New Stadium Details And Discussions

[L-man]

I don't see how it can be the current stadium construction that's the issue. Over a third of the steelwork is already done and has only taken a few weeks, at that rate all of the steelwork we can possibly do will be done by the summer and all that's left to do will be internal fittings, glazing and MEP, considering we can't put the roof on without all the stands in place. It seems there's relatively very little left to do considering they have 17 months left until completion, if we don't move out surely we're going to have a huge structure sat there with no work left to do for months on end

The issue will be and always will be the demolition of WHL, the excavation for the retractable pitch and getting the south stand up in a short space of time.

 

[danielneeds]

Maybe the Raiders could try using Mexico City as a 'home' for a season before moving to LV. The time and cost involved in travelling to Mexico will be a heck of a lot less than they would be for flying back and forth across the Atlantic every other week.

If there is a London team though, they won't be flying back and forth every week. They'll schedule their matches in bunches. 3 at home, then a road trip. Much like baseball teams do in the States.

 

[thebenjamin]

Two years at Wembley would not be what we want but it would have absolutely no effect on the long term financial security of the club so I do not see it as a reason to delay moving out.
It is clearly better to move out and get on with the stadium allowing an easy finish in two years than to delay and still have a tight deadline in two years just to avoid an extra year in Wembley.

Eh? How could it be better to be at Wembley for 2 years than to stay an extra year at WHL? The end result would be the stadium being finished at the same time.

And surely this isn't a purely financial decision. We are the best team in the league at WHL, and can't win a raffle at Wembley.

 

[worcestersauce]

Eh? How could it be better to be at Wembley for 2 years than to stay an extra year at WHL? The end result would be the stadium being finished at the same time.

And surely this isn't a purely financial decision. We are the best team in the league at WHL, and can't win a raffle at Wembley.

But my point was that it would have no bearing on the long term finances of the club which was implied in the piece you quoted. Personally I don't want to go to Wembley for one season I certainly don't want two.

 

[BPR_U16]

Did say ither day that might not be quite going to plan.

My concern is the team. We currently have a great squad - some at their peak others heading towards it. One year on doesnt need to be too much change but dynamics alter after that. Money will need to be spent on replacements and if current squad see the ultimate aim of trophies for them all being pushed back will any move on.

 

[chaching]

But my point was that it would have no bearing on the long term finances of the club which was implied in the piece you quoted.

I think its about putting pressure on the people involved in the local infrastructure to get a move on.

What he doesn't want to happen is they demolish the ground and then all the authorities to say they are not doing their upgrades now at all and as such the ground is not suitable so we end up with no ground. That is worst case scenario and could be disastous.

I can't see that happening because surely they would just say you can use the new ground but not at full capacity but I guess that would still be a bad situation to be in considering the cash outlay. So to stop either of these scenarios playing out he is trying to make sure the authorities start working on what they have promised. by the the only way he has at his disposal finding a way to make it public.

 

[thebenjamin]

Did say ither day that might not be quite going to plan.

My concern is the team. We currently have a great squad - some at their peak others heading towards it. One year on doesnt need to be too much change but dynamics alter after that. Money will need to be spent on replacements and if current squad see the ultimate aim of trophies for them all being pushed back will any move on.

We're much more likely to win trophies if we stay at WHL another season. The problem is I think many of them are hanging on for the new stadium - so I think if we announce we're not going to be moving in there for another 2 years, we'll see Lloris and Alderweireld push for moves this summer.

 

[Phischy]

Everyone seems very confident over the delivery of our new stadium...

Can I just play devil's advocate here (if not be a total spoil sport) and remind everyone of a few things.

The shell of the stadium is progressing well and yes, the steelworks on the tallest part of the stadium completed so far have gone in quickly. However...

