba Wumba-ing our way to success.

"i get knocked down (lose our star player),
but i get up again (get a new star(s) )
never gona keep me down (Levy driviing forward with expansion)"


unlike Villa who remind me more of "candle in the wind"

 

[Ironskullll]

I think the best balanced side I have seen was the early 70's under Billy Nick and the early 80's under Burkinshaw. Bill Nicks side had the great Jennings in goal, two great FB's in Knowles and Kinnear, England and Beal in the middle and a wonderful MF with Martin Peters and Alan Mullery anchoring it along with the wonderful striker combination of Chiv and Gilly.

Burkinshaws team was overflowing with talent in Roberts, Hughton, Miller, Hoddle, Hazard, Villa, Perryman, Ardlies and Galvin plus Crooks and Archibald up top.

We've had wonderful individuals in teams. In the mid 80's Pleat had Hoddle, Allan and Waddle. Later Venables had Gazza, Stewart and Linekar but neither of these teams really had a good balance all the way through the first eleven.

It's always bemused me that Billy Nick's teams didn't achieve so very very much more. In the early years either side of the double they bottled when in fantastic positions - should really have won the league 4 years on the trot. Then when he built 2 more great sides the best they could do was 3rd. Similarly with Burkenshaw's teams and latter teams.

It's maybe for another day to go into the whys and wherefores but Spurs' history going back well over 100 years is full of ifs and maybes such as these, and I think it boils down to a sort of naivety that has been part of the club's DNA for almost as long as the club has been in existence; both on and off the field, and without which Spurs would have been THE great dynasty of British football.

Now, when I look at the club, I think there is still a little naivety on the pitch but nowhere near what we've been used to over the years. Certainly not off the pitch with DL pulling the strings, and if the naivety does still exist on the pitch then it is in the absence of the cynicism of teams such as Man Utd with their awful gamesmanship, and Chelsea with their cunning professional fouls. I can do without them anyway, but the professionalism that seems to be rolling out of the club nowadays is gathering pace - I know it's easy to get ahead of ourselves but I do think things are finally changing.

BTW, had a tenner at 18-1 on Spurs for the league. Got to be a better bet than Liverpool at 12-1. Less risk, bigger reward.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

The Tactical Autopsy thread was started out of frustration for what I perceived as a lack of coached tactical application. The previous manager spent no time on the coaching pitch, teaching players anything. His free range approach yielded and handful of entertaining games and a bucket load of jamborees that were invariably won by the side with the best player (which often was us).

Like him or not, things are now very different with AVB. Despite being excited by his appointment, he didn't quite have me at "hello" but from Swansea at home onwards, he had me. You could see IMO the evidence starting to appear of coached application. We started to press higher and more coherently, people like Bale (and Lennon) started to see much more of the ball in games and even when not creating were working harder to be involved in game play and off the ball. We played for 90 minutes, we developed a stronger mentality as a group and often turned deficits into gains. Between Swansea and Liverpool (March) especially we saw real progress. You could see what could be possible if we could add some quality and intelligence to the team.

We have used the Bale money to buy several really good footballing options in all areas of the pitch, and now have real squad options of high calibre, we have a coach who has a methodology I like very much, who works every single day with players, teaching them tactically, but just as importantly has that very rare gift of being able to instil belief, both individually and collectively.

We now try to play a pressing, moving, possession based game and regardless of the formation we play with these basic principles in mind. Our club is gaining an identity. Like Arsenal have had for so long, or ManU. And it's one that I like a lot.

 

[Rout-Ledge]

What's this notion of AVB waiting until the end of his first season to be backed? We spent a fair bit last year (almost £60m - Lloris 12, Dempsey 6, Vertonghen 8, Sig 7, Fryers 3, Dembele 15, Adebayor 5, Holtby 1.5) and recouped it all. Same thing happened this year but on a larger scale.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

The Tactical Autopsy thread was started out of frustration for what I perceived as a lack of coached tactical application. The previous manager spent no time on the coaching pitch, teaching players anything. His free range approach yielded and handful of entertaining games and a bucket load of jamborees that were invariably won by the side with the best player (which often was us).

