Fear of speaking your mind

[Ironskullll]

I think this is an excellent post.

Only thing id add is that I'm not sure we are really playing a 4-4-2. Who tells tv channels how to line up our little player icons on the screen ? Does our manager simply hand in a list of players or does he hand in a picture of a pitch with small uniforms set out in a 4-4-2 ?

The average position that our players are adopting during games under Sherwood would suggest that a lot of talk about formations where we decree such and such is setting out a team as a 4-4-2 or whatever, cannot be so rigid and pigeon-holed.

In truth things are a lot more organic than that.

I'm on my phone so can't post pics but I think Windy has put up maps with average positions for each game

Every time I see those little player icons I think 'shit look at that fucking gap right down down the middle'. Thankfully United had one the same the other day or else we'd have been fucked.

I actually think AVB wasn't besotted by tactics so much as his "system", and was actually tactically rigid - he didn't adapt his system according to the opposition or the players at his disposal, and was too slow in moving on and introducing more positive elements to the team's play once his possession philosophy and high line had started to bear some fruit. I'm all the more puzzled because possession is a weird concept in its own right, and hard to understand, in a way. Every team has the ball almost exactly the same number of times as the opposition. The philosophy of managers such as Rowe and Nicholson was always to treat the ball as a friend - look after it because you worked hard to win it in the first place. AVB seemed to be in that camp with his conservative approach but then we would lose the ball with wild speculative shots from miles out - so inconsistent and contradictory. I'm still baffled by his approach.

Anyway, we'll know more about TS by the end of the season. I have a conspiracy theory that he's been in DL's mind as a possible replacement for AVB for quite a long time and that it just happened sooner rather than later. Exciting times again.

 

[Mouse!]

And part of Sir Bill's genius was to ensure that his sides played entertaining football.

Rated this as funny because your quotes had me imagining what the fuck Bill Nich would think if he could be a member of SC today.

 

[dontcallme]

And here's the obligatory:

 

[werty]

My eyes!!

 

[EJWTartanSpur]

I'm more concerned with how Omega got that selfie off of my phone.

 

[yankspurs]

Agree with everything Omega said besides the last part and that awful picture. MY EYES BLEED!

If we are winning games and in good position, I couldnt give a flying fuck if we were playing 10 men behind the ball the whole game and just go long ball on the attack. This "I have my Tottenham back" is the biggest buch of fucking horseshit I've ever seen. Just fuck off with that bullshit. AVB had one of the highest win percentages of our managers in the PL, got us our highest points total ever in the PL, and got us 4 points against the soon to be champions last year. So much for "the tactical geniuses to go suport that awful club Chelsea." Fucking hypocrit OP.

 

[idontgetit]

Being a long standing member of SC I have stayed away for the last few months.

It seems that there was a furore for mentioning Harry Redknapp, 4-4-2, attacking football, Spurs way. Negative repping and endless abuse hurled at the poster or commenter.
i wrote a post when Spurs beat Man U last season saying I was wrong about AVB. I wasn't. I was right all along.

I was so bored going to WHL this season. I had fallen out of love with the club. The football was dull as dishwater and nothing was happening.
We were so predictable, open to one pass through and bang - goal.

I'm so glad we have our Tottenham back. Forget all this possession stats, text book drivel spouting and look at what happens on the turf.

I expect a torrent of abuse for this but am glad that poison has gone and want TS to succeed to shut all the text book. 4-2-3-1 tacticians up.

Enjoy the game for what it is, fun. Sport isn't worth watching if its Geoffrey Boycott defending an innings all the time - 0 runs after 6 hours at the crease.

I like Petersen, Ginola, Bale, Lennon, Adebayor - genius yet can always let you down too. That's the excitement of the game.

If you like tactical genius then go and support Chelski - dull as hell

Hey man I too have always held back my opinions and been afraid to express myself on this site. Welcome back and I'm glad you're enjoying the revival of classic attacking football under TS!

NAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

What a load of fucking drivel. You start off with crying about getting some neg rep for 'bigging up' the good old Redknapp 4-4-2 (was actually 4-4-1-1 at it's best) days like a fucking pussy and then go on about being wrong about being wrong when you were actually right because of a single game (bloody awesome win) where United had the shooting skills of an imperial stormtrooper in a 2nd half that definitely wasn't a tactical masterclass. Taking a break from wanking in the mirror you then show you have no understanding of 4-2-3-1 that all the textbook technicians supposedly love and finish by inferring to many of those people who stuck around that they should fuck off and support a different club.

I'm actually pretty much in the same boat, I think the game is about glory. I hated AVB playing 4-2-3-1 with the squad we had and detested his reactionary overly defensive approach. I was probably a game away from deleting my account because this season was like seeing your loving childhood puppy get run over by a bus doing 5mph that you'd seen from a mile away. You know what though, I actually put down my thoughts on exactly why I thought it was going wrong (very accurately IMO ), hopefully added some value to the site and wasn't a whiny bitch. But then maybe I'm interested in tactics.

But that's being harsh. I know you're just over the moon to see the club that is our shared and personal crack playing exciting footy, now in with a chance instead of being under the slow inevitable march to mediocrity that it was under AVB. It feels bloody excellent and I love it too! Just voicing my opinion like

 

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

So what. At the time, Spurs were the best supported team in the land. The most powerful and the richest, even when they were in div 2.... they made glory and money bedfellows.... hmmmm I'm genuinely struggling to see the point here... suspect we might be agreeing about something too, but my point is simply that tactical nous doesn't absolutely have to result in negativity.

ps any comment that lets me mention Arthur Rowe, however obliquely has to be a good one

I agree but what do you think tactical nous is?. It seems to me a lot of folk seem to think if you play 4-2-3-1 you've got tactical nous and you're tactically naive if you play 4-4-2. For me its about getting a shape that you're team looks effective in and brings out the best in your better players, so in that respect I think Sherwood has done well and as a side of that, things have looked more fluid and have been better to watch. Conversely AVB stuck Soldado upfront on his own, who became isolated because he couldn't hold it up, we struggled to get the three in behind playing or running off of him, they or Soldado never really looked like working opportunities. Which formation and manager showed tactical naivety/nous?

 

[idontgetit]

Not really. Spurs is about glory, failing with echoes of glory. Trying to entertain with flair and passion.

My point is that is what our club is about. Not 60% possession going backwards and sideways.

There is nothing glorious in accepting failure

 

[yankspurs]

FWIW, I would much rather be playing a 4231/433 as I feel that is what our players are more suited for. But I would much rather it be attacking focused, which it was not this past half season. We have a thin strike force of Soldado, Adebayor and Kane(Defoe does not count. He's useless). We need to have at least 4 strikers in a 442. So if we continue this, we need to buy 2 strikers and loan Kane, IMO. However, it seems like we have gone 433 alot during the game with Eriksen moving inside to the #10 role and Ade moving to the left.

 

[Ironskullll]

I agree but what do you think tactical nous is?. It seems to me a lot of folk seem to think if you play 4-2-3-1 you've got tactical nous and you're tactically naive if you play 4-4-2. For me its about getting a shape that you're team looks effective in and brings out the best in your better players, so in that respect I think Sherwood has done well and as a side of that, things have looked more fluid and have been better to watch. Conversely AVB stuck Soldado upfront on his own, who became isolated because he couldn't hold it up, we struggled to get the three in behind playing or running off of him, they or Soldado never really looked like working opportunities. Which formation and manager showed tactical naivety/nous?

With you all the way. And, really, there is no such thing as 442 anyway. It's just convenient shorthand. As for 'classic 442', well insofar as it ever meant anything it was what happened when you removed the single winger in a 433 and replaced him with another inside player, back in the days when they weren't even called midfielders. The point being that systems and formations evolve continuously, and really shouldn't be separated from other concepts, which unfortunately, don't lend themselves to such shorthand conventions. TS has def shown nous so far, but whereas some people say the jury is still out, I'dsay the jury hasn't even seen a tenth of the evidence so far.