• As has been commented on before a number of times, putting in a big lump of concrete or steel is high visibility progress. it increases the height and mass of the build. However, equally important is the internal and external fit out of the stadium. It is infinitely more fiddly to install all of the services to the stadium and no one will see, from one day to the next, what is going on when the big bulk has been completed. It will almost certainly appear that the stadium looks near finished for months before opening despite the fact work will be ploughing on in all sorts of areas inside the stadium.
• The South Stand itself should be quick, the stuff under it might not be. We are putting in a system which is pretty much unheard-of in the UK. A moving pitch which splits apart. It will need lots of enabling work and permanent machinery to make it operate and the bulk of this will probably need to be in and tested before we can even think about erecting the South Stand. Some of that in terms of timing is conjecture, but the fact is, we can't play there until the pitch is operational and that can't happen until WHL is knocked down, so the timeline on getting all that in and the South Stand up will be tight, regardless of the rest of the stadium.
• It's not just a stadium. We might not need to build stuff like the housing and hotel in order to move in; hell, we might not even need the Tottenham Experience and museum stuff built. What we will need, however, is for everything related to matchday completed. You will all probably remember we put in a planning application for a number of buildings to the North of the new Stadium in the (limited) spaces between the retained housing, Lilywhite House and the Stadium itself. The purpose of those buildings is to provide matchday services including such essentials as a Ticket Office and a base of operations for other services. These will be essential to ensuring the stadium can actually function and although there are contingency options such as portakabins, the club will want to be sure this stuff can be completed in advance too.
• Costs need to be somewhat predictable. The club always said before construction that money will be tight. They are now saying money is fine (of course the party line changes depending on what type of sentiment they want the wider public to have about the build) but the fact is, if financing the build relies on certain projections and there isn't a high degree of certainty, it is possible the club might feel they could have to press the pause button (or at least the 'slow' button) on the build for a period. If that is the case, they would want to be able to do so whilst being sure of having a home during that time. Imagine if we left and the club did suddenly feel that the cost of making sure the stadium is finished on time became prohibitive. It's not just the possibility of Wembley for 2 years but being without a permanent home for even longer if we can't keep building. I am sure that seems a bit 'out there' and I am sure it's more of a possible worry than a likely concern. But the fact is, the club would never admit to something like this unless it became a likelihood, but they sure as hell would want to ensure it's not a position we could ever find ourselves in.
• In addition to the above, the club might also want to be a certain distance down the path with potential stadium sponsors. Trouble in this area could lead to a delay, again, because this money could be important for actually completing the stadium and being without it might put us in some trouble. I appreciate people will point to the financing that is in place, but I would also point to the increasing cost of the build and the fact that we don't know the financial model and what factors and timings are essential to guarantee each stage of the build.
• A more real issue perhaps is my last point and something that isn't under our control, as a club, at all. The works to other facilities around the ground upon which we are able to be sure we can support 61,000 people coming and going at a similar time. The station is an obvious one, but access to the station is important too. If it seems like that could all be put to one side (which, given council bureaucracy could equal years and years of delays) then that could lead to future problems. The club clearly wants to apply the requisite pressure to keep everything on track.

I appreciate the post is long, such is my habit. But the fact is, there is much going on which is not visible to us. Everything appears to be going to plan, but we don't know how the wider environment is developing compared with the club's expectations. It could even be something as simple as not being struggling to find a suitably competent and affordable sub contractor for a particular part of the build, or even a general shortage of labour in a particular area.

We should all remember, Daniel Levy is an operator, he knows what to do and say in order to achieve his objectives and he's not afraid of pushing the boundaries to their limits to achieve his objectives. When we know how he prefers to conduct a transfer, both financially and time wise, why should we expect him to approach dealing with the Stadium and the move to Wembley any differently?

 

[Hoopspur]

We're much more likely to win trophies if we stay at WHL another season. The problem is I think many of them are hanging on for the new stadium - so I think if we announce we're not going to be moving in there for another 2 years, we'll see Lloris and Alderweireld push for moves this summer.

Can I remind you we are actually second in the league and most have signed new contracts (I've seen the photos! ). I would bet that within this country, and also abroad, that we pay our players pretty bloody well. DL's bonus packages will also help.

 

[worcestersauce]

On the current situation, it is not just the structure that is going on at the moment the internals are all going on too, not just the utilities and services but fixtures and fittings and even tiling is being done, I am not convinced that we are losing much time if any.

 

[L-man]

Stevieed on SSC

I'll post more details later today but on my stadium tour yesterday (including a hard hat tour) it was made very clear that we will be leaving White Hart Lane at the end of this season and that the build was on schedule. This was from a variety of people, including one of the managers of the build.

 

[TaoistMonkey]

I have no doubts the stadium will be done on time. Its just the surrounding area out of Levy's control that will hold this up.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

I don't see how it can be the current stadium construction that's the issue. Over a third of the steelwork is already done and has only taken a few weeks, at that rate all of the steelwork we can possibly do will be done by the summer and all that's left to do will be internal fittings, glazing and MEP, considering we can't put the roof on without all the stands in place. It seems there's relatively very little left to do considering they have 17 months left until completion, if we don't move out surely we're going to have a huge structure sat there with no work left to do for months on end

The issue will be and always will be the demolition of WHL, the excavation for the retractable pitch and getting the south stand up in a short space of time.

I can't hunt down my similar post of a few months ago, but it said: do not assume that the main structure comprises a large amount of the work. The substructure takes ages. Then the main structure goes up in a few months. Then there is at least a year of internal fitting out, external cladding, weatherproofing and external works after the main structure has been completed.


This is the quick, easy, dramatic bit. The rest takes longer.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

Great post. I have inserted some comments below.

• The South Stand itself should be quick, the stuff under it might not be. We are putting in a system which is pretty much unheard-of in the UK. A moving pitch which splits apart. It will need lots of enabling work and permanent machinery to make it operate and the bulk of this will probably need to be in and tested before we can even think about erecting the South Stand. Some of that in terms of timing is conjecture, but the fact is, we can't play there until the pitch is operational and that can't happen until WHL is knocked down, so the timeline on getting all that in and the South Stand up will be tight, regardless of the rest of the stadium.