Like him or not, things are now very different with AVB. Despite being excited by his appointment, he didn't quite have me at "hello" but from Swansea at home onwards, he had me. You could see IMO the evidence starting to appear of coached application. We started to press higher and more coherently, people like Bale (and Lennon) started to see much more of the ball in games and even when not creating were working harder to be involved in game play and off the ball. We played for 90 minutes, we developed a stronger mentality as a group and often turned deficits into gains. Between Swansea and Liverpool (March) especially we saw real progress. You could see what could be possible if we could add some quality and intelligence to the team.

We have used the Bale money to buy several really good footballing options in all areas of the pitch, and now have real squad options of high calibre, we have a coach who has a methodology I like very much, who works every single day with players, teaching them tactically, but just as importantly has that very rare gift of being able to instil belief, both individually and collectively.

We now try to play a pressing, moving, possession based game and regardless of the formation we play with these basic principles in mind. Our club is gaining an identity. Like Arsenal have had for so long, or ManU. And it's one that I like a lot.

You wrote the same shit about Ramos, which wasn't happening either, so I'll wait a while before I'm totally convinced.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

What's this notion of AVB waiting until the end of his first season to be backed? We spent a fair bit last year (almost £60m - Lloris 12, Dempsey 6, Vertonghen 8, Sig 7, Fryers 3, Dembele 15, Adebayor 5, Holtby 1.5) and recouped it all. Same thing happened this year but on a larger scale.

I think the notion is more that he wasn't choosing the players so the 'backing part' was down to us spending money we had etc. I don't believe that he wanted Dempsey all that much, nor do I believe he had much to do with the signings of Sigurdsson, Lloris or Vertonghen, as we had been courting them either at the time or much before AVB was appointed.

I'm still not convinced we're getting all the players he actually wants now, it's still transfer by committee but we spent the money we knew we were getting for Bale.

 

[dudu]

I think the notion is more that he wasn't choosing the players so the 'backing part' was down to us spending money we had etc. I don't believe that he wanted Dempsey all that much, nor do I believe he had much to do with the signings of Sigurdsson, Lloris or Vertonghen, as we had been courting them either at the time or much before AVB was appointed.

I'm still not convinced we're getting all the players he actually wants now, it's still transfer by committee but we spent the money we knew we were getting for Bale.

I dont think any manager gets all the players they wants do they?

 

[Spurs_Bear]

I dont think any manager gets all the players they wants do they?

I don't know. I don't know all the managers.

 

[dontcallme]

Levy fucking loves DOFs. Comolli was the sacrificial lamb, nothing more than a PR sacking. Comolli got stuff wrong, but he also signed Berbatov, Modric and Bale who made the club a mint.

Levy has always loved the DOF system, Redknapp didn't want it and Redknapp was the man we wanted at the time. It was always supposed to be short term.

I agree.

Levy wanted the Ramos/Commoli partnership to work out. Jol stated that he wanted experienced players like Distin but he got younger players instead like Kaboul.

Ramos seemed happy with the younger players but results were very bad after a bright start.

The Spurs hierarchy pushed for Redknapp. Redknapp had previously quit Portsmouth over the hiring of a DOF so he was never going to work under that system.

In Redknapp's first window he bought Keane, Defoe, Chimbonda, Cudicini and Palacios. I'm not anti-Redknapp but it was short-term success thinking. He wanted a striker but we had 4 experienced strikers in Crouch, Defoe, Keane and Pav that we couldn't sell.

Now we have a manager who is unlikely to want to buy the likes of a 29 year old Robbie Keane, Scott Parker etc.

He seems happier to buy in younger players and implement them into the squad. It doesn't surprise me that Dempsey and Parker left in the summer.

If we had to sell right now to buy I don't think we'd struggle to find buyers for hardly any of our players. Under Redknapp we did have some deadwood that seemed harder to shift.