 

[ItsBoris]

Being a long standing member of SC I have stayed away for the last few months.

It seems that there was a furore for mentioning Harry Redknapp, 4-4-2, attacking football, Spurs way. Negative repping and endless abuse hurled at the poster or commenter.
i wrote a post when Spurs beat Man U last season saying I was wrong about AVB. I wasn't. I was right all along.

I was so bored going to WHL this season. I had fallen out of love with the club. The football was dull as dishwater and nothing was happening.
We were so predictable, open to one pass through and bang - goal.

I'm so glad we have our Tottenham back. Forget all this possession stats, text book drivel spouting and look at what happens on the turf.

I expect a torrent of abuse for this but am glad that poison has gone and want TS to succeed to shut all the text book. 4-2-3-1 tacticians up.

Enjoy the game for what it is, fun. Sport isn't worth watching if its Geoffrey Boycott defending an innings all the time - 0 runs after 6 hours at the crease.

I like Petersen, Ginola, Bale, Lennon, Adebayor - genius yet can always let you down too. That's the excitement of the game.

If you like tactical genius then go and support Chelski - dull as hell

You committed the dreaded double-wrongness.

Just thinking about it, my wrongness was even more convoluted - Before AVB went to Chelsea, I thought he was great. Then when he was sacked I thought he was rubbish. Then when we hired him I thought he was great. After the first few games I thought he was rubbish, then I thought he was great again. And then I thought he was rubbish and he got sacked.

 

[spursfaninus]

I think this is an excellent post.

Only thing id add is that I'm not sure we are really playing a 4-4-2. Who tells tv channels how to line up our little player icons on the screen ? Does our manager simply hand in a list of players or does he hand in a picture of a pitch with small uniforms set out in a 4-4-2 ?

The average position that our players are adopting during games under Sherwood would suggest that a lot of talk about formations where we decree such and such is setting out a team as a 4-4-2 or whatever, cannot be so rigid and pigeon-holed.

In truth things are a lot more organic than that.

I'm on my phone so can't post pics but I think Windy has put up maps with average positions for each game

I am a silly American and long time lurker but have to say I agree with this post 10000 percent. Not sure who said we are playing a 442 other than the TV lineup but the last two matches I watched looked like we are playing a very dynamic 433 with CE in a free role.

 

[Mullers]

Being a long standing member of SC I have stayed away for the last few months.

It seems that there was a furore for mentioning Harry Redknapp, 4-4-2, attacking football, Spurs way. Negative repping and endless abuse hurled at the poster or commenter.
i wrote a post when Spurs beat Man U last season saying I was wrong about AVB. I wasn't. I was right all along.

I was so bored going to WHL this season. I had fallen out of love with the club. The football was dull as dishwater and nothing was happening.
We were so predictable, open to one pass through and bang - goal.

I'm so glad we have our Tottenham back. Forget all this possession stats, text book drivel spouting and look at what happens on the turf.

I expect a torrent of abuse for this but am glad that poison has gone and want TS to succeed to shut all the text book. 4-2-3-1 tacticians up.

Enjoy the game for what it is, fun. Sport isn't worth watching if its Geoffrey Boycott defending an innings all the time - 0 runs after 6 hours at the crease.

I like Petersen, Ginola, Bale, Lennon, Adebayor - genius yet can always let you down too. That's the excitement of the game.

If you like tactical genius then go and support Chelski - dull as hell

I gave you a neg rep because

1. You refer to AVB as poison, even if someone doesn't like AVB as a coach, there is no need to refer to him as poison, especially as he had the opportunity to leave in the summer.
2. Being scared to speak your mind in case somebody gives you a picture of a tin of spam or a pic of a thumb going down, you need to man up. It's not like you have a ton of a neg anyway. Abuse you can report, most times the mods will deal with it before it's reported, unless your name is SpursKing.