I see no reason of any kind why the erection of the south stand has to wait until the retractable pitch has been constructed and tested. They will just get on with building the superstructure over the basement area that is reserved for the workings and storage of the pitch. Then they can do the pitch when they're ready. I don't see any critical path that requires one to precede the other.

• Costs need to be somewhat predictable. The club always said before construction that money will be tight. They are now saying money is fine (of course the party line changes depending on what type of sentiment they want the wider public to have about the build) but the fact is, if financing the build relies on certain projections and there isn't a high degree of certainty, it is possible the club might feel they could have to press the pause button (or at least the 'slow' button) on the build for a period. If that is the case, they would want to be able to do so whilst being sure of having a home during that time. Imagine if we left and the club did suddenly feel that the cost of making sure the stadium is finished on time became prohibitive. It's not just the possibility of Wembley for 2 years but being without a permanent home for even longer if we can't keep building. I am sure that seems a bit 'out there' and I am sure it's more of a possible worry than a likely concern. But the fact is, the club would never admit to something like this unless it became a likelihood, but they sure as hell would want to ensure it's not a position we could ever find ourselves in.

It's implausible to me that they would ever have a reason to slow down the build. No developer ever wants to slow down the build. It only increases costs and delays revenues. The only possible reason would be if the borrowed funds are not available on time, or if there are issues with breaching the terms of the borrowing. If that happens, then there is a lot more serious stuff wrong than staying at Wembley for an extra season. Probably macro-economic stuff, not just to do with the NDP.

• In addition to the above, the club might also want to be a certain distance down the path with potential stadium sponsors. Trouble in this area could lead to a delay, again, because this money could be important for actually completing the stadium and being without it might put us in some trouble. I appreciate people will point to the financing that is in place, but I would also point to the increasing cost of the build and the fact that we don't know the financial model and what factors and timings are essential to guarantee each stage of the build.

Same points again. it's possible, but it's a disaster scenario. In that kind of context, staying at Wembley for an extra season is not a significant issue. Having a stadium to play in at all is a significant issue. Development is intrinsically risky, but this kind of thing is "sky-is-falling" magnitude.

• A more real issue perhaps is my last point and something that isn't under our control, as a club, at all. The works to other facilities around the ground upon which we are able to be sure we can support 61,000 people coming and going at a similar time. The station is an obvious one, but access to the station is important too. If it seems like that could all be put to one side (which, given council bureaucracy could equal years and years of delays) then that could lead to future problems. The club clearly wants to apply the requisite pressure to keep everything on track.

If there are delays, this is where I think they are most likely, because they are not securely in THFC's control. They are already putting audible political pressure on various parties to get the important ancillary developments moving.

 

[buttons]

Levy in the financial results:

“We continue to focus on ensuring that the future of the Club is protected at all times and therefore, whilst everyone is eager to know if this is our last season at the Lane, we shall only make the decision to decommission our historic White Hart Lane when we have greater certainty on the delivery of the new stadium."

Personally have always thought the club's literature has been pointing towards us not leaving this season, it's clearly too much of a risk that it won't be ready and we'll end up at Wembley for 2 seasons. If they don't know for sure by now, they're never going to take that big of a gamble.

This phrase seems to be creeping into more and more comments on the new stadium. Reason for this? Either:

1) levy and co trying to push the local authorities into sorting out public realm, infrastructure issues or
2) there is now genuine concern we will not deliver the stadium on time.

I don't recall this message being delivered previously, it had always seemed more certain we would be playing away next season?

 

[whitesocks]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...ove-doubt-club-asks-time-clarify-new-stadium/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...ove-doubt-club-asks-time-clarify-new-stadium/

Spurs Wembley move in doubt after club asks for more time to clarify new stadium costs...
Telegraph Sport understands the potential delay is associated to the full cost of Tottenham's new stadium project, which had already seen estimates significantly increase to £800million....

There remains some doubt on the exact final costing, which the banks require to give the green light on the entire project and allow Tottenham to commit to leaving White Hart Lane...

Telegraph Sport last month revealed that talks between Levy and outside investors were ongoing with Tottenham needing to prove that they have over £200m available to go towards the new stadium..

Well that could be a significant problem if true. I'm sure JL could make up the difference but his people too would want firm assurances what the final bill was likely to be.

 

[danielneeds]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...ove-doubt-club-asks-time-clarify-new-stadium/


Well that could be a significant problem if true. I'm sure JL could make up the difference but his people too would want firm assurances what the final bill was likely to be.

I think Matt Law has put 2 + 2 together and come up with horse shit here. No way will any of the financial stuff have been leaked to a journo like him at the moment.

 

[worcestersauce]

Spurs Wembley move in doubt after club asks for more time to clarify new stadium costs...

Say's who?

 

[Goldman]

Old story rehashed with some quotes from the OS. All conjecture.

 

[L.A. Yiddo]

Posted by EJC on SSC:

Ground shots (27th March 2017):

Aerials (22nd March 2017):