The positive is that AVB is showing that he can get results in the short-term. It's not simply a case of saying we have a young squad that will improve. We are doing better now and also have a brighter future.

 

[Rout-Ledge]

I think the notion is more that he wasn't choosing the players so the 'backing part' was down to us spending money we had etc. I don't believe that he wanted Dempsey all that much, nor do I believe he had much to do with the signings of Sigurdsson, Lloris or Vertonghen, as we had been courting them either at the time or much before AVB was appointed.

I'm still not convinced we're getting all the players he actually wants now, it's still transfer by committee but we spent the money we knew we were getting for Bale.

Considering AVB was highly in favour of the Baldini appointment I imagine he's fairly comfortable with taking a bit part role when it comes to transfers. If he was unhappy with his role here then he had plenty of opportunities to go abroad but he's stuck with us.

Harry was given most of the players he wanted who weren't typical Levy signings (Crouch, Parker, Gallas etc.) so I can't imagine levy would sack him for a man who he feels is better placed to deliver his vision for the club only to then freeze him out when it comes to his transfer targets.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Considering AVB was highly in favour of the Baldini appointment I imagine he's fairly comfortable with taking a bit part role when it comes to transfers. If he was unhappy with his role here then he had plenty of opportunities to go abroad but he's stuck with us.

Harry was given most of the players he wanted who weren't typical Levy signings (Crouch, Parker, Gallas etc.) so I can't imagine levy would sack him for a man who he feels is better placed to deliver his vision for the club only to then freeze him out when it comes to his transfer targets.

I can, because Daniel Levy does what Daniel Levy wants.

As was the same back then, all transfers were and are still done by committee if that's what we're lead to believe. All the rumours coming out were that it was Sherwood/Levy that wanted Eriksen, not AVB. Does it matter? No, not really, AVB is the coach, not the manager.

You said he was backed in his first window, I'm saying that we spent money yes, but was this 'backing the coach' or simply investing in the squad? Because as I said Vertonghen/Lloris/Sigurdsson were all courted before we even had AVB on board.

It's not that I don't think AVB is deserving of being backed or anything like that, I like him, it's just that a leopard doesn't change it's spots, and Daniel Levy is certainly a leopard. For me the most intriguing transfer windows are going to be January and next summer, when we don't have a £85m player to sell to fund our spending spree like we did this summer.

 

[parklane1]

I dont think any manager gets all the players they wants do they?

Well if you listen to most managers they would say we need at least one more player, so i guess you could be right.

 

[Rout-Ledge]

I can, because Daniel Levy does what Daniel Levy wants.

As was the same back then, all transfers were and are still done by committee if that's what we're lead to believe. All the rumours coming out were that it was Sherwood/Levy that wanted Eriksen, not AVB. Does it matter? No, not really, AVB is the coach, not the manager.

You said he was backed in his first window, I'm saying that we spent money yes, but was this 'backing the coach' or simply investing in the squad? Because as I said Vertonghen/Lloris/Sigurdsson were all courted before we even had AVB on board.

It's not that I don't think AVB is deserving of being backed or anything like that, I like him, it's just that a leopard doesn't change it's spots, and Daniel Levy is certainly a leopard. For me the most intriguing transfer windows are going to be January and next summer, when we don't have a £85m player to sell to fund our spending spree like we did this summer.

I'm sure you're correct that transfers are decided on by committee, I just feel that AVB may be perfectly fine with that.

I think the view of Levy and the money men will be that we've spent so big this summer to improve all areas of the squad that all that should be required in near-future windows (providing we hold on to our key players) are incremental improvements. We'll no doubt make a bit of money in player sales (Adebayor? Assou-Ekotto? Lennon? Defoe?) and I'll expect us to spend a little more on top of that. I'd hope that if there are good deals to be had then we won't hesitate to spend a bit more money than we set out to. We were about to spend £20m more than we ended up spending on Willian, so if there are players we're keen to sign I'd expect us to spend.