 

[Kiedis]

Sherwood's obviously done well.

I think it'll be interesting to see if we can continue to consistently pick up results on the road under him.

 

[Vwbottom]

I don't think you should ever be afraid of giving your opinion, there is no judge that deems one persons over another, just people who have similar opinions or opposing ones.

Approach life like this

 

[leonspurs]

Hey man I too have always held back my opinions and been afraid to express myself on this site. Welcome back and I'm glad you're enjoying the revival of classic attacking football under TS!

NAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

What a load of fucking drivel. You start off with crying about getting some neg rep for 'bigging up' the good old Redknapp 4-4-2 (was actually 4-4-1-1 at it's best) days like a fucking pussy and then go on about being wrong about being wrong when you were actually right because of a single game (bloody awesome win) where United had the shooting skills of an imperial stormtrooper in a 2nd half that definitely wasn't a tactical masterclass. Taking a break from wanking in the mirror you then show you have no understanding of 4-2-3-1 that all the textbook technicians supposedly love and finish by inferring to many of those people who stuck around that they should fuck off and support a different club.

I'm actually pretty much in the same boat, I think the game is about glory. I hated AVB playing 4-2-3-1 with the squad we had and detested his reactionary overly defensive approach. I was probably a game away from deleting my account because this season was like seeing your loving childhood puppy get run over by a bus doing 5mph that you'd seen from a mile away. You know what though, I actually put down my thoughts on exactly why I thought it was going wrong (very accurately IMO ), hopefully added some value to the site and wasn't a whiny bitch. But then maybe I'm interested in tactics.

But that's being harsh. I know you're just over the moon to see the club that is our shared and personal crack playing exciting footy, now in with a chance instead of being under the slow inevitable march to mediocrity that it was under AVB. It feels bloody excellent and I love it too! Just voicing my opinion like

Love that post

 

[Flashspur]

a difficult OP in many ways but I am not going to comment as others have done so eloquently before me. I'd just like to say that some of the responses in this thread have been top class

 

[Barry Mead]

Being a long standing member of SC I have stayed away for the last few months.

It seems that there was a furore for mentioning Harry Redknapp, 4-4-2, attacking football, Spurs way. Negative repping and endless abuse hurled at the poster or commenter.
i wrote a post when Spurs beat Man U last season saying I was wrong about AVB. I wasn't. I was right all along.

I was so bored going to WHL this season. I had fallen out of love with the club. The football was dull as dishwater and nothing was happening.
We were so predictable, open to one pass through and bang - goal.

I'm so glad we have our Tottenham back. Forget all this possession stats, text book drivel spouting and look at what happens on the turf.

I expect a torrent of abuse for this but am glad that poison has gone and want TS to succeed to shut all the text book. 4-2-3-1 tacticians up.

Enjoy the game for what it is, fun. Sport isn't worth watching if its Geoffrey Boycott defending an innings all the time - 0 runs after 6 hours at the crease.

I like Petersen, Ginola, Bale, Lennon, Adebayor - genius yet can always let you down too. That's the excitement of the game.

If you like tactical genius then go and support Chelski - dull as hell

I'm glad AVB's gone too, never wanted him in the first place, but other peoples opinions should never put you off posting what you feel. There are no rights or wrongs it's all opinions and everyone will have then and so many will be opposites. Actually having posted on a number of sites I think this one is pretty good and there's generally a bit of respect for posters opinions. There will always be a few who go OTT but why worry about them?

 

[Dannyspur]

We played exciting attractive double winning football under Bill Nicholson using a 235 formation - let's go back to that.

we have the players.

Lloris
left-back Rose right-back Walker
left-half Verts centre-half Kaboul right-half Sandro
left-wing Townsend inside-left Eriksson Centre-forward Soldado inside-right Holtby right-wing Lamela


or something like that